School Shootings: Is it really media?

[pulchritudinous soup]

I watched a foreign film a few days ago called "Klass". Long story short, it's about teenage boys getting verbally, physically, and sexually abused by their peers. In the end... Well, you could probably guess.

I'm sorry if I spoiled the film for you. Really, it's not that hard to guess. I did enjoy the movie and I thought that it captured the emotions very well. But, that's not the point of this thread. However, I do recommend that you take a peak at the trailer and see if you're interested in watching.

There's a decently close resemblance of the background behind the boys within the Estonian film and they boys of Columbine. Though, I am quite sure that the film mentioned above is fictional. I do not believe that it's based around an actual shooting within Estonia. It could, however, correlate with the American massacre.

Columbine High School massacre

There are a few quotes in there that I would like to quote.

Quote:

Jerald Block, a US psychiatrist, has differed with the FBI opinion of psychopathology and depression, arguing that the killers' actions are not well explained by such diagnoses. Rather, he states that Klebold and Harris were immersed in games like Doom and that their lives were most gratifying while playing in the virtual.

Question 1: Do you think that video games greatly influence adolescents to become violent to such a degree that they would, literally, shoot and kill others for their own benefit?

Quote:

In the weeks following the shootings, media reports about the two students portrayed them as part of a Goth cult and an increase in suspicions of Goth subculture was manifest after the shootings.[41] Harris and Klebold were thought to be part of an informal school club called the Trenchcoat Mafia. Later, such characterizations were considered incorrect.[42]

Question 2: Is the Gothic trend worthy of blame?

Quote:

Blame for the shootings was directed at bands like Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, KMFDM, and other mainstream 'dark' music groups, which was detailed in Michael Moore's documentary Bowling for Columbine. Lead singer Manson stated on a VH1 interview that the band had cancelled three concerts in memoriam of the tragedy. When asked what he would have said to kids at Columbine or to the people in the community, Manson replied: "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."[43]

Question 3: Was it appropriate to blame Marilyn Manson? Can music influence someone to do something as violent as this?

Which is responsible?

The media?

Or

The bullying?

You CAN be within the middle. Reasoning is encouraged.

Rules of Fabulous Debate

1. State your position.
2. Provide sources to support your claim.
3. Direct insult to an individual is prohibited.


P.S., I am half asleep so I will not be here to check on the feedback until later. I'm sorry if I'm not clear... I'm trying not to go kaplunk onto my bed.

[Macaroni Junior]

It's a mix of bad coping skills mixed with assholery on part of the other kids. crying

[Caaiittyy]

The media probably just blows it up,
though the bullying is partly to blame.

[Princess Z-M]

pulchritudinous soup

Question 1: Do you think that video games greatly influence adolescents to become violent to such a degree that they would, literally, shoot and kill others for their own benefit?

No. If you really take a look this is just another example how the mass media has made it possible for such things to spread like last fire. Newflash this was not the first ever school shooting. I read somewhere a long while ago (in a BOOK) that school shooting have been happening in our oh so happy gun wanking society for AGES! The first school shooting was way back in the 19th century in which some drugged up teacher got pissed because his class had a mega brain fart over a question and went ape s**t. (Damn I wish I remember that book's title it had all kinds of unearthed history)

Point is. Same s**t different day. People have been going bonkers forever and in America any loser can become a bad-a** if given a blog or a gun. Usually they make more of an impact with a gun.

pulchritudinous soup

Question 2: Is the Gothic trend worthy of blame?

No, and many of the myths (yes myths) about the Columbine High School massacre were misleading. In fact many books have been publish (I have yet to read them) with more truthful and inside information. Point is these kids weren't the lonely goths the media painted them as. they were actually pretty popular. Thing is people are kind to point fingers even when they don't understand what the hell they are pointing at.

The trigger pullers will always be the blame. They are the ones that ultimately decided to bring death onto that campus. I don't know about you but Black nail polish and hair gel has never told me to kill anyone.

pulchritudinous soup

Question 3: Was it appropriate to blame Marilyn Manson? Can music influence someone to do something as violent as this?

Again pointing fingers just to point fingers without even know what you are pointing at. People are silly like that and dangerous. I must have listen to a bunch of NWA songs and I have yet killed a cop. So there you go.

pulchritudinous soup

Which is responsible?

The media?

Or

The bullying?

Ultimately it's on the person or persons though yes society as a whole plays a part I suppose. I mean maybe if guns were illegal to common folks or if we lived in total censorship this wouldn't happen. Then again we see cases where even with all that s**t still happens.

To make a connection it's the same with this Fort Hood business. People can try to say the causes were terrorism, beliefs, or whatever X-factor they can come up with. Point is that a*****e decided to do what he did all by himself. No one or any object can make you do anything if you don't want to do it. On the flip side no one nor any object can stop you from going bat-s**t and causing havoc either.

[pulchritudinous soup]

Princess Z-M

Newflash this was not the first ever school shooting. I read somewhere a long while ago (in a BOOK) that school shooting have been happening in our oh so happy gun wanking society for AGES! The first school shooting was way back in the 19th century in which some drugged up teacher got pissed because his class had a mega brain fart over a question and went ape s**t.

It would be nice if you could find a source to back that up.

Otherwise, I do agree with you. I do not believe that media is an extreme influence on school shootings.

Caaiittyy

The media probably just blows it up,
though the bullying is partly to blame.

I'd probably switch the two up. Bullying is more of a cause than media. It's much easier to blame trends that differ from the social norm than to blame "normal" students. If they make the shooters look "odd" because of "odd beliefs", what would be the general reaction?

[Princess Z-M]

pulchritudinous soup

Princess Z-M

Newflash this was not the first ever school shooting. I read somewhere a long while ago (in a BOOK) that school shooting have been happening in our oh so happy gun wanking society for AGES! The first school shooting was way back in the 19th century in which some drugged up teacher got pissed because his class had a mega brain fart over a question and went ape s**t.

It would be nice if you could find a source to back that up.

Otherwise, I do agree with you. I do not believe that media is an extreme influence on school shootings.

I couldn't fine that book to for the life of me. It was way back when I was in High school and I can't remember it the actual title though i know it was a series of books about random US facts and other oddities. The media only influences in these matters is the fact that it causes copy-cat killers.

My main point is that it's all on the person or persons themselves.

[Repellant]

I like how music I listen to always get the attention when their listeners go postal.

Had they listened to The Beatles or whatever, would it gain the same coverage?

[wasabichan]

Repellant

I like how music I listen to always get the attention when their listeners go postal.

Had they listened to The Beatles or whatever, would it gain the same coverage?

Marilyn Manson is the musical equivalent of Islam, apparently.

Edit: I fixed your sign.

[doctorjackal777]

The suspect was know to have listened to children's nursery rhymes on a regular basis, before he opened fire upon his classmates. We are therefore warning parents whose children may be listening to these kinds of dangerous and violent songs.
People are probably thinking wtf? Think of some kiddy rhymes and then take it out of context.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall - okay pretty tame
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall - so he had a massive accident and is now lying in pieces at the base of the wall
All the Kings Horses and all the Kings men - assume this as being the medics
Couldn't put Humpty together again - so he dies in surgery. Humpty dies in this song for craps sake. What did he ever do wrong?

This one I used to like, but it's so easy to make it wrong
Cry Baby Bunting - K so baby is sad and crying, off to a bad start
Daddy's gone a-hunting - So daddy leaves the child alone (presumably) to go kill an innocent animal
Gone to fetch a rabbit skin - K he's gonna to kill a bunny
To wrap the Baby Bunting in - now he's gonna rip the skin off and wrap his baby in it.
Cry Baby Bunting - and still the child cries.

Here's another
Goosey Goosey Gander where shall I wander, - K we start off with someone lost, or maybe somewhere he shouldn't be
Upstairs, downstairs and in my lady's chamber - He's wandering around a house (maybe not his own) and just walks into a girls room
There I met an old man who wouldn't say his prayers, - So he finds an old man who won't pray
I took him by the left leg and threw him down the stairs. - He grabs this frail old man and throws him down the stairs for not praying. The old guys probably badly hurt or dead.

[Pwn3r_F0x]

In fact in was a mix of their sociopathic and psychopathic tenancies and the belief that Harris was a God. And was a big plan to prove how superior they were. If you would like I will find you the whole investigation reports.
Also their initial investigation hints highly toward that the video games were keeping the violence in the virtual world. As this happened after their were denied access to their computers.
While bullying was never stated as a cause the only hint was like all school their was bullying and that he focused a lot towards the athletes. Athletes of course are the biggest culprits for bullying. But in turn it could have just been one of those random outbursts they said seeing as only 2 jocks died, and they had no prejudice.
I could be wrong but I remember a website entry hating Manson. That and they were not social butterflies but did have a tight social group that they like to hang.

[Avgvsto]

this is only cause of the zero tolerance policy, if the kids would just fight more kids would respect the bullied one and the bullied kid would have less reason to be pissed of enough to be killing and injuring people

[BaeKim]

They shot up the school for various reasons. Media influences, bullying ,depression and I think one of the teenagers had antisocial personality disorder.

[Cory Shallow]

Dawson College student, reporting in once again for another school shooting thread.
Question 1: No.
Question 2: No.
Question 3: No.
Indirect questions 4&5 ( Media/Bullying): Neither
Answer: Poor parenting, youthful delusion and isolated behavior.

[pulchritudinous soup]

Cory Shallow

Dawson College student, reporting in once again for another school shooting thread.
Question 1: No.
Question 2: No.
Question 3: No.
Indirect questions 4&5 ( Media/Bullying): Neither
Answer: Poor parenting, youthful delusion and isolated behavior.

I like your signature. L4D2 is fun 'cause of the whole guitar "EHEHEHEHEHE"-ness.

[Russian Hooker]