[ Poll ] Religion - a form of control!

If you are a Catholic did you know about this part in your history?

Yeah		17.1%	[ 7 ]
Nope!		2.4%	[ 1 ]
I'm not a Catholic		70.7%	[ 29 ]
Not me! I'm a Christian! <3		9.8%	[ 4 ]

Total Votes: 41

[monkeysread]

ok REALLY GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT King John had the archbishop af Canterbury Murdered, thats why he was excommunicated!!!

[Projectoutlet]

DeeFarnham

Projectoutlet

Maroahda

Hello there people! heart

I'm looking for a good argument here! I learnt alot today about the Catholic Church in my medievil class. Did you know!... That back in the 13th century there was a Pope named Pope Innocent III, and when King John made him angry (because he was somewhat trying to sneak his Administrator into the position of Archbishop of Canterbury) he excommunicated church activities from England. Meaning that everyone was blaming the king, because they all feared that they were going to hell - because they couldn't pray in church, get married, have a funeral!
Religion was used as a weapon to threaten the King! But even the King is in shame, because King John was trying to sneak someone in to influence the Church HIMSELF! It's like they were using gods name as a use of power, as a use of control!
Tell me that doesn't happen today - that people are still using Gods name as a power when they are in such position.

It definitely happens today. Everywhere. Most of the wars that are going on are founded in religion and religious beliefs. It's sometimes more subtle (or not), but it's there.

I think if you looked more into religion and it's history ( I haven't taken an in depth class, but I have read a lot) that you will find out how religion has been used to manipulate people from the start. If you read up on Pagans and how so much of Catholicism and Christianity is taken from the rituals pagans used, it would blow your mind. The Christians eventually killed off pagans, but people still follow pagan beliefs. I was taught in Catholic school that all other religions are wrong and that I was supposed to bring people to our views. Right from the start I knew something was fundamentally wrong with that. That is definitely about power. It is 99% of the time. Its not about being good to each other and loving each other/treating each other with respect. It's about power and control and being right. And getting rid of those people who don't believe and those who might convince others to question as well.

You misunderstand the Church's point of view. It's not really about power, it's about saving people's immortal souls. The Church sees itself as making sure that people go to Heaven. They don't really care about what rules you follow, as long as you follow the ones they have worked out to ensure your getting to Heaven. I mean, I don't really think priests and bishops sat around and said, "Okay, what silly-a** rules can we come up with to extend our control of people? How about ... no eating meat on Fridays? That should really put people's noses out of joint!" It's a matter of fasting to get closer to God and Jesus, with a little bit of medieval or Renaissance economics thrown in.

I hear what you are saying. I think the problem is when we say "church" who are we talking about really? There are the powers that be... the pope, bishops, priests - who are mostly men (white men). Then we have the people. Then we have the theoretical "church". Then we have the actual building itself. You know what I mean? When people talk about the "church", especially in how this forum was brought up, I think automatically the dogma, the power structure, the politics of it. We don't hear much from the good, everyday folks who are just trying to be close to a god that they feel they can trust. What I hear the "church" telling people most of the time is the change people at whatever cost. They (the political powers of the church) try to scare people into believing that they have to live a certain way in order to get into heaven - like they know exactly how that can happen. These men who run the church, and have for centuries are just human beings. But they have coerced people in one way or another to believe what they say and not question anything. That is power.

I would love for the church to be only about the goodness of god - in whatever form you believe god to come in. Unfortunately, the church is used so often as a power tool, that the goodness gets lost.

[Seraphor]

Tell us something new.
Power and control has always been the purpose of religion.
Religious faith is a personal thing, faith can mean whatever you want it to mean to you.
But Religion as an organisation has the sole intention of power and control, "unifying" people under the same set of rules and doctrine.

[Irahatam]

Maroahda

Hello there people! heart

I'm looking for a good argument here! I learnt alot today about the Catholic Church in my medievil class. Did you know!... That back in the 13th century there was a Pope named Pope Innocent III, and when King John made him angry (because he was somewhat trying to sneak his Administrator into the position of Archbishop of Canterbury) he excommunicated church activities from England. Meaning that everyone was blaming the king, because they all feared that they were going to hell - because they couldn't pray in church, get married, have a funeral!
Religion was used as a weapon to threaten the King! But even the King is in shame, because King John was trying to sneak someone in to influence the Church HIMSELF! It's like they were using gods name as a use of power, as a use of control!
Tell me that doesn't happen today - that people are still using Gods name as a power when they are in such position.

The archbishop of Canterbury was into some shady dealings and needed to be investigated.
Thats what happens when those who are to be teachers in religion start following their own selfish ends (the Jim Jones masacre, the Branch Davidian and now this other religion that just had their compound raided and over 400 children taken into state custody) and not God's requirements.
Trying to win brownie points with government officials is a no, no according to bible scripture.
Do you think Pope Innocent III found it written in the bible to threaten the king?
Somehow I don't think so. I think god would have wanted this pope to let the king go ahead and investigate the church.
If the church had nothing to hide, then they had nothing to fear.

[Kelly Couture]

GoldenRatio

People were tourtured for not believing in the same god. Hell it still happens. Religion causes wars, it leads to violence. Yes, it has it's benefits in one community. But overall, it leads to more chaos than good.

Everyone is fighting over whose god is the right god. And eventually, the communion that Gods word brought to the world, eventually turns to lust for power. We see it in Iraq, we see it in Ireland. We see it everywhere. We see it in our own community:

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-10/9982556.jpg

Money does the same thing.

[Ebony18]

DeeFarnham

Projectoutlet

Maroahda

Hello there people! heart

I'm looking for a good argument here! I learnt alot today about the Catholic Church in my medievil class. Did you know!... That back in the 13th century there was a Pope named Pope Innocent III, and when King John made him angry (because he was somewhat trying to sneak his Administrator into the position of Archbishop of Canterbury) he excommunicated church activities from England. Meaning that everyone was blaming the king, because they all feared that they were going to hell - because they couldn't pray in church, get married, have a funeral!
Religion was used as a weapon to threaten the King! But even the King is in shame, because King John was trying to sneak someone in to influence the Church HIMSELF! It's like they were using gods name as a use of power, as a use of control!
Tell me that doesn't happen today - that people are still using Gods name as a power when they are in such position.

It definitely happens today. Everywhere. Most of the wars that are going on are founded in religion and religious beliefs. It's sometimes more subtle (or not), but it's there.

I think if you looked more into religion and it's history ( I haven't taken an in depth class, but I have read a lot) that you will find out how religion has been used to manipulate people from the start. If you read up on Pagans and how so much of Catholicism and Christianity is taken from the rituals pagans used, it would blow your mind. The Christians eventually killed off pagans, but people still follow pagan beliefs. I was taught in Catholic school that all other religions are wrong and that I was supposed to bring people to our views. Right from the start I knew something was fundamentally wrong with that. That is definitely about power. It is 99% of the time. Its not about being good to each other and loving each other/treating each other with respect. It's about power and control and being right. And getting rid of those people who don't believe and those who might convince others to question as well.

You misunderstand the Church's point of view. It's not really about power, it's about saving people's immortal souls. The Church sees itself as making sure that people go to Heaven. They don't really care about what rules you follow, as long as you follow the ones they have worked out to ensure your getting to Heaven. I mean, I don't really think priests and bishops sat around and said, "Okay, what silly-a** rules can we come up with to extend our control of people? How about ... no eating meat on Fridays? That should really put people's noses out of joint!" It's a matter of fasting to get closer to God and Jesus, with a little bit of medieval or Renaissance economics thrown in.

...Actually, they did sit around and do that, just not in such context. Ever hear how the crusades really started? The church decided that in order to abolish any guilt that knights would feel, as well as amass a large army, that it would be reasonable to suddenly declare that Jesus said that it was o.k to kill infidels. Also, that any act performed during that crusade by a knight in the name of Christ would be excused by God.
...Guess that's what might have been one of the contributing factors when they cannibalized locals on the way to Jerusalem.
I'm not condemning religion, but I am saying that when the opportunity is given, people will twist and create rules to meet their own ends, even if it means using faith as a vessel for such action. Which when you think about it, isn't really such a surprise given that in the past faith had much more of a powerful role in society.

[Maroahda]

monkeysread

ok REALLY GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT King John had the archbishop af Canterbury Murdered, thats why he was excommunicated!!!

That's just a theory. I cant find it anywhere in the books that King John had him murdered!
But why did people deserve to be excommunicated? How can you justify that?

[Maroahda]

Irahatam

Maroahda

Hello there people! heart

I'm looking for a good argument here! I learnt alot today about the Catholic Church in my medievil class. Did you know!... That back in the 13th century there was a Pope named Pope Innocent III, and when King John made him angry (because he was somewhat trying to sneak his Administrator into the position of Archbishop of Canterbury) he excommunicated church activities from England. Meaning that everyone was blaming the king, because they all feared that they were going to hell - because they couldn't pray in church, get married, have a funeral!
Religion was used as a weapon to threaten the King! But even the King is in shame, because King John was trying to sneak someone in to influence the Church HIMSELF! It's like they were using gods name as a use of power, as a use of control!
Tell me that doesn't happen today - that people are still using Gods name as a power when they are in such position.

The archbishop of Canterbury was into some shady dealings and needed to be investigated.
Thats what happens when those who are to be teachers in religion start following their own selfish ends (the Jim Jones masacre, the Branch Davidian and now this other religion that just had their compound raided and over 400 children taken into state custody) and not God's requirements.
Trying to win brownie points with government officials is a no, no according to bible scripture.
Do you think Pope Innocent III found it written in the bible to threaten the king?
Somehow I don't think so. I think god would have wanted this pope to let the king go ahead and investigate the church.
If the church had nothing to hide, then they had nothing to fear.

I will look up the Jim Jones massacre as part of my study. But what you said about the church having something to hide I just totally agree with you. I am just so bloody shaken up, because we're teaching religious studies to kids in school and when I went to school we were told about any of this! You arent taught about the dark side of the church, about the Pope, your just told to read the bible and make sense out of it!!

[Maroahda]

Seraphor

Tell us something new.
Power and control has always been the purpose of religion.
Religious faith is a personal thing, faith can mean whatever you want it to mean to you.
But Religion as an organisation has the sole intention of power and control, "unifying" people under the same set of rules and doctrine.

And my intention isnt to tell you something new, as I clearly state I went to my Medieval class and i didn't know what hit me! So I wanted to form a debate on Gaia. Well I'm SORRY if you already 'know' so get to 'know' what Im trying to do here instead of trying to make me look like some n00b, I don't appreciate irt.

[Instant Superstition]

I think you're right that, in the past, religion was used to control people (you even had to pay money so you could get a certificate that you'd go to heaven instead of hell). I think that religion is still a way to set certain norms/values for people; a way of life. In the Netherlands the church lost a lof of control during the 'ontzuiling'.

[Runs With Beetles]

Seraphor

Tell us something new.
Power and control has always been the purpose of religion.
Religious faith is a personal thing, faith can mean whatever you want it to mean to you.
But Religion as an organisation has the sole intention of power and control, "unifying" people under the same set of rules and doctrine.

Tell me, how is Sikhism, or Tengriism, or Satanism, used to create and maintain power and control?

[WhiteWings9]

Most religions have been used to control the mass. That's not new.

[SimplyAh-mazing]

That doeesn't mean I support what he did just because of my religion. Man, now I feel like Obama...

[Qwerty Head]

SO NOT COOL!!!! CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!