Should Men be Allowed to Renounce Paternity?

[TarablyTired]

The New Wineskin

That is what the proposal is for; instead of denying the woman the right to keep the child is the father wishes not to, which is what appears to be what you're arguing - that the father's say has equal wait in the decision of the woman's body - both parties are given the ability to remove themselves from the child if they wish to do so. What you're arguing is that both parties have a say in the process of pregnancy, which is essentially what the original poster is trying to say as well. Or at least, that is what I go out of it.

Not exactly what I'm saying but I'll try to be a bit more clear. Child support is for the child, regardless of whether a person wanted that kid. Since consenting adults know one of the potential outcomes of sex is pregnancy, both parties should pay for supporting the child should the mother decide to have the baby and keep it. Should she decide to terminate the pregnancy, he should pay for half the procedure. Adoption is a choice in which both parties should have a say.

If a woman is willing to carry a child to term and give it up to the father, she should pay the support. I'd also add it's a really good idea to ask people how they feel about these issues before screwing them.

[marshmallowcreampie]

Mannequin Harpsichord

What if the woman hides the pregnancy from the man? What if the man claims that he was never informed of the pregnancy even if he was?

If a "financial abortion" system was set up, they'd take this into account. The man would be notified of the pregnancy and THEN he gets time to decide what he wants to do. If necessary, the woman could have a legal authority contact the man to notify him of the pregnancy, so he wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

freeziereezie

Mannequin Harpsichord

How is the man supposed to prove that she didn't tell him? How is the woman supposed to prove that she did tell him?

That's why the fiscal abortion should be able to be carried out until a certain time after the birth takes place. It wouldn't be a get out of baby free card that can be cashed in at any moment.

If a woman isn't sure if she's getting support from the father, then she should have an abortion, or she should put it up for adoption. Plain and simple

Okay so here's a scenario. Woman gets pregnant and tells the father about it. He says to keep it, that they will get through this together somehow. The baby is born and suddenly the father is nowhere to be found. They go to court for child support and he claims that he was never informed about the child and asks for a financial abortion. How does the woman prove to the court that she did in fact tell him and that he should not qualify for a late financial abortion?

She could always talk about the baby with him through text or email. Like, after she's told him, it's perfectly okay to mention the baby in email, which would be accepted as evidence

He could say that he doesn't use that email. Or if the woman is conniving could send the email purposely to an email he doesn't use. As long as he never responds to an email mentioning the baby he could claim he never received the email. But that is a good idea.

No, but the email provider could check if he's read the email or not. They store if you've read an email and when you read it. Also, you can actually set an email to alert you when it's been read (I'm not too clear on how, but I've used it before), so you can actually get an email when they've read theirs

I guess that's true. But couldn't he still claim that he knew about the baby but that she said she was going to abort or adopt it out (making no need for a financial abortion)? I guess he wouldn't have any proof, but it's not as easy to make small talk about abortion. I wonder how this would bode across states (move to another state and file for child support or financial abortion). States hate talking to each other, I've known of several people who have had their children (whom they had full custody of) go visit their other parent and have the other parent file for full custody in another state and win. rolleyes

[x-Garethp-x]

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

Okay so here's a scenario. Woman gets pregnant and tells the father about it. He says to keep it, that they will get through this together somehow. The baby is born and suddenly the father is nowhere to be found. They go to court for child support and he claims that he was never informed about the child and asks for a financial abortion. How does the woman prove to the court that she did in fact tell him and that he should not qualify for a late financial abortion?

She could always talk about the baby with him through text or email. Like, after she's told him, it's perfectly okay to mention the baby in email, which would be accepted as evidence

He could say that he doesn't use that email. Or if the woman is conniving could send the email purposely to an email he doesn't use. As long as he never responds to an email mentioning the baby he could claim he never received the email. But that is a good idea.

No, but the email provider could check if he's read the email or not. They store if you've read an email and when you read it. Also, you can actually set an email to alert you when it's been read (I'm not too clear on how, but I've used it before), so you can actually get an email when they've read theirs

I guess that's true. But couldn't he still claim that he knew about the baby but that she said she was going to abort or adopt it out (making no need for a financial abortion)? I guess he wouldn't have any proof, but it's not as easy to make small talk about abortion. I wonder how this would bode across states (move to another state and file for child support or financial abortion). States hate talking to each other, I've known of several people who have had their children (whom they had full custody of) go visit their other parent and have the other parent file for full custody in another state and win. rolleyes

With no proof, there's nothing he could do. Even if it were true. But if they have a conversation over email, or it's acknowledged over email...

Also, I find it stupid how in America your states have so much power. Things like custody and legal age and abortion should be legislated on the federal level, not state

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

marshmallowcreampie

Mannequin Harpsichord

What if the woman hides the pregnancy from the man? What if the man claims that he was never informed of the pregnancy even if he was?

If a "financial abortion" system was set up, they'd take this into account. The man would be notified of the pregnancy and THEN he gets time to decide what he wants to do. If necessary, the woman could have a legal authority contact the man to notify him of the pregnancy, so he wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

So she'd have to go through a court (and pay all the fees) and have him officially served? The woman would have to know ahead of time that he was going to jump ship. Would this financial abortion apply to married couples?

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

Okay so here's a scenario. Woman gets pregnant and tells the father about it. He says to keep it, that they will get through this together somehow. The baby is born and suddenly the father is nowhere to be found. They go to court for child support and he claims that he was never informed about the child and asks for a financial abortion. How does the woman prove to the court that she did in fact tell him and that he should not qualify for a late financial abortion?

She could always talk about the baby with him through text or email. Like, after she's told him, it's perfectly okay to mention the baby in email, which would be accepted as evidence

He could say that he doesn't use that email. Or if the woman is conniving could send the email purposely to an email he doesn't use. As long as he never responds to an email mentioning the baby he could claim he never received the email. But that is a good idea.

No, but the email provider could check if he's read the email or not. They store if you've read an email and when you read it. Also, you can actually set an email to alert you when it's been read (I'm not too clear on how, but I've used it before), so you can actually get an email when they've read theirs

I guess that's true. But couldn't he still claim that he knew about the baby but that she said she was going to abort or adopt it out (making no need for a financial abortion)? I guess he wouldn't have any proof, but it's not as easy to make small talk about abortion. I wonder how this would bode across states (move to another state and file for child support or financial abortion). States hate talking to each other, I've known of several people who have had their children (whom they had full custody of) go visit their other parent and have the other parent file for full custody in another state and win. rolleyes

With no proof, there's nothing he could do. Even if it were true. But if they have a conversation over email, or it's acknowledged over email...

Also, I find it stupid how in America your states have so much power. Things like custody and legal age and abortion should be legislated on the federal level, not state

I agree about the state thing. But I guess it's better than trying to get the whole country to agree on everything. If it was up to the entire country I think abortion and same-sex marriage would be illegal. So at least we have the benefit of being legal in some places at least.

Would this financial abortion be available to married couples (if the man does not want the child and will make it the full responsibility of the woman)?

[x-Garethp-x]

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

He could say that he doesn't use that email. Or if the woman is conniving could send the email purposely to an email he doesn't use. As long as he never responds to an email mentioning the baby he could claim he never received the email. But that is a good idea.

No, but the email provider could check if he's read the email or not. They store if you've read an email and when you read it. Also, you can actually set an email to alert you when it's been read (I'm not too clear on how, but I've used it before), so you can actually get an email when they've read theirs

I guess that's true. But couldn't he still claim that he knew about the baby but that she said she was going to abort or adopt it out (making no need for a financial abortion)? I guess he wouldn't have any proof, but it's not as easy to make small talk about abortion. I wonder how this would bode across states (move to another state and file for child support or financial abortion). States hate talking to each other, I've known of several people who have had their children (whom they had full custody of) go visit their other parent and have the other parent file for full custody in another state and win. rolleyes

With no proof, there's nothing he could do. Even if it were true. But if they have a conversation over email, or it's acknowledged over email...

Also, I find it stupid how in America your states have so much power. Things like custody and legal age and abortion should be legislated on the federal level, not state

I agree about the state thing. But I guess it's better than trying to get the whole country to agree on everything. If it was up to the entire country I think abortion and same-sex marriage would be illegal. So at least we have the benefit of being legal in some places at least.

Would this financial abortion be available to married couples (if the man does not want the child and will make it the full responsibility of the woman)?

Well, the thing with married couples is that their assets are joined anyway. And even if he does "Give up paternity" there's a legality where if you act as someones dad for long enough, you will legally be considered their dad regardless of biological connection. So through De Facto Parenthood, unless they break up, he's going to be the father anyway. By acting like a father, you become the father basically

[marshmallowcreampie]

Mannequin Harpsichord

So she'd have to go through a court (and pay all the fees) and have him officially served? The woman would have to know ahead of time that he was going to jump ship. Would this financial abortion apply to married couples?

Not necessarily, she could send him an email or text and save it, so if he tries to renounce paternity after the deadline she can prove he was told about it. Or maybe record herself delivering the news. Or have him sign a document stating he knew. Not sure how this would apply to married couples. Usually when a person who already has a child gets married to someone else, the person they marry adopts the kid. I'm not really sure how I stand on the whole "financial abortion" thing so I haven't thought about it much.

[Appel Juice]

Biology makes this issue 'unfair' in favor of the woman. As such, I say the guy is ********.

[Tactical Leg Sweep]

Mannequin Harpsichord

What if the woman hides the pregnancy from the man? What if the man claims that he was never informed of the pregnancy even if he was?

Quite a simple thing to solve. The man has a certain time frame to renounce paternity of the child (the same time-frame that the woman has to abort the child). Once she finds out she is pregnant, she serves him legal notice of her pregnancy and his timeframe for renouncing paternity. If she does not serve him with those papers or cannot prove she did when it comes time to petition for child support, she abdicates all her rights and it's up to the father to decide whether or not he's allowed to do so.

[Tactical Leg Sweep]

Mannequin Harpsichord

marshmallowcreampie

Mannequin Harpsichord

What if the woman hides the pregnancy from the man? What if the man claims that he was never informed of the pregnancy even if he was?

If a "financial abortion" system was set up, they'd take this into account. The man would be notified of the pregnancy and THEN he gets time to decide what he wants to do. If necessary, the woman could have a legal authority contact the man to notify him of the pregnancy, so he wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

So she'd have to go through a court (and pay all the fees) and have him officially served? The woman would have to know ahead of time that he was going to jump ship. Would this financial abortion apply to married couples?

http://www.serve-now.com/resources/faqs

"On average, the cost of a routine service can range anywhere from $35 – $100. Prices can be lower in some states and higher in others. As the serve becomes more difficult or costly for the process server, you can expect to pay more."

neutral If she does not have at least 100 dollars, she might consider that having a baby isn't an economically sound decision.

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

x-Garethp-x

Mannequin Harpsichord

He could say that he doesn't use that email. Or if the woman is conniving could send the email purposely to an email he doesn't use. As long as he never responds to an email mentioning the baby he could claim he never received the email. But that is a good idea.

No, but the email provider could check if he's read the email or not. They store if you've read an email and when you read it. Also, you can actually set an email to alert you when it's been read (I'm not too clear on how, but I've used it before), so you can actually get an email when they've read theirs

I guess that's true. But couldn't he still claim that he knew about the baby but that she said she was going to abort or adopt it out (making no need for a financial abortion)? I guess he wouldn't have any proof, but it's not as easy to make small talk about abortion. I wonder how this would bode across states (move to another state and file for child support or financial abortion). States hate talking to each other, I've known of several people who have had their children (whom they had full custody of) go visit their other parent and have the other parent file for full custody in another state and win. rolleyes

With no proof, there's nothing he could do. Even if it were true. But if they have a conversation over email, or it's acknowledged over email...

Also, I find it stupid how in America your states have so much power. Things like custody and legal age and abortion should be legislated on the federal level, not state

I agree about the state thing. But I guess it's better than trying to get the whole country to agree on everything. If it was up to the entire country I think abortion and same-sex marriage would be illegal. So at least we have the benefit of being legal in some places at least.

Would this financial abortion be available to married couples (if the man does not want the child and will make it the full responsibility of the woman)?

Well, the thing with married couples is that their assets are joined anyway. And even if he does "Give up paternity" there's a legality where if you act as someones dad for long enough, you will legally be considered their dad regardless of biological connection. So through De Facto Parenthood, unless they break up, he's going to be the father anyway. By acting like a father, you become the father basically

Yeah I forgot about that, I find it stupid. But if they're married at the time of conception the woman likely would not be talking to her husband over email because they're married. I hate how the government is like "hey you're a responsible person, here take ALL of the responsibility" while irresponsible people can easily duck out. And they wonder why men are so afraid of dating women with young children rolleyes

My friend's father stole all of the money from their joint account right before the divorce was filed and then never paid child support. The only time the government can REALLY make you pay is if you're in a government job (might only be military though), in which case they take it directly out of your paycheck.

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

marshmallowcreampie

Mannequin Harpsichord

So she'd have to go through a court (and pay all the fees) and have him officially served? The woman would have to know ahead of time that he was going to jump ship. Would this financial abortion apply to married couples?

Not necessarily, she could send him an email or text and save it, so if he tries to renounce paternity after the deadline she can prove he was told about it. Or maybe record herself delivering the news. Or have him sign a document stating he knew. Not sure how this would apply to married couples. Usually when a person who already has a child gets married to someone else, the person they marry adopts the kid. I'm not really sure how I stand on the whole "financial abortion" thing so I haven't thought about it much.

Someone just reminded me, in the U.S. if you've acted as the father of a child, even if you're biologically unrelated, you are also obliged to pay child support if the relationship ends. Taking money from the responsible people rolleyes and they wonder why men are so afraid to date women with young children.

[Mannequin Harpsichord]

Tactical Leg Sweep

Mannequin Harpsichord

marshmallowcreampie

Mannequin Harpsichord

What if the woman hides the pregnancy from the man? What if the man claims that he was never informed of the pregnancy even if he was?

If a "financial abortion" system was set up, they'd take this into account. The man would be notified of the pregnancy and THEN he gets time to decide what he wants to do. If necessary, the woman could have a legal authority contact the man to notify him of the pregnancy, so he wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

So she'd have to go through a court (and pay all the fees) and have him officially served? The woman would have to know ahead of time that he was going to jump ship. Would this financial abortion apply to married couples?

http://www.serve-now.com/resources/faqs

"On average, the cost of a routine service can range anywhere from $35 – $100. Prices can be lower in some states and higher in others. As the serve becomes more difficult or costly for the process server, you can expect to pay more."

neutral If she does not have at least 100 dollars, she might consider that having a baby isn't an economically sound decision.

I think abortions go at around $300, so it's cheaper than that at least. She could still adopt it out, but if the father could help her support the child financially then she wouldn't have as much of a problem raising it. She probably has $100, but why does she have to spend that out of pocket just to give the father a chance to deny supporting their child together? Why bog down the courts with every case of conception out of wedlock?

[x-Garethp-x]

Mannequin Harpsichord

Yeah I forgot about that, I find it stupid. But if they're married at the time of conception the woman likely would not be talking to her husband over email because they're married. I hate how the government is like "hey you're a responsible person, here take ALL of the responsibility" while irresponsible people can easily duck out. And they wonder why men are so afraid of dating women with young children rolleyes

My friend's father stole all of the money from their joint account right before the divorce was filed and then never paid child support. The only time the government can REALLY make you pay is if you're in a government job (might only be military though), in which case they take it directly out of your paycheck.

I can't decide how I feel about Defacto Parenting. As a child who lost a step parent who I considered more my dad than my actual dad, and him just buggering out of the country...

Over here in Australia the Government actually can force you to pay. I think if you don't, they can actually make your work take the money out of your pay check before it gets to you

But yes, any other situation I could help you work through? I've thought about this topic ALOT