So Gay marriage failed again...

[M. Angel]

I'll bypass my initial reaction of what's new and pose my question for this debate.

What is wrong with the Gay marriage movement?

I mean, come on. They raise more money, they get more media attention, they take their cases all the way to the supreme court, and they still manage to screw themselves over. (No pun intended)

I'll come right out and say that I'm against gay marriage. I have my reasons. I voted for prop 8 and followed the whole controversy and still follow it today, but that's not what I want to know. From both sides I want the views of those who have an idea as to why a group with all the advantages on paper seem to repeatedly fail.

I'll say this again for those that I know will want to flame this thread:

-This is not a debate on whether Gay marriage should be accepted.

-This is not a discussion on whether homosexuality is or is not a moral/religious sin.

-This is not a screaming contest over my or anyone else who posts personal views on gay marriage.

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Case in point: The CA supreme court case on Prop 8 after the election.

The court gave a simple demand. Does the court have the power to overturn an amendment to the constitution and if so, what should it do about the previously legal marriages?

To those who watched all three hours of the preceding s, as I did, you don't need to be told how much of a mess the No on 8 people made of their case. They would contradict each other, get WAY off track, and not answer questions with clear answers. In their moment to shine they blew it.

Second Case in Point: Money

Here was a group in CA that raised, from the start, more money than the Yes on 8 group, yet when they lose they protest the Mormon church because their patrons gave money. The central problem is that they had more money from start to finish, yet they make this assumption.

Lets look to yesterday's election. In Maine the Pro Gay marriage people made around 4 million for their cause, against the about 2.5 million that the opposition had. That's nearly twice as much.

I'll admit that I haven't followed the Maine elections, but I assume that they were similar to the CA ones, just on a smaller scale. If I am wrong with this than feel free to correct me. So now I put the topic out to you all.

Why can't the "official" leaders of this movement take what they have and use it to the best of their abilities?

[GunsmithKitten]

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

[Amelia Hood]

What's hard to judge in these cases is how much of a loss by popular vote can be blamed on the losing party versus the voting base itself. For example, I'm pretty confident that if something of roughly the same nature as Prop 8 was put to vote here and the No side didn't even show up, it still wouldn't have passed.

[Vice Admiral Romeo Mike]

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

[GunsmithKitten]

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

Cept when push comes to shove on the ballot box. Love us until it benefits us, then we're the corruptors of the youth. ******** this country. ******** it's people.

[Vice Admiral Romeo Mike]

GunsmithKitten

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

Cept when push comes to shove on the ballot box. Love us until it benefits us, then we're the corruptors of the youth. ******** this country. ******** it's people.

I vote in favor of gay rights...

[synesthesia_death]

I remember when Prop 8 was in vote, all the themes and polls here at ED somehow gave me an optimistic hope that it would approve gay marriage. I mean, I did not think the commercials of the kids with the prince/princess stories and such could have the effect of fear on people it wanted to place. The acting on them was laughable in my opinion, so the seriousness of the message for me was gone with it.

But I was wrong, and well, slightly disappointed.

[Sumitsu01]

You know, I'm one for saying that gays should have the right to marraige. The only thing about it is, some of them will end up just like the straight married people. Devorcing each other.

The thing that most people don't pay attention to in this day and age, is that there really isn't a relationship that hasn't ended in breaking up or devorce in a long time. All the people are becoming free thinkers, and not really needing a companion on that level anymore. So I say, lets let them have what they want. Make it legal in all states and just watch and see how they turn out.

Believe me, I'm not saying all relationships will turn out like this, but the majority of them will. And it's sad to say, but it's also true.

[Stygian Soleil]

Why does it have to be "they ******** up?" There just aren't enough people in this country that support gay marriage.

[M. Angel]

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

Well it's good to see that there was a bit more organization in Maine. Though I wonder if you could be more specific on that aspect. Not trying to insult any feelings, I just wonder how the two were different so I know what I'm talking about.

@Amelia: True, it is hard to judge. I still stand by my observations that the movement shot itself in the foot several times though and that made a meaningful impact.

@GunsmithKitten: stare Try to keep in mind that this is ED. I don't personally care if you curse, but I don't want this to turn into another name calling thread or hating America because people exercised their rights as citizens thread...

[M. Angel]

Stygian Soleil

Why does it have to be "they ******** up?" There just aren't enough people in this country that support gay marriage.

To this I point to the supreme court case that was televised. There may indeed just be a numbers disposition that caused the loss, (me being one of them), however if you watch it then you'd clearly be able to see why I say what I say.

[EsgarBlackpoxs]

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

Cept when push comes to shove on the ballot box. Love us until it benefits us, then we're the corruptors of the youth. ******** this country. ******** it's people.

I vote in favor of gay rights...

Apparently we're bad people sad

[GunsmithKitten]

Sumitsu01

You know, I'm one for saying that gays should have the right to marraige. The only thing about it is, some of them will end up just like the straight married people. Devorcing each other.

The thing that most people don't pay attention to in this day and age, is that there really isn't a relationship that hasn't ended in breaking up or devorce in a long time. All the people are becoming free thinkers, and not really needing a companion on that level anymore. So I say, lets let them have what they want. Make it legal in all states and just watch and see how they turn out.

Believe me, I'm not saying all relationships will turn out like this, but the majority of them will. And it's sad to say, but it's also true.

So, you willing to campaign to ban hetero marriage as well, or is it somehow better when THEY mess it up?

[Vice Admiral Romeo Mike]

EsgarBlackpoxs

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Vice Admiral Romeo Mike

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Actually, things were a lot better organized and thought out in Maine. And we still lost it.

Octane was right, though. We're simply not wanted int his country. Our benefit is a kiss of death to almost any law out there.

I want em! Not for myself necessarily, but to have as countrymen and women, sure! Americans are Americans, no matter what!

Cept when push comes to shove on the ballot box. Love us until it benefits us, then we're the corruptors of the youth. ******** this country. ******** it's people.

I vote in favor of gay rights...

Apparently we're bad people sad

SHAME ON US

/fingerwag

[Yoshpet]

Because opponents like you cannot be persuaded by these organized movements. People will have to open their minds, not their pocketbooks, before equal rights will be offered.