religious circumcision IS okay

[La Veuve Zin]

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

Maybe you can explain why circumcision is SO important that it can't wait until a boy can consent, or be replaced with something similar?

Also...your thoughts on metzitzah b'peh? Explain why it's totally different from child molestation?

That's rarely practised today and it's not child molestation. It's not a sexual practise, I mean, there's no sexual gratification in performing it.

If I stick a d***o up my son's a**, but derive no pleasure from doing so, am I not sexually molesting him?

[In Medias Res IV]

Sciamancer

In Medias Res IV

True Colours of Destiny

Res, I can see where your argument is. It makes sense.

However, your statement about his mother being a Jew thus he is, it's not an appeal to religion. It's an appeal to culture. Yes in the case of Judaism and Jews, religion, culture, and ethnicity is intertwined, but they can also be separated.

Oh, I know. You can be an atheist Jew, secular Jew, whatever. It still remains that you're a Jew, you're just not bound by Judaism, but, as such, you're still going to be circumcised and most likely feel a connection with Jewish tradition.

Right... Judaism is not just a religion. There is a group of people that are Jews, no matter their religion... does this make sense? Like someone can be Greek without believing in Zeus. Get it?

I'm Italian, doesn't mean I am Roman Catholic but my Italian heritage will never truly go away.
If you're a Cohen, you can convert to anything you please, but you'll always remain a Cohen.

[[gossamer]!smile.]

Appel Juice

PhaedraMcSpiffy

The idea that you should be able to alter someone else's genitalia because of your personal religious beliefs is absolutely absurd.

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

But it's for the parents to decide what's best for them until their 18.

Really?

Then why is it illegal to tattoo an infant?

The fact of the matter stands. It's a life long choice made on an unconsenting human being- because the baby cannot consent.

[[gossamer]!smile.]

In Medias Res IV

Appel Juice

BUT I CAN'T BE A MAN WITHOUT MY VESTIGIAL FLAP OF SKIN! MY ENTIRE MACHISMO IS WRAPPED UP INTO IT AND ANY OF MY FUTURE SONS, AND IF I OR HE DON'T HAVE IT, WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO FEEL THE VELVETY WALLS OF THE v****a!

No, you got it wrong. Without your flap of skin, you will forever be mutilated and have a malfunctioning p***s.

It's interesting how someone with a v****a is so quick to make light of male circumcision.

[In Medias Res IV]

La Veuve Zin

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

Maybe you can explain why circumcision is SO important that it can't wait until a boy can consent, or be replaced with something similar?

Also...your thoughts on metzitzah b'peh? Explain why it's totally different from child molestation?

That's rarely practised today and it's not child molestation. It's not a sexual practise, I mean, there's no sexual gratification in performing it.

If I stick a d***o up my son's a**, but derive no pleasure from doing so, am I not sexually molesting him?

As I said, it's rarely practised today.

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Archaeoptryx

Even if it's not religious, circumcision makes for a much cleaner p***s, what with how lazy boys are with showering.

It's a common myth that an intact p***s is unclean. The truth is it's not any dirtier than a cut p***s or a female's labia. Most men never have a problem with it and most parents care enough about their kids to make sure that they have basic hygiene.

And frankly, if you think foreskin is gross you must think that labia are the most disgusting thing on the entire planet. They easily trap more fluid, odor and debris!

Speaking of female genitalia:
If tradition justifies altering male genitals without consent, why not the same for female genitals?

I know that most female genital cutting actually destroys a woman's ability to expereince pleasure and that most male genital cutting doesn't*, but the principle is still the same. You're altering a private part of your child's body without their informed consent because of your religious and cultural traditions. Your child is being... "modified"... to put it gently, because you feel that your religious beliefs suprecede their right to bodily domain.

And besides, there's no medical reason to circumcise, either:
Reproductive Health Reality Check | Gimme Some Skin

*(Some forms of FGM do not destroy the clitoris but instead remove the inner labia and clitoral hood, the latter of which is the female foreskin)

[Appel Juice]

Dickhead Who's name makes it hard to make quote trees

Appel Juice

PhaedraMcSpiffy

The idea that you should be able to alter someone else's genitalia because of your personal religious beliefs is absolutely absurd.

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

But it's for the parents to decide what's best for them until their 18.

Really?

Then why is it illegal to tattoo an infant?

The fact of the matter stands. It's a life long choice made on an unconsenting human being- because the baby cannot consent.

So are vaccinations, doctor visits and what you serve them for dinner. So the ******** what?

[Ayatollah Assahola]

Appel Juice

Dickhead Who's name makes it hard to make quote trees

Appel Juice

PhaedraMcSpiffy

The idea that you should be able to alter someone else's genitalia because of your personal religious beliefs is absolutely absurd.

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

But it's for the parents to decide what's best for them until their 18.

Really?

Then why is it illegal to tattoo an infant?

The fact of the matter stands. It's a life long choice made on an unconsenting human being- because the baby cannot consent.

So are vaccinations, doctor visits and what you serve them for dinner. So the ******** what?

The Ayatollah agrees and adds that children are not real people until the age of 18. Before this, it is fair game for the parents to do whatever they want.

This worked for the Ayatollah

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

La Veuve Zin

PhaedraMcSpiffy

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

I agree and will be quoting this if I ever--god forbid--end up in another abortion debate. biggrin

I hope you're kidding. rofl

Being pro-choice is what made me oppose circumcision!

If your body isn't under your control you are not free. You are not being treated as an equal under the law. End of story. Forced pregnancy is a violation of a woman's bodily domain. Outlawing abortion means that the woman is forced to endure childbirth and nine months of a state that will permanently alter her body and endanger her health. For either the sake of someone elses personal beliefs or the sake of a fetus that, if killed, will go from feeling nothing to feeling nothing.

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

[
If I stick a d***o up my son's a**, but derive no pleasure from doing so, am I not sexually molesting him?

As I said, it's rarely practised today.

Ah. So you've lost. You can't justify something, so you just say that it's rare.

Anyway... what exactly is this ritual you're taking about? lol I believe the subject was something other than circumcision.

[La Veuve Zin]

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

Maybe you can explain why circumcision is SO important that it can't wait until a boy can consent, or be replaced with something similar?

Also...your thoughts on metzitzah b'peh? Explain why it's totally different from child molestation?

That's rarely practised today and it's not child molestation. It's not a sexual practise, I mean, there's no sexual gratification in performing it.

If I stick a d***o up my son's a**, but derive no pleasure from doing so, am I not sexually molesting him?

As I said, it's rarely practised today.

You didn't answer the question. Rare as it may be, are you defending those who do practice it? Because they're out there, in the news, thanks to a boy who died from herpes that he caught from the mohel who put his mouth on the boy's p***s.

But it's okay, because it's a sacred tradition, amirite?

[[gossamer]!smile.]

Appel Juice

Dickhead Who's name makes it hard to make quote trees

Appel Juice

PhaedraMcSpiffy

The idea that you should be able to alter someone else's genitalia because of your personal religious beliefs is absolutely absurd.

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

But it's for the parents to decide what's best for them until their 18.

Really?

Then why is it illegal to tattoo an infant?

The fact of the matter stands. It's a life long choice made on an unconsenting human being- because the baby cannot consent.

So are vaccinations, doctor visits and what you serve them for dinner. So the ******** what?

"Who's" is incorrect.

Vaccines actually have a medical purpose. You are not allowed to serve certain things to your children for dinner. Like feces, for example. Or human flesh.

Circumcision, like tattoos, have no medical backing, and are life long changes a kid will have to deal with forever.

Feel free to try again, though. It's fun when people fail so hard.

[Appel Juice]

Whether it's done or not, it's not anyone's business until you're in their bed, or it's made illegal.

Even if it's made illegal, Jews will still do it out side of the law.

[In Medias Res IV]

Appel Juice

Whether it's done or not, it's not anyone's business until you're in their bed, or it's made illegal.

Even if it's made illegal, Jews will still do it out side of the law.

Yup!

[Ab Urbe Condita]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

La Veuve Zin

PhaedraMcSpiffy

It's not your body. Children aren't property.

I agree and will be quoting this if I ever--god forbid--end up in another abortion debate. biggrin

I hope you're kidding. rofl

Being pro-choice is what made me oppose circumcision!

If your body isn't under your control you are not free. You are not being treated as an equal under the law. End of story. Forced pregnancy is a violation of a woman's bodily domain. Outlawing abortion means that the woman is forced to endure childbirth and nine months of a state that will permanently alter her body and endanger her health. For either the sake of someone elses personal beliefs or the sake of a fetus that, if killed, will go from feeling nothing to feeling nothing.

In Medias Res IV

La Veuve Zin

[
If I stick a d***o up my son's a**, but derive no pleasure from doing so, am I not sexually molesting him?

As I said, it's rarely practised today.

Ah. So you've lost. You can't justify something, so you just say that it's rare.

Anyway... what exactly is this ritual you're taking about? lol I believe the subject was something other than circumcision.

No, it really is rarely practised today because a bunch of kids caught the herpes virus and died, if I recall.

[Methcalarjalope]

There was a French Emperor, Louis XVI who was circumcized for a therapeutic reason. His foreskin was so tight that erections and intercourse were painful. That is the reason historian Durant gives for his failure to consumate and produce an heir with Marie Antoinette for many years.