So Gay marriage failed again...

[GunsmithKitten]

Quote:

@GunsmithKitten: stare Try to keep in mind that this is ED. I don't personally care if you curse, but I don't want this to turn into another name calling thread or hating America because people exercised their rights as citizens thread...

You want me to apologize for what I said about American citizens? Forget it! I'm not going to return what's obviously a negative dominant attitude with hugs and kisses from my end. Don't expect me to smile when I'm being slapped in the face.

[M. Angel]

synesthesia_death

I remember when Prop 8 was in vote, all the themes and polls here at ED somehow gave me an optimistic hope that it would approve gay marriage. I mean, I did not think the commercials of the kids with the prince/princess stories and such could have the effect of fear on people it wanted to place. The acting on them was laughable in my opinion, so the seriousness of the message for me was gone with it.

But I was wrong, and well, slightly disappointed.

Does this mean you take the position opposite to mine in that the No on 8 did everything that they could?

@Sumitsu01: You bring up a good point on the deterioration of relationships in American society, however, in order for them to "have what they want" would imply a strong central political base, which I argue to be non-existent on the larger scale in terms of gay marriage. Any thoughts on this?

[EsgarBlackpoxs]

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

EsgarBlackpoxs

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

Cept when push comes to shove on the ballot box. Love us until it benefits us, then we're the corruptors of the youth. ******** this country. ******** it's people.

I vote in favor of gay rights...

Apparently we're bad people sad

SHAME ON US

/fingerwag

WE ARE ASHAMED

[Stygian Soleil]

M. Angel

To this I point to the supreme court case that was televised. There may indeed just be a numbers disposition that caused the loss, (me being one of them), however if you watch it then you'd clearly be able to see why I say what I say.

Clearly the polls suggest that there isn't enough support. The movement shouldn't have to be fighting in the supreme court, but unfortunately it does because of rampant ignorance and bigotry.

[M. Angel]

Yoshpet

Because opponents like you cannot be persuaded by these organized movements. People will have to open their minds, not their pocketbooks, before equal rights will be offered.

If I'm understanding this right then I believe I agree with you.

@GunsmithKitten: You don't have to apologize, as I said I don't personally care (strong believer in first amendment rights) I would just like for the discussion to stay close to my initial topic.

[Sumitsu01]

GunsmithKitten

Sumitsu01

You know, I'm one for saying that gays should have the right to marraige. The only thing about it is, some of them will end up just like the straight married people. Devorcing each other.

The thing that most people don't pay attention to in this day and age, is that there really isn't a relationship that hasn't ended in breaking up or devorce in a long time. All the people are becoming free thinkers, and not really needing a companion on that level anymore. So I say, lets let them have what they want. Make it legal in all states and just watch and see how they turn out.

Believe me, I'm not saying all relationships will turn out like this, but the majority of them will. And it's sad to say, but it's also true.

So, you willing to campaign to ban hetero marriage as well, or is it somehow better when THEY mess it up?

Neither. I'm just saying that it's going to turn out the same way, so why should people be against it? I mean seriously, if you think about it, one of the pioneer couples that fought for Gay Marriage rights in Mass. filed for devorce back here in January of this year. There ain't no telling how many more is going on right now. Seems to me, like they are all falling into the same rut as heterosexual couples.

[Sumitsu01]

M. Angel

synesthesia_death

I remember when Prop 8 was in vote, all the themes and polls here at ED somehow gave me an optimistic hope that it would approve gay marriage. I mean, I did not think the commercials of the kids with the prince/princess stories and such could have the effect of fear on people it wanted to place. The acting on them was laughable in my opinion, so the seriousness of the message for me was gone with it.

But I was wrong, and well, slightly disappointed.

Does this mean you take the position opposite to mine in that the No on 8 did everything that they could?

@Sumitsu01: You bring up a good point on the deterioration of relationships in American society, however, in order for them to "have what they want" would imply a strong central political base, which I argue to be non-existent on the larger scale in terms of gay marriage. Any thoughts on this?

This is also true. The same could be said about interratial marriages as well, though I am not sure if we are hit with as much resistance as the GLBT front is. It's interesting I will say.

[Yoshpet]

M. Angel

Yoshpet

Because opponents like you cannot be persuaded by these organized movements. People will have to open their minds, not their pocketbooks, before equal rights will be offered.

If I'm understanding this right then I believe I agree with you.

@GunsmithKitten: You don't have to apologize, as I said I don't personally care (strong believer in first amendment rights) I would just like for the discussion to stay close to my initial topic.

So then, how are the homosexuals to address your personal issue with their romantic lives? How are they to address religions that forbid their pairing? And stranger secular arguments?

What hoop are they required to jump through before you can leave them be?

[M. Angel]

Stygian Soleil

M. Angel

To this I point to the supreme court case that was televised. There may indeed just be a numbers disposition that caused the loss, (me being one of them), however if you watch it then you'd clearly be able to see why I say what I say.

Clearly the polls suggest that there isn't enough support. The movement shouldn't have to be fighting in the supreme court, but unfortunately it does because of rampant ignorance and bigotry.

But what I'm asking is that, when in the supreme court, why is the representation of the group so poor when, as you say, they shouldn't have to be fighting in the supreme court? Also, if it is due to rampant ignorance and bigotry, shouldn't that make the job of said representatives easier? With all the chips seemingly stacked in the groups favor, why couldn't they pull themselves together?

[Yoshpet]

Sumitsu01

Neither. I'm just saying that it's going to turn out the same way, so why should people be against it? I mean seriously, if you think about it, one of the pioneer couples that fought for Gay Marriage rights in Mass. filed for devorce back here in January of this year. There ain't no telling how many more is going on right now. Seems to me, like they are all falling into the same rut as heterosexual couples.

People are people. Why would you expect any increased piety from homosexual couples than from heterosexuals? The rate would likely be proportionally the same if all homosexual couples were granted marriage licenses.

[Yoshpet]

M. Angel

But what I'm asking is that, when in the supreme court, why is the representation of the group so poor when, as you say, they shouldn't have to be fighting in the supreme court? Also, if it is due to rampant ignorance and bigotry, shouldn't that make the job of said representatives easier? With all the chips seemingly stacked in the groups favor, why couldn't they pull themselves together?

The viewpoint that opposing views are caused by ignorance and bigotry does not work objectively in that group's favor. That very viewpoint holds that there is hardly any favor in the public at all.

We must think critically.

[Sumitsu01]

Yoshpet

Sumitsu01

Neither. I'm just saying that it's going to turn out the same way, so why should people be against it? I mean seriously, if you think about it, one of the pioneer couples that fought for Gay Marriage rights in Mass. filed for devorce back here in January of this year. There ain't no telling how many more is going on right now. Seems to me, like they are all falling into the same rut as heterosexual couples.

People are people. Why would you expect any increased piety from homosexual couples than from heterosexuals? The rate would likely be proportionally the same if all homosexual couples were granted marriage licenses.

This is why I say let them have what they want. Why complain about it? I don't see the reason behind it.

[Stygian Soleil]

M. Angel

But what I'm asking is that, when in the supreme court, why is the representation of the group so poor when, as you say, they shouldn't have to be fighting in the supreme court?

Why would the fact that they shouldn't be fighting in the supreme court at all indicate that their representation in the supreme court would be strong?

Quote:

Also, if it is due to rampant ignorance and bigotry, shouldn't that make the job of said representatives easier? With all the chips seemingly stacked in the groups favor, why couldn't they pull themselves together?

Of course not. Ignorance and bigotry are deeply rooted in this society as a result of years upon years of indoctrination and misinformation.

The chips are very much stacked against them for just such a reason.

[Flabbergasted Breakdancer]

Want to know the real reason?

Neither side is informed enough. You have the LGBT side who's main base is roughly only 1/4th of the nation when you add those that support them. Not to mention that allot of them also buy into the "Gay Pride" culture wich pretty much destoys half the arguments that LGBT are just like everyone else. Last time I looked around, straight people wheren't half naked in BDSM gear marching to the beat of Its raining Men or a song by Queen.

It makes those of us that don't flaunt our personal lives around the victim.

Then their is the right side. Though there are plenty of informed voters, this side is almost convinced that Jesus has to aprove of everything this country dose. Most where blissfully unaware of what these bills mean. Most think its a legalization of Gay sex, the teaching of homosexuality in schools, and somthing to do with the "gay agenda". I've met some people on the right who can give me a good reason why they feel homosexuals shouldn't have the right to marry. Though they are vastly out numbered by a huge chunk of the United states who belives everything that is told to them by thier pastors, reprsenative, etc.


In short. The majority of the population either don't care about the LGBT enough to vote for them, or think that any allowance of civil rights would mean that they pissed off Jesus.

[pockybot]

Whenever I saw a mass group of pro prop 8 people around my area, I gave em the ol seig heil Nazi salute and occasionally would sarcastically say "Im with you guys, next we gotta make sure none of them fags have any rights..and then after that, we can stop mixed races from marrying!"

What, me greatly angered over the prop 8 fascists? smile

Just ******** sucks how people allow their beliefs of some fantasy invisible sky God to push them toward taking away rights from people(or do acts of terrorism, or other crap)