So Gay marriage failed again...

[Akira Fudoh]

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

You dont have to hate someone to disagree with them.

Unless you're only disagreeing with them because you hate someone who happens to be associated with them only by the fact that they share a sexual orientation.

Quote:

voting by the people attempts to keep things fair. Taking the vote away from the people would be a huge mistake. How else would we elect people to office? or anything?

I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but we're already operating under that system. Heard of the electoral college? They're not required to submit to the popular vote.

And I'm not saying this should be the system for ALL types of voting decisions.

all I'm hearing from your argument is "if they dont agree with me, they are stupid"

and dont tell me why I disagree with certain people....you're not helping your case.

So I see you decided not to respond to me at all.

Also, I was referring to the other guy in my post, not you. Stop being so vain.

Reply to what? that you want different voting systems for different voting decisions?
like what different systems?

[Xeno Incognito]

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

You dont have to hate someone to disagree with them.

Unless you're only disagreeing with them because you hate someone who happens to be associated with them only by the fact that they share a sexual orientation.

Quote:

voting by the people attempts to keep things fair. Taking the vote away from the people would be a huge mistake. How else would we elect people to office? or anything?

I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but we're already operating under that system. Heard of the electoral college? They're not required to submit to the popular vote.

And I'm not saying this should be the system for ALL types of voting decisions.

all I'm hearing from your argument is "if they dont agree with me, they are stupid"

and dont tell me why I disagree with certain people....you're not helping your case.

So I see you decided not to respond to me at all.

Also, I was referring to the other guy in my post, not you. Stop being so vain.

Reply to what? that you want different voting systems for different voting decisions?
like what different systems?

BIG decisions (presidential elections, important social matters, etc) should be decided by representatives and the judicial system.

Small (citywide and local) decisions or statewide non-social issues should be put to popular vote.

And you dodged my response by calling me conceited. That's not a rebuttal.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Unless you're only disagreeing with them because you hate someone who happens to be associated with them only by the fact that they share a sexual orientation.

I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but we're already operating under that system. Heard of the electoral college? They're not required to submit to the popular vote.

And I'm not saying this should be the system for ALL types of voting decisions.

all I'm hearing from your argument is "if they dont agree with me, they are stupid"

and dont tell me why I disagree with certain people....you're not helping your case.

So I see you decided not to respond to me at all.

Also, I was referring to the other guy in my post, not you. Stop being so vain.

Reply to what? that you want different voting systems for different voting decisions?
like what different systems?

BIG decisions (presidential elections, important social matters, etc) should be decided by representatives and the judicial system.

Small (citywide and local) decisions or statewide non-social issues should be put to popular vote.

And you dodged my response by calling me conceited. That's not a rebuttal.

But thats just your opinion on how the voteing system should be. That is not how our country is runned.

[M. Angel]

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Unless you're only disagreeing with them because you hate someone who happens to be associated with them only by the fact that they share a sexual orientation.

I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but we're already operating under that system. Heard of the electoral college? They're not required to submit to the popular vote.

And I'm not saying this should be the system for ALL types of voting decisions.

all I'm hearing from your argument is "if they dont agree with me, they are stupid"

and dont tell me why I disagree with certain people....you're not helping your case.

So I see you decided not to respond to me at all.

Also, I was referring to the other guy in my post, not you. Stop being so vain.

Reply to what? that you want different voting systems for different voting decisions?
like what different systems?

BIG decisions (presidential elections, important social matters, etc) should be decided by representatives and the judicial system.

Small (citywide and local) decisions or statewide non-social issues should be put to popular vote.

And you dodged my response by calling me conceited. That's not a rebuttal.

And here's where my logic comes into play. Who would decide these separate systems? What if an issue stretches across boundaries?

If the voting process is applied to all operations by the state and federal issues that span multiple states are left to representatives, as it is now, then we have a stronger representative of the people. The government is only there because the people want it to be there. The only powers it has are the ones granted. We could look at several examples, abortion, the death penalty, doctor assisted suicide, and other social issues that stretch cross boundaries. The only fair system is to have all things voted upon.

[M. Angel]

Torrent_Of_Octane

Kaosgirl

Torrent_Of_Octane

Jay_Flores

I can't really say why they keep failing. I mean, I have theories. Close-minded, over-religious, and bitter people that don't want them experiences the "joys" of marriage.

I can't really understand it. I mean, I used to be homophobic. I mean, seriously homophobic. Any gesture of homosexuality not only scared me, but made me angry. Even lesbians. Which, as a stereotype of being a guy, I'm supposed to enjoy. It just upset me. I was raised strictly Christian and was told it was wrong and you could be condemned to hell for such things.

Of course, once I actually started thinking for myself, I have nothing against gay people. Except for overly-gay men, but that's for their behavior, not because they're gay. Just the lisp and hand flick, I just wanna beat 'em with soggy bread. And lesbians that hate men. I mean, if you have a valid reason other than men only think with their p***s, then I'll probably agree with you. A lot of the time, I dislike my own gender. But not because we have testosterone and an over-active sex drive.

I think I got waaay off topic. My point is, the masses are probably just being close-minded.

And what exactly is wrong with being close minded and holding an opinion? One that they adhere to.

What's wrong with calling that opinion what it is?

I hate you. xp

Got you there Octane. rofl

[Zero Sacrifice]

I believe that there should not even BE a vote. Love is not something someone else should decide for you. I believe in Gay Rights, and I find that America is one of the worst countries with this issue.

[GunsmithKitten]

Got to admit; Octane's points are fairly sound. His kind are the majority, and it's why I'm no longer patriotic to this culture and country. I want out. Period.

[Overexposure]

GunsmithKitten

Got to admit; Octane's points are fairly sound. His kind are the majority, and it's why I'm no longer patriotic to this culture and country. I want out. Period.

Quitters never win Gunsmith.

You should stay, if only to infuriate Octane.

[Herald of Lies]

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Akira Fudoh

Xeno Incognito

Unless you're only disagreeing with them because you hate someone who happens to be associated with them only by the fact that they share a sexual orientation.

I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but we're already operating under that system. Heard of the electoral college? They're not required to submit to the popular vote.

And I'm not saying this should be the system for ALL types of voting decisions.

all I'm hearing from your argument is "if they dont agree with me, they are stupid"

and dont tell me why I disagree with certain people....you're not helping your case.

So I see you decided not to respond to me at all.

Also, I was referring to the other guy in my post, not you. Stop being so vain.

Reply to what? that you want different voting systems for different voting decisions?
like what different systems?

BIG decisions (presidential elections, important social matters, etc) should be decided by representatives and the judicial system.

Small (citywide and local) decisions or statewide non-social issues should be put to popular vote.

And you dodged my response by calling me conceited. That's not a rebuttal.

Why in the world should our representatives decide social issues?

[RAINN Voulunteer]

JayDi Blaze

Raptor Mechanic

Have the country symbatize with you. So far, your not doing it. Not even giving it a shot. MLK and everyone else made the country sybathize with them using speeches, marches, stand ins, and everything else that made the country symbothize with them. You also need a notiable leader. So far, you don't have one yet.

http://www.tirislom.com/img/inglesh.gif

I know. lol.

[GunsmithKitten]

Quote:

Quitters never win Gunsmith.

But if I already never win, there's no problem in quitting. 0-31 is not a good record.

Quote:

You should stay, if only to infuriate Octane

Screw it. The populance wants to agree with him, I'm lookin for the exit. I don't believe in hanging around where I'm not wanted.

[Overexposure]

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

Quitters never win Gunsmith.

But if I already never win, there's no problem in quitting. 0-31 is not a good record.

Quote:

You should stay, if only to infuriate Octane

Screw it. The populance wants to agree with him, I'm lookin for the exit. I don't believe in hanging around where I'm not wanted.

The correct response to a losing situation is to charge.

The populace in it's entirety does not agree with Octane.



The exit could be Canada, since they at least speak English. But what makes you think you'll be more wanted as a foreigner in another country?

[carlinie-the lezzy]

Flabbergasted Breakdancer

Want to know the real reason?

Neither side is informed enough. You have the LGBT side who's main base is roughly only 1/4th of the nation when you add those that support them. Not to mention that allot of them also buy into the "Gay Pride" culture wich pretty much destoys half the arguments that LGBT are just like everyone else. Last time I looked around, straight people wheren't half naked in BDSM gear marching to the beat of Its raining Men or a song by Queen.

It makes those of us that don't flaunt our personal lives around the victim.

Then their is the right side. Though there are plenty of informed voters, this side is almost convinced that Jesus has to aprove of everything this country dose. Most where blissfully unaware of what these bills mean. Most think its a legalization of Gay sex, the teaching of homosexuality in schools, and somthing to do with the "gay agenda". I've met some people on the right who can give me a good reason why they feel homosexuals shouldn't have the right to marry. Though they are vastly out numbered by a huge chunk of the United states who belives everything that is told to them by thier pastors, reprsenative, etc.


In short. The majority of the population either don't care about the LGBT enough to vote for them, or think that any allowance of civil rights would mean that they pissed off Jesus.

I agree.

Too many people mix religion and politics together. Too many people are afraid of God, and they think by allowing us(LGBT PEOPLE) to get married will send them to hell. Needless to say i don't think these people should have a say in the matter, BUT they do. It's sad yes but what can we do? We are a minority and there are way too many people against us. That is what i think.

[Herald of Lies]

carlinie-the lezzy

Flabbergasted Breakdancer

Want to know the real reason?

Neither side is informed enough. You have the LGBT side who's main base is roughly only 1/4th of the nation when you add those that support them. Not to mention that allot of them also buy into the "Gay Pride" culture wich pretty much destoys half the arguments that LGBT are just like everyone else. Last time I looked around, straight people wheren't half naked in BDSM gear marching to the beat of Its raining Men or a song by Queen.

It makes those of us that don't flaunt our personal lives around the victim.

Then their is the right side. Though there are plenty of informed voters, this side is almost convinced that Jesus has to aprove of everything this country dose. Most where blissfully unaware of what these bills mean. Most think its a legalization of Gay sex, the teaching of homosexuality in schools, and somthing to do with the "gay agenda". I've met some people on the right who can give me a good reason why they feel homosexuals shouldn't have the right to marry. Though they are vastly out numbered by a huge chunk of the United states who belives everything that is told to them by thier pastors, reprsenative, etc.


In short. The majority of the population either don't care about the LGBT enough to vote for them, or think that any allowance of civil rights would mean that they pissed off Jesus.

I agree.

Too many people mix religion and politics together. Too many people are afraid of God, and they think by allowing us(LGBT PEOPLE) to get married will send them to hell. Needless to say i don't think these people should have a say in the matter, BUT they do. It's sad yes but what can we do? We are a minority and there are way too many people against us. That is what i think.

Why shouldn't people mix religion and politics together?

[pulchritudinous soup]

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

Quitters never win Gunsmith.

But if I already never win, there's no problem in quitting. 0-31 is not a good record.

Quote:

You should stay, if only to infuriate Octane

Screw it. The populance wants to agree with him, I'm lookin for the exit. I don't believe in hanging around where I'm not wanted.

Perhaps you're doing something wrong? Are your arguments based around the same technique? If so, that's a problem. You should not expect to change opinions if you're not willing to reconsider your own arguments and make adjustments to be more logically appealing. If you can successfully twist around Octane's ideology, and continue to throw in psychological and sociological facts while he's still trying to find support for an opposition; you've basically won. If anyone tries to dodge a question that you impose, then you've clearly outsmarted them. Those who wish to continue their advocation with the opponent even if you point out how they could not answer something that you put forth with clear and respectable information, then they're not worth it.

I still do not believe that you have created arguments with solid sources that reinforce your opinion even throughout the amount of time that you put into many "gay rights' arguments".

Prove that your arguments have changed throughout time. If you cannot, then do not blame society for siding with Octane. His perspective is, generally, popular--I will not disagree. But, to give up and blame popularity only proves that he, Octane, was right from the beginning. If you're not willing to fight and go against the odds, then why are you fighting?