School Uniforms. warning wall of text.

[Teki]

So the kids in my area went back to school yesterday. My sister has started middle school this year. She is now attending a school that has uniforms, cleverly disguised as something called standard school dress. It basically says she can wear school colors, along with Khaki, Black, and Navy blue. Her shirts must have colors and her skirts must be below the knee etc. It’s a uniform.

I am totally 100% against school uniforms. In the following I will give the reasons I'm against them and my arguments for the reasons I have heard people say they are for me (also reasons the school has given for issuing them). I want to hear other people’s points of view about the subject and I decided to post on Gaia to get a wider spectrum of people.

I disagree with putting our kids in uniforms for three main reasons. The first reason is the cost; the second is the infringement on the child's creativity and right to express themselves, and lastly the type of teasing uniforms cause.

Let’s start with the cost. It has cost my mom more this semester in "Uniform" school clothes than any other year in any of the lives of me and my two siblings. Now at first I thought this was just us, because my sister got brand name polo's etc. So I talked to some other parents who have children attending my sister’s school all of which told me the same thing. That it cost them a small fortune.

I also believe kids should be able to choose what they wear and express themselves through their clothing (with in reason of course I don’t think kids should go to school naked or anything). Kids have everything chosen for them from when the go to bed to what they eat the least we can do is allowing them to pick out what shirt they wear each morning.

Lastly kids make fun of each other it’s a fact of life. When you put all the kids in the same clothing they no longer can make fun of the shirt or shorts you wear, so they will turn to more permanent things like your nose, freckles, weight, size of feet, teeth just about anything. Kid can change the kinds of clothes they wear; they can’t change their nose (at least not without costly surgery). I also think that uniforms lower self esteem. When I'm in my work uniform I certainly don't feel good about myself. When I'm in my street clothes thinking I look cute or whatever my self esteem is much higher. I can’t see it being different for a child.

The most common excuses for why people want uniforms is that it stops gang violence and teasing. I already addressed the bit about teasing, so all move on to the gang violence bit. I’m not sure how people could possibly think that it’s really going to stop gang violence. How could you think that preventing them from wearing the colors is going to stop them from telling each other who they are? There are plenty of ways around it that a gang member to tell other gang members what gang there part of. There are symbols, they could throw up, or put on their notebooks, they could have specifically colored note books, or pens etc.

So Gaia what do you think of school uniforms?

[merixthexninja]

I'm against uniforms, just because it's a pain in the a** to find uniform-acceptable clothing that looks good, fits well, and is cheap. Hell, it's hard to find clothing that's like that PERIOD, uniform-accepted or not. It doesn't do a damned bit of good, and is a huge hassle for students and parents.

[Kemeoth_Othyre]

Creativity?

Huh.

The kids at my school must be lacking this so-called creativity if they themselves follow trends.

[Spatterdash]

I think that school uniform is perfectly fine.

The cost issue is certainly problematic in certain areas, but that doesn't make school uniform bad in itself. It's just that the school really should take into account the budgets people are likely to have - something the PTA should discuss.

The creativity argument is total bullshit. You're not at school to express your individuality, you're there to learn - just as nurses, policemen, soldiers and security guards put on their uniforms when they go to work to give them an image of professionalism and make them easier identifiable. You can dress however you like when you're outside school, 'cause that's your own time.
Also, frankly, anybody who relies on their clothing as their main method of self-expression lacks imagination. A true individual stands out by the force of their personality, not what they wear. Not to mention that there's plenty of leeway in school uniform; I was always required to wear uniform at school, but could express my tastes in style with my choice of footwear, backpack, pencil case, etcetera.

As for bullying, yes, bullying is inevitable. School uniform didn't prevent me being picked on for my taste in clothing, seeing as I still had a second-hand coat and no-brand trainers. But it helped cut down a little on the tribalism associated with teenagers and dress sense, which toned things down.
Our school used to have charity non-uniform days where we paid money to come in wearing our everyday clothes, and the teachers used to dread it, as behaviour got vastly worse. The kids would treat it like a holiday, because they associated ordinary clothing with being at home, and lost their work ethic. Wearing a uniform reminds you you've got a job to do. And saves time getting ready in the morning.

Anyway, school's only a few hours a day, five days a week, for about thirteen years of your life. As hardships to endure go, I can think of far worse than just wearing a badly-fitting sweater.


ETA: Oh yeah, the other reason I like school uniform - I still own my old stripy school tie, and when I wear it out at clubs, I'm way more likely to score. Uniform fetishes are incredibly common.

[Least Common Factor]

i go 2 the akro public schools and they have held uniforms as a punishment sence middle scool and i am a sofmore. they wat us 2 show deversity and they wont let us do that if we have uniforms

[Least Common Factor]

wat about buying them now we have 2 buy uniforms ontop or cloths for the week ends and vacations

[Elendinel]

merixthexninja

I'm against uniforms, just because it's a pain in the a** to find uniform-acceptable clothing that looks good, fits well, and is cheap. Hell, it's hard to find clothing that's like that PERIOD, uniform-accepted or not. It doesn't do a damned bit of good, and is a huge hassle for students and parents.

Aye.

I remember having to pay upwards of $100 for one outfit when I had to wear uniforms (outfit = white polo shirt and navy blue or plaid jumper; I'll pretend the other stuff like the brown dress shoes would have been bought anyway). I pay $30 max for an outfit now, and it actually fits and feels comfortable. And it's easier to adapt to the seasons when your options aren't "polo shirt" or "polo shirt under sweatshirt or sweater" for your top and "skirt" or "corduroy pants" for your bottom, with "brown dress shoes" or "brown dress shoes" to complete the ensemble.

[merixthexninja]

Quote:

And saves time getting ready in the morning.

Explain to me how throwing on a uniform shirt and pants takes less time than throwing on jeans and a tee?

[Spatterdash]

merixthexninja

Quote:

And saves time getting ready in the morning.

Explain to me how throwing on a uniform shirt and pants takes less time than throwing on jeans and a tee?

Ah, but it takes time choosing which jeans and tee you're going to wear. With uniform, you wear the same stuff every day.
Admittedly, it's only like a minute or two of time saved, but it's something.

At our school, there wasn't any uniform for the final two years. It was always amusing how the fresh bunch of kids coming up into Year 12 would, for the first fortnight of the school year, dress up in their coolest ensembles and put some effort into it, and then slowly give up on it as the term wore on.

[Lemon Scented Teacup]

I'd have to disagree with you.

I think that you made a mistake by saying that all uniforms are expensive, there are many schools out there that offer a affordable uniforms and there are many stores out there that offer more traditional clothing, you just have to know the right places to look. Heck, there are often rows full of more traditional style clothing in local thrift stores.

I find that when a lot of kids are "expressing" themselves they just dress up in whats is popular at the time. A lot of girls at my current school come to school in very short shorts and skirts and low shirts and other clothing that should not be worn in a school setting. It's not practical, it's sets them up for sexual harrassment and if all the kids are wearing the same style of clothing already then what differance does it make getting them to wear uniforms. They can still express themselves through things like hair, shoes and little add-ons like pin and jewlery.

[merixthexninja]

Minuialear

merixthexninja

I'm against uniforms, just because it's a pain in the a** to find uniform-acceptable clothing that looks good, fits well, and is cheap. Hell, it's hard to find clothing that's like that PERIOD, uniform-accepted or not. It doesn't do a damned bit of good, and is a huge hassle for students and parents.

Aye.

I remember having to pay upwards of $100 for one outfit when I had to wear uniforms (outfit = white polo shirt and navy blue or plaid jumper; I'll pretend the other stuff like the brown dress shoes would have been bought anyway). I pay $30 max for an outfit now, and it actually fits and feels comfortable. And it's easier to adapt to the seasons when your options aren't "polo shirt" or "polo shirt under sweatshirt or sweater" for your top and "skirt" or "corduroy pants" for your bottom, with "brown dress shoes" or "brown dress shoes" to complete the ensemble.

A hundred bucks? American? Holy ******** s**t. D= (Pays thirty maximum as well.) I said overpriced, but I didn't expect it to be MURDER. With those prices, I'd only be able to buy one outfit, one or two pairs of shoes, and under-clothes on my budget. And I think I'd need a little more than that to get through a year of school. D=

(You'd need two pairs of shoes: one pair of sneakers for gym and sports, and the uniform shoes.)

[The FDA]

Spatterdash

I think that school uniform is perfectly fine.

The cost issue is certainly problematic in certain areas, but that doesn't make school uniform bad in itself. It's just that the school really should take into account the budgets people are likely to have - something the PTA should discuss.

The creativity argument is total bullshit. You're not at school to express your individuality, you're there to learn - just as nurses, policemen, soldiers and security guards put on their uniforms when they go to work to give them an image of professionalism and make them easier identifiable. You can dress however you like when you're outside school, 'cause that's your own time.
Also, frankly, anybody who relies on their clothing as their main method of self-expression lacks imagination. A true individual stands out by the force of their personality, not what they wear. Not to mention that there's plenty of leeway in school uniform; I was always required to wear uniform at school, but could express my tastes in style with my choice of footwear, backpack, pencil case, etcetera.

As for bullying, yes, bullying is inevitable. School uniform didn't prevent me being picked on for my taste in clothing, seeing as I still had a second-hand coat and no-brand trainers. But it helped cut down a little on the tribalism associated with teenagers and dress sense, which toned things down.
Our school used to have charity non-uniform days where we paid money to come in wearing our everyday clothes, and the teachers used to dread it, as behaviour got vastly worse. The kids would treat it like a holiday, because they associated ordinary clothing with being at home, and lost their work ethic. Wearing a uniform reminds you you've got a job to do. And saves time getting ready in the morning.

Anyway, school's only a few hours a day, five days a week, for about thirteen years of your life. As hardships to endure go, I can think of far worse than just wearing a badly-fitting sweater.


ETA: Oh yeah, the other reason I like school uniform - I still own my old stripy school tie, and when I wear it out at clubs, I'm way more likely to score. Uniform fetishes are incredibly common.

You're English, right? Your uniforms are attractive and...I guess scholarly looking. In the US our uniforms make the kids look like they work at Burger King. Khakis and ill-fitting polo shirts. They look dumb.

[Lord Maggot]

When your getting older you want to express yourself,
At those ages clothes and music are very popular methods.
Still some rules about it are oke, like racist stuff etc.

Still it's up to the school and you can always take a different school so.

[Elendinel]

Spatterdash

The cost issue is certainly problematic in certain areas, but that doesn't make school uniform bad in itself. It's just that the school really should take into account the budgets people are likely to have - something the PTA should discuss.

Thing is, if the school's in a bad area, chances are there isn't enough money to sponsor buying uniforms for students who can't get them. How are the kids who can barely buy any clothing going to raise the money to buy the more expensive uniforms?

Quote:

just as nurses, policemen, soldiers and security guards put on their uniforms when they go to work to give them an image of professionalism and make them easier identifiable.

They also get the choice to don on those uniforms, or to choose another profession. Kids in public schools don't exactly get that choice.

Quote:

Not to mention that there's plenty of leeway in school uniform; I was always required to wear uniform at school, but could express my tastes in style with my choice of footwear, backpack, pencil case, etcetera.

A lot of uniforms don't let you choose the shoes you wear, limit the styles of backpack and lunch bag, etc. Depends on the school.

Quote:

But it helped cut down a little on the tribalism associated with teenagers and dress sense, which toned things down.

Again, depends. If some kids are wearing gold Rolexes or necklaces from Tiffany's while others have only friendship bracelets and plastic hair clips, there's still going to be quite a bit of tribalism or division.

Quote:

And saves time getting ready in the morning.

Only if it takes you half an hour to figure out which t-shirt you're going to pull on. But then that's your problem, not anyone else's.

[The FDA]

Lemon Scented Teacup

I'd have to disagree with you.

I think that you made a mistake by saying that all uniforms are expensive, there are many schools out there that offer a affordable uniforms and there are many stores out there that offer more traditional clothing, you just have to know the right places to look. Heck, there are often rows full of more traditional style clothing in local thrift stores.

I find that when a lot of kids are "expressing" themselves they just dress up in whats is popular at the time. A lot of girls at my current school come to school in very short shorts and skirts and low shirts and other clothing that should not be worn in a school setting. It's not practical, it's sets them up for sexual harrassment and if all the kids are wearing the same style of clothing already then what differance does it make getting them to wear uniforms. They can still express themselves through things like hair, shoes and little add-ons like pin and jewlery.

Not making a uniform rule is easier than making one. At my school we didn't wear slutty clothes or whatever because we had a dress code. It's like a compromise. Kids can still wear whatever they want as long as it isn't too extreme.