Prisoners need our help more than gays

[LilPinkCandy]

The Real Macai XXXV

Mokie7

Really? I always thought our prison system was quite lenient compared to the rest of the world... and that's after watching those stupid prison shows that MSNBC shows marathons of on weekends.

Prisons in the United States are lenient compared to some countries. Thing is, most of those countries are in the third world, or communist dictatorships.

LilPinkCandy

If prison were a more pleasant place and not filled with harm, people wouldn't care about being there. It would no longer be a place to fear and no longer deter people from committing crimes...
However, i do believe that when in prison, you lose your rights.

Well, you're right. Draconian punishment does deter crime better than lenient punishment. I guess this justifies cutting people's hands off for stealing and their dicks off for rape.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in the middle ages.

Instead of justifying draconian punishment based on what they did, we should look at why they did it. You'll notice that poorest areas with the densest populations usually also have the most crime per capita. Could this just be a coincidence? Could it also be a coincidence that these places are the ones where individuals have their lives regulated to the greatest extent?

Well i do know I don't want them to have fluffy curtains, internet, great food because prison is a punishment, not a vacation. You are there because you committed a crime...

possiblywrong

LilPinkCandy

possiblywrong

Oh no! Lets all give them a comfortable bed, a nice clean toilet and seperate showers! Lets give them some nice healthy food and give them a chocolate cake for desert every day! Give them a nice flat screen tv and the newest laptop while we're at it. They certainly deserved all those nice things after the horrible things they've done to other people, which is why they ended up in prison in the first place stare

I'm glad they're being treated like s**t! Because that's what they are. If you do something bad, you deserve to be punished. Prison is a place you don't want to be so it needs to be a horrible place. That way you scare people of doing stupid bad things. How do you think you would feel if you were a victim? Or someone of your family was a victim? And the criminal who did this to you got all the comfort in prison you will never have because you're too traumatised to go to work so you can't afford anything. How would you feel huh? I'd personally torture the people who ever lay their hands on me or any member of my family.

Prisoners never gave their victims a chance. They torture them, rape them, hurt them, kill them etc. and then you expect the prisoner to be treated well? No, hell no! I say: go ahead and throw them in a dark cave, starve them to death. They need to suffer like they made their victims suffer. And I don't mean capital punishment, I want them to really suffer! Because death brings end to all suffering. So make them suffer! Torture them for all I care! Criminals don't have the right to be treated like kings and queens.

(I would like to point out that I only wish this would happen to the really bad criminals, i.e. (child) rapist, murderers, etc. small criminals like thiefs who never physically harmed another person shouldn't be treated like s**t in my opinion.)

we probably do need a revamp though...
people learn how to be more criminal in prison.... the small criminals shouldn't be anywhere near the terrible guys who killed people. It really is an endless circle of badness though. We want them to suffer, yet they repeat so much- something isn't working....

yeah I know... that's the problem. There should be system where small criminals and the really bad guys should be seperated. Also sentenced for life should really mean FOR LIFE. Because where I live it's not more than 25 years and most of those people are released after half of their sentence because of "good behaviour".

That troubles me... because people can act behaved just so they can carry out their next sceme...
Though, they probably instituted good behavior to let people out because prisons are crowded....

[Velkyn Faer]

Demetri Nolan

Quote:

You're kidding, right? So, if I were to develop an addiction to an illegal drug, my friends and family wouldn't be at all effected? When I blow all of my money on drugs and then start begging them, or stealing from them, it doesn't have an impact? What about when my parents watch me get carted off to prison for who knows how long?



As to gang murders, you're saying that murder is okay if it is commited on people you deem worthless? I'm not advocating gangs, but there are legitimate reasons that people join them, such as a protective family who will look out for you. It's not all black and white, as much as we all would like it to be.

Your friends and family would be affected if you were addicted to drugs, but it wouldnt harm society enough to deserve prison in my mind. Also I know gangmembers are real people, but there are murders every single day and were running out of room to lock them up, so thats one thing I would let slide to try and save space.

What do I have to do to get into prison, then? If drug addiction and murder are out, so too is drunk driving, theft, manslaughter, arson and assault, right? How many people do I have to shoot up for it to be punishable?

You do realize how unsafe this world would be without enforcement of those kinds of laws, right? You'd have to be armed to the teeth to get groceries, not to mention that you might be held up, beaten and robbed after getting said groceries, and finding your house broken into because you were out.

But, as you said, it's just you, so it's not a huge harm to society.

[possiblywrong]

LilPinkCandy

possiblywrong

LilPinkCandy

possiblywrong

Oh no! Lets all give them a comfortable bed, a nice clean toilet and seperate showers! Lets give them some nice healthy food and give them a chocolate cake for desert every day! Give them a nice flat screen tv and the newest laptop while we're at it. They certainly deserved all those nice things after the horrible things they've done to other people, which is why they ended up in prison in the first place stare

I'm glad they're being treated like s**t! Because that's what they are. If you do something bad, you deserve to be punished. Prison is a place you don't want to be so it needs to be a horrible place. That way you scare people of doing stupid bad things. How do you think you would feel if you were a victim? Or someone of your family was a victim? And the criminal who did this to you got all the comfort in prison you will never have because you're too traumatised to go to work so you can't afford anything. How would you feel huh? I'd personally torture the people who ever lay their hands on me or any member of my family.

Prisoners never gave their victims a chance. They torture them, rape them, hurt them, kill them etc. and then you expect the prisoner to be treated well? No, hell no! I say: go ahead and throw them in a dark cave, starve them to death. They need to suffer like they made their victims suffer. And I don't mean capital punishment, I want them to really suffer! Because death brings end to all suffering. So make them suffer! Torture them for all I care! Criminals don't have the right to be treated like kings and queens.

(I would like to point out that I only wish this would happen to the really bad criminals, i.e. (child) rapist, murderers, etc. small criminals like thiefs who never physically harmed another person shouldn't be treated like s**t in my opinion.)

we probably do need a revamp though...
people learn how to be more criminal in prison.... the small criminals shouldn't be anywhere near the terrible guys who killed people. It really is an endless circle of badness though. We want them to suffer, yet they repeat so much- something isn't working....

yeah I know... that's the problem. There should be system where small criminals and the really bad guys should be seperated. Also sentenced for life should really mean FOR LIFE. Because where I live it's not more than 25 years and most of those people are released after half of their sentence because of "good behaviour".

That troubles me... because people can act behaved just so they can carry out their next sceme...
Though, they probably instituted good behavior to let people out because prisons are crowded....

That's exactly what they got in mind when being "good" in prison: so they can get out earlier and continue with whatever they were doing before they were locked up in prison.
Prisons being overcrowded is certainly a big issue over here...no idea how to deal with that problem but releasing dangerous criminals is not a good idea in my opinion, no matter how good they were behaving.
I really hate how our prisons work... in the past year lots of criminals escaped! a few months ago there was an escape every week! It's like they were just letting them escape. That or they've been watching Prison Break

[AlastorFate]

That's what you deserve for committing a crime. If the prison is like a hotel, what do you think might happen?

[Solcrum]

this is one of the biggest problems with our country. the correctional institutions have nothing to do with correcting or institutionalizing. it's like they are in the middle ages with pop culture. completely oblivious to psychology and neuroscience. minus the behaviorist aspect. that's all it is. or was supposed to be. all it does is focus on negative conditioning. you are bad go in a cage. that will teach you. as much as people like to think organisms are robots they are not. a lot of people that have been in jail for a while have no idea how to function outside of it. it doesn't fix them whatsoever. what we need is to have the prison industry pull its head out of its a** and focus on making people better instead of turning them into more hardened criminals when a lot of the folks that go to prison are going there for nonviolent offenses anyway.

[Yamamoto Ryu]

m e t a l 2112

If punishment was up to me, they would all be dead. Hard core capital punishment. All humans deserve rights, prisoners do not. Gays will be punished by god, people who harm people shall be hurt by people!

Well, good thing it's not up to you. You realise how stupid that sounds? "You comitted a crime, so now we'll kill you!" I'm against death penalty, even if it's sex offenders or murderers. Killing another person is still against the law, why should that exclude anyone, even the officials or whoever carry out death punishments?
And you just contradicted yourself. If "all humans deserve rights", then prisoners do, too. Or maybe they weren't human last time you checked? stare And I will be punished by who? What is this "god"-thing you are talking about? rolleyes
I'm not too familiar with how the U.S. treats their prisoners, but I think prisoners should be treated just like all other humans. Surely some need "special" treatments, but not anything that violates the human rights.

[Iggy The Balrog]

You could have just entitled the thread: "Prisoners get treated terribly", or something thereabouts but I suppose that's not your style.

[Brenivin]

Another brick-head like Octane. rolleyes
Criminals give up their basic rights when they choose to commit a crime. If the implication is that they are not human, then why do you want to treat gays lower than that?

Better yet, what did gays have to do with this at all?

[Yamamoto Ryu]

Brenivin

Criminals give up their basic rights when they choose to commit a crime.

No, they don't. Your rights are basis from the human rights law. Just because someone commited a grime, dosen't mean he/she isn't human anymore.

Brenivin

Better yet, what did gays have to do with this at all?

I think the OPer meant that we should focus more on the prisoners than gay rights.

In any case, prisoners already have a set of laws that theoretically should protect them against abuses like this; Standard Minimun Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners. The problem is that most countries aren't following these rules, at all. Punishment will never lead to anything good, rehablitation and enviorment change does. I'm proud to be born in a country were prisoners are treated like any other humans, some even get the chance to get out and working in society again. Also, we have one of the lowest criminality rates in the world. That speaks for itself...

[The Real Macai XXXV]

Hashire-Greywolf

Prison is not a vacation.
you go to prison to be punished for a crime so that you never do it again...not for a "time out", not to make friends, not to hang out".

Prisoners already have too many rights as it is...they get TV, cellmates, alot of social time, excellent meals, etc.

personally, I think the best way to turn someone away from crime is to torment them a little bit...cut off most of their human interaction and 1 hour outdoors for a little fresh air and sunshine (ive never been against anyone having a little one on one time with mother nature). Perhaps making them realize how good life was and what they screwed up will make them appreciate life enough to turn away from crime.

I'm not sure how much the concept of "penitence" influenced our current prison model. Penitence, being, careful reflection on one's own wrongdoings. Hence why prisons are sometimes called "penitentiaries". One is made to sit and think about their criminal and antisocial behavior for extended periods of time (more specifically, months or years). So, yes, it does amount to a very long "time out" in principle.

Do you think prison is meant to be some sort of medieval torture dungeon?

[MissTigerLynn]

araikoe

If you did the crime, then you deserve to serve your sentence. Prison is and never will be a pleasant place. Weeding out corrupt prison guards is both time consuming and impossible to do 100% correctly. As for health care, they must be treated humanely. Enough taxpayer money goes to prisons as it is; in the current economy, don't ask for more money when the national debt in America and the rest of the world is sky-rocketing.

Exactly, They went to prison they deserve what they got, what do you expect A nice hotel room for someone who committed murder?

[Velkyn Faer]

Yamamoto Ryu

Punishment will never lead to anything good

Really? Do you burn your hand on the stove every morning while cooking eggs because you don't understand that touching the hot surface will cause pain? That's the basic philosophy of punishment in general. I commit a crime, I go to jail. Jail is uncomfortable and dirty, and I don't get to watch Desperate Housewives weekly. Maybe I shouldn't commit crimes.

Or we could just treat prisoners like other people, as you suggusted. Just put criminals up in hotels like The Red Lioncage (or something actually imaginative). Except cancel HBO. That'll show 'em.