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What the healthcare system needs is to have these stupid regulations (Healthcare companies have to have a certain number of things in their healthcare policies) lifted so that I could buy coverage for what I need. The only things I need are Emergency Room and Doctor visits and Dental. That's it really, don't want anything else. That policy would be far cheaper than the 20-30 things that Healthcare companies are forced to have in every policy. I am a firm believer that competition makes better products for cheaper. Complete deregulation breeds monopolies and Socialism is doomed to turn into Communism as people become dependent on the system eventually which is the loss of all competition. So neither polar opposite (Which though Laissez Faire and Communism are always presented as polar opposites, they breed the same things: Oppressive Fascist Regimes) is a really viable option. One thing that does need to be done is there needs to be some way for people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage. Can't have people dying in the streets. I understand why insurance companies won't take someone with pre-existing conditions, it's just shelling out money. Bad business. But these people need help from somewhere and we shouldn't leave our own out to dry like that. But I don't like the idea of being forced to use one plan or another. If I don't like the coverage I'm getting I want to be able to take my money elsewhere and get better coverage.
Jessi Danger
When I needed stitches in Spain I got pretty good care. I didn't have a long wait at all or anything like that.


My school teacher just got back from Spain and said he had to wait until 3 in the morning to get into the ER when his wife fell on her head that evening... And that when they performed an X-ray, the doctor stood in the midst of any radiation without going behind a wall and gave her some pain pills without doing much else.

He seemed a bit shocked after the fact, and proceeded to say how he was happy with the system now after experiencing their medical care.
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They do. But they can only get so much, on government dime, before it starts to hurt the rest of us. That money has to come from somewhere, you know...



Because life isn't fair.


That is the worst phrase ever and a total cop out, why cant life be fair? why cant everyone have the same chances at life?


*shrug* Couldn't tell you. But they can't.

I don't get to have a billion dollar bank account, a yacht, Ferrari, mansion overlooking the beach, and a harem of sexy women to bed at my leisure. Someone out there does, but it sure as ******** ain't me.

Is that fair? Nope.

Does it matter? Nope.

We don't get to choose the cards we're dealt. We just have to make the best hand we can, with them. And no, Kenny Rodgers was wrong about "every hand's a winner".


so being healthy throughout your life is just as important as having a ferrari, big bucks and lots of women? doesn't that seem that america is being killed by the american dream. Basic provisions shouldnt include life and death. Everyone should have a basic standard of living. People who inevitably abuse such a system can be punished and fined. but then everyone will have a good productive life, earning money to pay taxes to keep the country running. England has a fantastic system where you pay about $10 per medicine you receive. this is enough to stop prescriptions being taken willy nilly and covers part of a huge cost for medicines.

I can't accept "people with no money should not be allowed medical care when they are ill because I don't have a ferrari" as a sane or salient point


I think you're missing the core of his argument. He's arguing from the "I don't care about other people" position.

To him, as long as HE can afford healthcare, it's good enough. To think otherwise would be EVIL SOCIALIST COMMUNIST NAZI SOMETHINGSOMETHING.

There's an adage about this stuff.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


I believe Humon illustrated it with some humor(stereotype warning!) [Link]
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They do. But they can only get so much, on government dime, before it starts to hurt the rest of us. That money has to come from somewhere, you know...



Because life isn't fair.


That is the worst phrase ever and a total cop out, why cant life be fair? why cant everyone have the same chances at life?


*shrug* Couldn't tell you. But they can't.

I don't get to have a billion dollar bank account, a yacht, Ferrari, mansion overlooking the beach, and a harem of sexy women to bed at my leisure. Someone out there does, but it sure as ******** ain't me.

Is that fair? Nope.

Does it matter? Nope.

We don't get to choose the cards we're dealt. We just have to make the best hand we can, with them. And no, Kenny Rodgers was wrong about "every hand's a winner".


so being healthy throughout your life is just as important as having a ferrari, big bucks and lots of women? doesn't that seem that america is being killed by the american dream. Basic provisions shouldnt include life and death. Everyone should have a basic standard of living. People who inevitably abuse such a system can be punished and fined. but then everyone will have a good productive life, earning money to pay taxes to keep the country running. England has a fantastic system where you pay about $10 per medicine you receive. this is enough to stop prescriptions being taken willy nilly and covers part of a huge cost for medicines.

I can't accept "people with no money should not be allowed medical care when they are ill because I don't have a ferrari" as a sane or salient point


I think you're missing the core of his argument. He's arguing from the "I don't care about other people" position.

To him, as long as HE can afford healthcare, it's good enough. To think otherwise would be EVIL SOCIALIST COMMUNIST NAZI SOMETHINGSOMETHING.

There's an adage about this stuff.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


Nice try, but you're wrong. You're right that I don't care so much about other people, but my "argument" is, that government funded healthcare can only do so much, because it's funded by government tax dollars. Private Healthcare is more flexible, because it's essentially paid for by the individual. Presumably paying more in, than taking out. Private insurers can offer more, better services. And that's fine. Because so long as that's true, the only people USING government care, would be the people who honestly have to, and not just the cheap-a** scumbags that just want to weasel out of paying the tab.

Everyone still has access to the care they actually need. Just not necessarily the things they superficially want.


It is not more flexible it is the same how can using a different source of money change the goal or the structure of an organisation providing healthcare
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Someone just tell me one thing:America is better off in terms of health care/hospital standards than say, Mexico, right? Please tell me that America is not worse off than a country such as that emotion_facepalm
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*shrug* Couldn't tell you. But they can't.

I don't get to have a billion dollar bank account, a yacht, Ferrari, mansion overlooking the beach, and a harem of sexy women to bed at my leisure. Someone out there does, but it sure as ******** ain't me.

Is that fair? Nope.

Does it matter? Nope.

We don't get to choose the cards we're dealt. We just have to make the best hand we can, with them. And no, Kenny Rodgers was wrong about "every hand's a winner".


so being healthy throughout your life is just as important as having a ferrari, big bucks and lots of women? doesn't that seem that america is being killed by the american dream. Basic provisions shouldnt include life and death. Everyone should have a basic standard of living. People who inevitably abuse such a system can be punished and fined. but then everyone will have a good productive life, earning money to pay taxes to keep the country running. England has a fantastic system where you pay about $10 per medicine you receive. this is enough to stop prescriptions being taken willy nilly and covers part of a huge cost for medicines.

I can't accept "people with no money should not be allowed medical care when they are ill because I don't have a ferrari" as a sane or salient point


I think you're missing the core of his argument. He's arguing from the "I don't care about other people" position.

To him, as long as HE can afford healthcare, it's good enough. To think otherwise would be EVIL SOCIALIST COMMUNIST NAZI SOMETHINGSOMETHING.

There's an adage about this stuff.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


Nice try, but you're wrong. You're right that I don't care so much about other people, but my "argument" is, that government funded healthcare can only do so much, because it's funded by government tax dollars. Private Healthcare is more flexible, because it's essentially paid for by the individual. Presumably paying more in, than taking out. Private insurers can offer more, better services. And that's fine. Because so long as that's true, the only people USING government care, would be the people who honestly have to, and not just the cheap-a** scumbags that just want to weasel out of paying the tab.

Everyone still has access to the care they actually need. Just not necessarily the things they superficially want.


It is not more flexible it is the same how can using a different source of money change the goal or the structure of an organisation providing healthcare


I don't know. But it can.
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The American people have been fooled into thinking that Universal Healthcare would mean waiting in line for 3 weeks for a bottle of cough syrup, despite functioning systems in other parts of the world.

Many of them presume that since they have coverage right now, there's no need to change anything. They don't seem to realize there is an enormous population that has no coverage.


to be fair, there are those as would ensure such was the only form of universal healthcare we could get
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We'd either have to pay higher taxes or wait until our government can eliminate some of it's debt and budget a bit better. It'd be a costly program for sure.
Maybe you'd just be paying what you would OTHERWISE spend on private health insurance and medical expenses those companies go through great trouble to find a reason they can refuse to pay. The government-run healthcare system where I live works perfectly, I see not a reason why you shouldn't have the same care I do.


and those as can't afford private healthcare? what of their tax increase?
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We'd either have to pay higher taxes or wait until our government can eliminate some of it's debt and budget a bit better. It'd be a costly program for sure.
Maybe you'd just be paying what you would OTHERWISE spend on private health insurance and medical expenses those companies go through great trouble to find a reason they can refuse to pay. The government-run healthcare system where I live works perfectly, I see not a reason why you shouldn't have the same care I do.


and those as can't afford private healthcare? what of their tax increase?
Well, if they don't have to cover medical expenses out of pocket and you keep the PERCENTAGE tax (where different incomes pay different amounts) rather than a flat-line tax (where everyone pays the same amount), it shouldn't be harmful. Besides, don't the wealthiest individuals get all the money in your country? Why not raise their taxes a bit more? They can afford it. Some of those who fall into the previously-mentioned group cannot. Why give the wealthy tax cuts and expect the country to pull itself magically out of debt on its own?
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We'd either have to pay higher taxes or wait until our government can eliminate some of it's debt and budget a bit better. It'd be a costly program for sure.
Maybe you'd just be paying what you would OTHERWISE spend on private health insurance and medical expenses those companies go through great trouble to find a reason they can refuse to pay. The government-run healthcare system where I live works perfectly, I see not a reason why you shouldn't have the same care I do.


and those as can't afford private healthcare? what of their tax increase?
Well, if they don't have to cover medical expenses out of pocket and you keep the PERCENTAGE tax (where different incomes pay different amounts) rather than a flat-line tax (where everyone pays the same amount), it shouldn't be harmful. Besides, don't the wealthiest individuals get all the money in your country? Why not raise their taxes a bit more? They can afford it. Some of those who fall into the previously-mentioned group cannot. Why give the wealthy tax cuts and expect the country to pull itself magically out of debt on its own?


well, that's the catch . . . I actually have no expenditure on healthcare. I can't afford it. when I get sick, I suffer through it. I avoid injuries. last time I was in a hospital was when I worked there back in '08.

there really is no way to reduce my healthcare expenditures, so there's also no way to increase my taxes by that amount, unless the amount of the increase is less than or equal to 0. so, any increase in my taxes is money coming out of my food or housing or fuel budget, meaning I gain the ability to go to the hospital, but I lose out on the ability to eat as I do, or cover my utilities as they are, or do my job as I do, since my job involves the use of gasoline. now, my utilities cost are already at a bare-bones minimum. my internet could go, but I lose out on money-making opportunities. same if I give up my phone.

now, do you imagine I'm unique, or even the minority of those without healthcare?
At the risk of rolling a live hand grenade into the debate, sometimes I get the impression that the reason the United States is so reluctant to provide such a service is that a lot of white Americans don't want their tax moneys to go to shiftless nigras.
Your statistics are wrong.
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I do think our health care needs a bit of reforming, but it probably won't go "universal" any time soon.

I don't think it should be so difficult for someone to get insurance if they have a pre-existing medical condition. That's the problem with privatized insurance; they will fight tooth-and-nail to keep from paying your medical expenses. Not only that, but some medications are insanely high in price. My sister's Advair costs her over $200. She's supposed to use it twice a day for 30 days, but she's had to resort to taking it once a day for 60 days to cut costs. That's ridiculous to me.

But the reason why I don't think it will go universal any time soon, or at least...without some kind of "conditioning" is because of taxes. I highly doubt that people in the United States would want to pay taxes anywhere close to how much they pay in Canada, and I also doubt people will make a giant fuss (like they are already) if said tax dollars go to the coverage of a procedure or medication (birth control, anyone?) someone has religious/moral convictions against.
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I can only imagine how worse our money problem will spread, jesus lawdy.

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