Sam gets cut...is it over?

[I AM R U]

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

black_wing_angel

I AM R U

Shouldn't this go in sports, or something?

Oh wait, Joe wants us to be butt hurt the gay player got cut and for us all to scream that it was because he was gay...

Even if he didn't make the final team (or however American football works...) its still great that he came out publicly, both for himself, for other gay players, and for gay youth everywhere. Just because he didn't make it doesn't mean a thing - good luck to him, hope everything works out for the best, and Joe, get a life honey 3nodding

I think it has more to do with an "I told you so". See, when the guy was first announced as a draft pick, there was ZERO focus on his actual playing skills. The only thing that was up for discussion, is how either "wonderful" or "terrible" it was for there to finally be an openly gay player in the NFL. And the same for the Rams having drafted him. And anytime someone dared to bring up his limitations as a player, it was pretty much regarded as veiled homophobia.

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.

Quote:

And yet, now he's been cut from the team. Because the luster of him being openly gay has worn off, and it's time to actually get down to business, and he simply does not measure up (And for the bar set for the Rams...that's saying something.... ). As some have gone to length to point out.

I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/

Quote:

So it's kinda a "I told you so" moment, for those individuals.

Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.

Quote:

Because let's face it, as great as it is to have that barrier broken, this is ******** sports. If it doesn't affect the player's ability to play, it doesn't ******** matter. And I say this as someone who's long grown tired of the degradation of sports into being more about celebrity gossip, and less about actual gameplay. Who gives a s**t? Just shut up, and play / watch the ******** game.... stare

Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

[I AM R U]

black_wing_angel

I AM R U

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods.

I rather doubt it has anything to do with all of that. I think it's more of a thing where Sam has just been either the first one to genuinely be gay, or just the first one to be comfortable with it. Nothing to do with some sense of fear against the other players, or whatever.

I seriously doubt he's the first to be gay - statistically that doesn't make sense. I'd say he's the first to feel he can be publicly out about it without being ruining any chance of a career.

Quote:

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Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue.

That doesn't happen in the NFL, that I'm aware of.

Quote:

I was speaking very generally - it has been an issue in the AFL with indigenous players being called "monkey" by spectators.

Quote:

Quote:

Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" of sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society.

Just because people like them, doesn't mean they're role models. Some are actually quite insufferable. But it's not about "behave. Kids emulate you." It's about "Do your job." Whether that job is kicking the ball, throwing the ball, catching the ball, or blocking someone else from getting the ball. Focusing on anything deeper than that, is just absurd.

Simply because you don't see it that way, doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Every time a sport star does something illegal or immoral, and nothing happens to them, it reinforces the idea that such behaviour is ok.

Quote:

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Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

This assumes there ARE other gay players, though.

Oh Angel...

Quote:

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I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Put your best team against our Packers. We'll see who's better razz

Ours, a thousand times ours. In both the AFL and NRL 3nodding

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Shouldn't this go in sports, or something?

Oh wait, Joe wants us to be butt hurt the gay player got cut and for us all to scream that it was because he was gay...

Even if he didn't make the final team (or however American football works...) its still great that he came out publicly, both for himself, for other gay players, and for gay youth everywhere. Just because he didn't make it doesn't mean a thing - good luck to him, hope everything works out for the best, and Joe, get a life honey 3nodding

This wasn't put in sports because, as has been said and everyone but the mentally slow caught on, no one gave a s**t.
As for your opinion on the matter, doesn't matter for two reasons: You aren't an American, so its none of your business, and we seriously doubt you comprehend football.

And if they (including you) really didn't give a s**t, it would go in...wait for it... SPORTS! As its about...SPORT! But wait, you give a s**t! Doncha, Joe?

You're right, I don't comprehend the p***y sport you call football, and thankfully I'm not American - but hey, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion! Isn't that the brilliance of the free speech you keep screaming about?

You don't like the topic, then don't post in it. As far as p***y sports, you really have a lot of room to talk.
That's hilarious.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

black_wing_angel

I AM R U

Shouldn't this go in sports, or something?

Oh wait, Joe wants us to be butt hurt the gay player got cut and for us all to scream that it was because he was gay...

Even if he didn't make the final team (or however American football works...) its still great that he came out publicly, both for himself, for other gay players, and for gay youth everywhere. Just because he didn't make it doesn't mean a thing - good luck to him, hope everything works out for the best, and Joe, get a life honey 3nodding

I think it has more to do with an "I told you so". See, when the guy was first announced as a draft pick, there was ZERO focus on his actual playing skills. The only thing that was up for discussion, is how either "wonderful" or "terrible" it was for there to finally be an openly gay player in the NFL. And the same for the Rams having drafted him. And anytime someone dared to bring up his limitations as a player, it was pretty much regarded as veiled homophobia.

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.

Quote:

And yet, now he's been cut from the team. Because the luster of him being openly gay has worn off, and it's time to actually get down to business, and he simply does not measure up (And for the bar set for the Rams...that's saying something.... ). As some have gone to length to point out.

I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/

Quote:

So it's kinda a "I told you so" moment, for those individuals.

Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.

Quote:

Because let's face it, as great as it is to have that barrier broken, this is ******** sports. If it doesn't affect the player's ability to play, it doesn't ******** matter. And I say this as someone who's long grown tired of the degradation of sports into being more about celebrity gossip, and less about actual gameplay. Who gives a s**t? Just shut up, and play / watch the ******** game.... stare

Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.
As for the sexual orientation, you can go ******** goats. I really don't give a s**t. But the harder you push your agenda on people and the more insulting? The more I get to the point where I am of the mind 'we would all just be better off if you didn't exist.
I really don't have any qualms about transgenders or cross dressers that withhold their true gender from the person they are with until they are getting intimate, and then they get all upset when they get the ******** beat out of them.
As far as I am concerned, that's their fault.
What do they expect? A laugh and aw, shucks, ya got me good!?
Keep sexual orientation out of sports.

[Sugarbeary]

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

black_wing_angel

I think it has more to do with an "I told you so". See, when the guy was first announced as a draft pick, there was ZERO focus on his actual playing skills. The only thing that was up for discussion, is how either "wonderful" or "terrible" it was for there to finally be an openly gay player in the NFL. And the same for the Rams having drafted him. And anytime someone dared to bring up his limitations as a player, it was pretty much regarded as veiled homophobia.

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.

Quote:

And yet, now he's been cut from the team. Because the luster of him being openly gay has worn off, and it's time to actually get down to business, and he simply does not measure up (And for the bar set for the Rams...that's saying something.... ). As some have gone to length to point out.

I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/

Quote:

So it's kinda a "I told you so" moment, for those individuals.

Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.

Quote:

Because let's face it, as great as it is to have that barrier broken, this is ******** sports. If it doesn't affect the player's ability to play, it doesn't ******** matter. And I say this as someone who's long grown tired of the degradation of sports into being more about celebrity gossip, and less about actual gameplay. Who gives a s**t? Just shut up, and play / watch the ******** game.... stare

Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.
As for the sexual orientation, you can go ******** goats. I really don't give a s**t. But the harder you push your agenda on people and the more insulting? The more I get to the point where I am of the mind 'we would all just be better off if you didn't exist.
I really don't have any qualms about transgenders or cross dressers that withhold their true gender from the person they are with until they are getting intimate, and then they get all upset when they get the ******** beat out of them.
As far as I am concerned, that's their fault.
What do they expect? A laugh and aw, shucks, ya got me good!?
Keep sexual orientation out of sports.

just adding onto what you are saying, the interview was a few days after Oprah said she would do a documentary of him.

[I AM R U]

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Shouldn't this go in sports, or something?

Oh wait, Joe wants us to be butt hurt the gay player got cut and for us all to scream that it was because he was gay...

Even if he didn't make the final team (or however American football works...) its still great that he came out publicly, both for himself, for other gay players, and for gay youth everywhere. Just because he didn't make it doesn't mean a thing - good luck to him, hope everything works out for the best, and Joe, get a life honey 3nodding

This wasn't put in sports because, as has been said and everyone but the mentally slow caught on, no one gave a s**t.
As for your opinion on the matter, doesn't matter for two reasons: You aren't an American, so its none of your business, and we seriously doubt you comprehend football.

And if they (including you) really didn't give a s**t, it would go in...wait for it... SPORTS! As its about...SPORT! But wait, you give a s**t! Doncha, Joe?

You're right, I don't comprehend the p***y sport you call football, and thankfully I'm not American - but hey, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion! Isn't that the brilliance of the free speech you keep screaming about?

You don't like the topic, then don't post in it.

Free country wink

Quote:

As far as p***y sports, you really have a lot of room to talk.
That's hilarious.

And that means, what exactly?

[I AM R U]

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

black_wing_angel

I think it has more to do with an "I told you so". See, when the guy was first announced as a draft pick, there was ZERO focus on his actual playing skills. The only thing that was up for discussion, is how either "wonderful" or "terrible" it was for there to finally be an openly gay player in the NFL. And the same for the Rams having drafted him. And anytime someone dared to bring up his limitations as a player, it was pretty much regarded as veiled homophobia.

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.

Quote:

And yet, now he's been cut from the team. Because the luster of him being openly gay has worn off, and it's time to actually get down to business, and he simply does not measure up (And for the bar set for the Rams...that's saying something.... ). As some have gone to length to point out.

I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/

Quote:

So it's kinda a "I told you so" moment, for those individuals.

Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.

Quote:

Because let's face it, as great as it is to have that barrier broken, this is ******** sports. If it doesn't affect the player's ability to play, it doesn't ******** matter. And I say this as someone who's long grown tired of the degradation of sports into being more about celebrity gossip, and less about actual gameplay. Who gives a s**t? Just shut up, and play / watch the ******** game.... stare

Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

Quote:

As for the sexual orientation, you can go ******** goats. I really don't give a s**t. But the harder you push your agenda on people and the more insulting? The more I get to the point where I am of the mind 'we would all just be better off if you didn't exist.

LBGT*etc people will stop pushing their "agenda" when its stops being necessary to do so - nobody really gives a s**t if you don't like it or not, the fact that you'd prefer us all to "not exist" rather than face that there are serious issues of discrimination in the world is rather pathetic.

Quote:

I really don't have any qualms about transgenders or cross dressers that withhold their true gender from the person they are with until they are getting intimate, and then they get all upset when they get the ******** beat out of them.
As far as I am concerned, that's their fault.
What do they expect? A laugh and aw, shucks, ya got me good!?
Keep sexual orientation out of sports.

And where the bloody hell did that come from?! Nobody is even talking about that sort of situation neutral And assault is assault - don't try and justify it, even if I agree that people should discuss such issues with sexual partners.

[HMS Thunder Child]

"True gender." Shocker, Joe doesn't know what he's talking about yet again. It's almost as if he's a pathetic bigot but he's convinced himself he isn't. Amazing.

[HMS Thunder Child]

Jerkoff Joe:

Pushes for the oppression of LGBT people.
Complains when they push back.
Says he wishes we'd all just disappear.
We push back again.

Stay tuned for the riveting followup where he complains further about our agenda to live despite the fact that he and his kind have an even worse agenda. Break things and complain when people try to fix them. Children, essentially. Fifty year old manbaby, Joe. Fifty year old manbaby.

[Keltoi Samurai]

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.



I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/



Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.



Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

I remember back when all this mess first started, it was discussed in the ED and the "News" forums, and nobody was calling to keep it in the "Sport" forum when it was being used as a "gotcha" against the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play.

So why is it no longer newsworthy when it turns out that no, in fact, he didn't have those chops? It almost sounds like certain people would prefer this story be buried, so that the media phenomenon that this gentleman became not be besmirched by the realisation that he was more gimmick than skill.

[Tee the Wicked]

Old Blue Collar Joe

You straights need to stop pushing your straight agenda on non-straight and asexual people. Sorry, but I don't want to see a straight male football player kiss his straight female wife on camera. Keep that s**t in the bedroom. Straight football players should go back into the closet where they belong, and hide any wife or girlfriend they have from the public eye, because that s**t don't belong in sports!

[Tee the Wicked]

Keltoi Samurai

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.



I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/



Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.



Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

I remember back when all this mess first started, it was discussed in the ED and the "News" forums, and nobody was calling to keep it in the "Sport" forum when it was being used as a "gotcha" against the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play.

So why is it no longer newsworthy when it turns out that no, in fact, he didn't have those chops? It almost sounds like certain people would prefer this story be buried, so that the media phenomenon that this gentleman became not be besmirched by the realisation that he was more gimmick than skill.

Football has never really been my sport, but my husband played in HS and is still big into pro football. And from what he has told me, Sam just wasn't all that spectacular given his team position. A mediocre player who only gained extra fame because of how the media has been eating up anything pro-LGBT lately. While I am happy about all the improvements to the rights of LGBT persons, it's still pretty sad how LGBT has become a "trend" for the media. Honestly, I think if Sam had been some sort of super-player in terms of skills, his skills would have still taken a backseat to his sexuality because of the media's obsession with objectifying LGBT anything.

[I AM R U]

Keltoi Samurai

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

Which is a shame - but in Joe's case, this entire thread is inappropriate and offensive, given his vocal homophobia and generally intolerant position against homosexuals. It belongs in sport, unless he blatantly wants to be a hypocrite.



I don't think he was signed simple because he was gay - he was signed and he happened to be openly gay. In addition, he was cut - and still happens to be gay. His sporting prowess and sexuality are entirely separate, and while its a shame he was cut for his own sake, I don't think the Rams should or would have kept him just because he's gay :/



Doesn't stop it being inappropriate, and again, given Joe's oft on display bigotry, excuse me if I think he's attempting to be more offensive than he's achieving.



Yet Joe is doing the same thing the people he was butthurt at were doing...funny about that.

As much as I agree with you, that sport is sport and not politics, the fact of the matter is that politics comes into it whether we like it or not. Sexuality shouldn't matter, but it does because gay players fear for their lives and livelihoods. Race shouldn't matter but when players are racially vilified, its becomes an issue. Its much easier for you to complain about the "degradation" or sports, but for better or worse these people are role models - they should be held to a standard, and made accountable by society. Representation also matters, and it would be great if other gay players felt more comfortable to come out...

I'm sorry, but our football league does it better than yours :/

Now you're just talking your usual dumb s**t. I don't give two shits about sexual orientation. But when someone starts demanding special treatment because of whatever special feature? ******** them.

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

I remember back when all this mess first started, it was discussed in the ED and the "News" forums, and nobody was calling to keep it in the "Sport" forum when it was being used as a "gotcha" against the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play.

So why is it no longer newsworthy when it turns out that no, in fact, he didn't have those chops? It almost sounds like certain people would prefer this story be buried, so that the media phenomenon that this gentleman became not be besmirched by the realisation that he was more gimmick than skill.

Its relevant as a discussion of homophobia in organised sport - as the first ever openly gay male at that level, it was a story separate from the actual details of the sport (players' abilities etc). Joe complains that about such discussions and how sport should just be about the sport, but fails to actually do that himself, instead baiting people by implying that the initial 'hype' about him as a player was unwarranted, while totally failing to see that the hype wasn't about him as a player - it was the fact that he dared to come out as homosexual. His ability to play the sport wasn't really the issue, which Joe fails to realise because he thinks gay people shouldn't exist rather than fight against discrimination and oppression.

Discussions about Sam's sexuality and homophobia in organised sport such as the NFL aren't just 'sport' issues, and Sam's abilities as a player are irrelevant to that discussion - Joe wants us to not talk about such things, and just focus on the sport (players abilities etc), in which case he has both missed the point (shocker!) and is being a hypocrite by failing to just talk about the sport without reference to social issues associated with it (by trying to use Sam's lack of sporting prowess as some kind of gotcha to those of us who think it was significant that he came out as gay).

Edit: Initial discussion about this was also not a 'gotcha' at the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play - there are gay men playing/who played NFL, they're just not 'out'. That's where the story was it was about homophobia in society as indicative of the different reactions of society/media to gay players (and people) in organised sport and in general.

[Keltoi Samurai]

Tee the Wicked

Keltoi Samurai

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

I remember back when all this mess first started, it was discussed in the ED and the "News" forums, and nobody was calling to keep it in the "Sport" forum when it was being used as a "gotcha" against the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play.

So why is it no longer newsworthy when it turns out that no, in fact, he didn't have those chops? It almost sounds like certain people would prefer this story be buried, so that the media phenomenon that this gentleman became not be besmirched by the realisation that he was more gimmick than skill.

Football has never really been my sport, but my husband played in HS and is still big into pro football. And from what he has told me, Sam just wasn't all that spectacular given his team position. A mediocre player who only gained extra fame because of how the media has been eating up anything pro-LGBT lately. While I am happy about all the improvements to the rights of LGBT persons, it's still pretty sad how LGBT has become a "trend" for the media. Honestly, I think if Sam had been some sort of super-player in terms of skills, his skills would have still taken a backseat to his sexuality because of the media's obsession with objectifying LGBT anything.

Exactly. It's the latest and greatest media fad, and people are confusing that with acceptance and tolerance . . . But the problem with fads is that those that hate a fad tend to outlast those who like it, and even the fad-followers wind up switching sides eventually, because the fad cycle goes from "hipster love" to "hipster hate" as soon as "mainstream love" is reached, which is then followed by "burnout," then "mainstream hate," and from there into "obscurity."

And that's all well and good when we're talking about boy bands and Nickleback, but we're not discussing those things this time, we're discussing actual people. People with hopes and dreams, goals and desires, and people who still face a whole host of problems and discrimination in their day-to-day lives.

And if you don't see the problem with treating them as a media fad, then just take a look at that Nickelback joke I cracked in that last paragraph, and realise that a dozen years ago or so, they were riding pretty high as media darlings, and now I'm sitting here calling them "not actual people." Now imagine what it'll be like in a dozen or so years when the media decides that "the gays" aren't quite as darling as they were when this story about this footballer broke, and my Nickelback joke starts getting repackaged about them.

[Keltoi Samurai]

I AM R U

Keltoi Samurai

I AM R U

Old Blue Collar Joe

I AM R U

And who the ******** has been/is demanding special treatment, Joe my man? At what point did Sam say "hey, I'm gay, that means you have to sign me?!" Nor have such sentiments passed from my...well, the saying is lips, but fingers on a keyboard?

And "you don't give to shits about sexual orientation"... rofl Oh-kay, Joe 3nodding

Seventh round draft pick, everyone wasn't even shure if he was going to be drafted, much less where he was.
A seventh round tweener DE is drafted. The first pick in the draft is a DE, Jadeavon Clowney.
Who gets all the media coverage? The seventh rounder who is playing barely passable.
Tony Dungy was right. When asked if he'd have drafted Sam he said no, not because he was gay, but because of the media storm. And it was one hell of a media storm.

Because its an issue - as much as you personally may not like it, it is an issue. So ignore the media storm, get over it, and take the discussion about sport to where it belongs, rather than bringing it up all over again as a "gotcha!"

I remember back when all this mess first started, it was discussed in the ED and the "News" forums, and nobody was calling to keep it in the "Sport" forum when it was being used as a "gotcha" against the NFL that a gay man had the chops to play.

So why is it no longer newsworthy when it turns out that no, in fact, he didn't have those chops? It almost sounds like certain people would prefer this story be buried, so that the media phenomenon that this gentleman became not be besmirched by the realisation that he was more gimmick than skill.

Its relevant as a discussion of homophobia in organised sport - as the first ever openly gay male at that level, it was a story separate from the actual details of the sport (players' abilities etc). Joe complains that about such discussions and how sport should just be about the sport, but fails to actually do that himself, instead baiting people by implying that the initial 'hype' about him as a player was unwarranted, while totally failing to see that the hype wasn't about him as a player - it was the fact that he dared to come out as homosexual. His ability to play the sport wasn't really the issue, which Joe fails to realise because he thinks gay people shouldn't exist rather than fight against discrimination and oppression.

Discussions about Sam's sexuality and homophobia in organised sport such as the NFL aren't just 'sport' issues, and Sam's abilities as a player are irrelevant to that discussion - Joe wants us to not talk about such things, and just focus on the sport (players abilities etc), in which case he has both missed the point (shocker!) and is being a hypocrite by failing to just talk about the sport without reference to social issues associated with it (by trying to use Sam's lack of sporting prowess as some kind of gotcha to those of us who think it was significant that he came out as gay).

His coming out as gay, though, happened before he was part of the NFL, and was responsible for him being drafted in the first place. This is incredibly relevant, as the biggest criticism of him back when this started was his inability to play to the level required by the NFL, and he bypassed that criticism by coming out as gay, which lead to the media rebranding any discussion about his abilities, or lack thereof, as homophobia. Now, an argument made many times on this forum, and shouted down each time, has been validated, and you call it a "gotcha," but the truth is, it's setting the record straight on an issue that was woefully unaddressed beforehand.

Basically, this is newsworthy because of the fact that it shows how highly politicised his draft was in the first damn place. To ignore that is to perpetuate this myth that he was drafted despite being openly gay, instead of for the sole reason that he was openly gay. To be silent on the issue is to accept the notion of Sam as the NFL's Token Gay, and therefore, to condone tokenism.