Prisoners need our help more than gays

[Its Wolfeh]

|°~ The Wolf is not meant for city life ~°|

|°~ But in the wilderness ~°|

I only read maybe the first few sentences.

Honestly, its prison, its not a group home, its not grandma's villa, its not a walk in the park. They are there to pay for what they have done, and they're not supposed to enjoy it, that's the sole purpose as to why they are there.

|°~ It is your Guardian
your Blanket
your Hunter
your Loyal Companion for life ~°|

|°~ Treat it right and it will return the favor ~°|

[LilPinkCandy]

possiblywrong

Oh no! Lets all give them a comfortable bed, a nice clean toilet and seperate showers! Lets give them some nice healthy food and give them a chocolate cake for desert every day! Give them a nice flat screen tv and the newest laptop while we're at it. They certainly deserved all those nice things after the horrible things they've done to other people, which is why they ended up in prison in the first place stare

I'm glad they're being treated like s**t! Because that's what they are. If you do something bad, you deserve to be punished. Prison is a place you don't want to be so it needs to be a horrible place. That way you scare people of doing stupid bad things. How do you think you would feel if you were a victim? Or someone of your family was a victim? And the criminal who did this to you got all the comfort in prison you will never have because you're too traumatised to go to work so you can't afford anything. How would you feel huh? I'd personally torture the people who ever lay their hands on me or any member of my family.

Prisoners never gave their victims a chance. They torture them, rape them, hurt them, kill them etc. and then you expect the prisoner to be treated well? No, hell no! I say: go ahead and throw them in a dark cave, starve them to death. They need to suffer like they made their victims suffer. And I don't mean capital punishment, I want them to really suffer! Because death brings end to all suffering. So make them suffer! Torture them for all I care! Criminals don't have the right to be treated like kings and queens.

(I would like to point out that I only wish this would happen to the really bad criminals, i.e. (child) rapist, murderers, etc. small criminals like thiefs who never physically harmed another person shouldn't be treated like s**t in my opinion.)

we probably do need a revamp though...
people learn how to be more criminal in prison.... the small criminals shouldn't be anywhere near the terrible guys who killed people. It really is an endless circle of badness though. We want them to suffer, yet they repeat so much- something isn't working....

[Repellant]

Its Wolfeh

Honestly, its prison, its not a group home, its not grandma's villa, its not a walk in the park. They are there to pay for what they have done, and they're not supposed to enjoy it, that's the sole purpose as to why they are there.

I take it you equate justice with revenge then. neutral

[SKJC]

You violate the basic social contract, you lose some of your basic societal rights. Kind of how it works.

That said, yes, conditions in prisons in the USA are ******** terrible and it's appalling. The problems of gang activity and prison rape are very serious and it's annoying that most people just laugh them off. Long-term solitary confinement can lead to schizophrenia or psychotic breaks and should not be used as punishment except for people who are a serious danger to the prison population. And we do incarcerate far too many people - welcome to a privatized, for-profit prison system.

Long-term incarceration should include a significant period of time immediately prior to release where an individual, presumably rehabilitated if they're being let out, is given counseling, job training, and short-term exposure to the outside world in order to facilitate their success upon leaving prison. I know some places actually DO stuff like this, and I believe it should become a standard.

Short-term incarceration, I believe, is largely useless. What's the point in locking someone up for a year? Would they be better served with probation, a tracking anklet, and counseling? Very few short-term prison sentences are for major violent crime, and they're usually in minimum or medium security facilities, which are NOTHING like maximum security facilities where people who commit serious crimes are kept.

The goal of incarceration should be twofold: One, to keep dangerous people out of the general population, and two, to rehabilitate people who have made bad choices and gotten into trouble as a result. Too much focus is placed on the first part and too little on the second, which is why so many released prisoners end up back in the system.

[Repellant]

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

And we do incarcerate far too many people - welcome to a privatized, for-profit prison system.

What worries me the most is how willfully law enforcement and courts play their part in the profit mechanism.

[LilPinkCandy]

Irahatam

Prison is a time to reflect on the crime that put one there. To learn about the key trigger in ones self that turned ones life into a nightmare, and to work towards NOT doing it again. But they don't run prisons like that and there's more crime in prison than out of it.
A prison needs to be run like a boot camp. Up by five, down by eight with lots of work in between. None of this play yard stuff where they can continue their illicit activities.
Television should be limited to news stations and various learning channels, with only pre-screened commercials. Movies should be shown as a good behavior reward only.
No internet should be given. If they want their GED or to continue their education they should do so with books.
One should have to earn their right to have a visit from family. When one has earned that right then it should be through windows with telephones. Far too many drugs are passed when family or girlfriends/boyfriends have face to face visits.
And no conjugal visits what so ever.

Honestly, I completely agree. They do what they know best when they are there- crimes. Why? Because that is all they know now, because most of them either grew up like that, or they have gotten themselves in an endless circle of badness. They need to be freed from the circle and onto a road of success that of course, includes punishment.
I agree, they shouldn't have the internet. Its a luxary and most of them probably don't even get it outside of prison... why should they go to prison to get such nice things?
Free gym? why are they given gyms? So they can come out even more buff and built for their next crime? I could never understand this....

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

You violate the basic social contract, you lose some of your basic societal rights. Kind of how it works.

I completely agree with that.

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

That said, yes, conditions in prisons in the USA are ******** terrible and it's appalling. The problems of gang activity and prison rape are very serious and it's annoying that most people just laugh them off.

Well, these people have nothing to do while there except work out so they get bored and commit more crimes.

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

Long-term solitary confinement can lead to schizophrenia or psychotic breaks and should not be used as punishment except for people who are a serious danger to the prison population.

wow then i wonder why we use it. let me guess that it is in a dark room too..

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

And we do incarcerate far too many people - welcome to a privatized, for-profit prison system.

wow... no wonder people end up in jail for little things....

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

Long-term incarceration should include a significant period of time immediately prior to release where an individual, presumably rehabilitated if they're being let out, is given counseling, job training, and short-term exposure to the outside world in order to facilitate their success upon leaving prison. I know some places actually DO stuff like this, and I believe it should become a standard.

That's a great idea and should become the standard.

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

Short-term incarceration, I believe, is largely useless. What's the point in locking someone up for a year? Would they be better served with probation, a tracking anklet, and counseling? Very few short-term prison sentences are for major violent crime, and they're usually in minimum or medium security facilities, which are NOTHING like maximum security facilities where people who commit serious crimes are kept.

The problem is that sometimes counseling isn't enough...

Shoujo Kakumei J-chan

The goal of incarceration should be twofold: One, to keep dangerous people out of the general population, and two, to rehabilitate people who have made bad choices and gotten into trouble as a result. Too much focus is placed on the first part and too little on the second, which is why so many released prisoners end up back in the system.

Yeah, people do cry "lock 'em up!" too fast before even thinking.

[The Real Macai XXXV]

Mokie7

Really? I always thought our prison system was quite lenient compared to the rest of the world... and that's after watching those stupid prison shows that MSNBC shows marathons of on weekends.

Prisons in the United States are lenient compared to some countries. Thing is, most of those countries are in the third world, or communist dictatorships.

LilPinkCandy

If prison were a more pleasant place and not filled with harm, people wouldn't care about being there. It would no longer be a place to fear and no longer deter people from committing crimes...
However, i do believe that when in prison, you lose your rights.

Well, you're right. Draconian punishment does deter crime better than lenient punishment. I guess this justifies cutting people's hands off for stealing and their dicks off for rape.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in the middle ages.

Instead of justifying draconian punishment based on what they did, we should look at why they did it. You'll notice that poorest areas with the densest populations usually also have the most crime per capita. Could this just be a coincidence? Could it also be a coincidence that these places are the ones where individuals have their lives regulated to the greatest extent?

[GunsmithKitten]

He's setting us up for something big here...something really really big....don't fall for it...

[washu_2004]

Once a person crosses the line and becomes a criminal, gets arrested and ends up in jail then they need to be assessed for the harm that their crimes have caused society.

Some criminals can be rehabilitated if they have only committed minor crimes and they need to be given training courses that give them prospects to get employment when they leave prison. This class of criminal can be reformed so they need our help to rejoin society as contributing productive citizens so no expense should be spared in helping them so that they can rejoin society and repair the harm that they have caused.

They also need to be segregated from the second type of criminal, the human garbage, the criminals who have crossed the line so far that they are beyond redemption such as serial murderers, serial rapists and others of that ilk, these scumbags need to be kept under lock and key for the good of society. They have caused irreparable harm to society and have forfeited their right to live in it as a consequence of their actions, the only good that this second type can do now is to serve as warning to others thinking of committing similar crimes.

Gay people on the other hand are no more likely to be a criminal than a straight person. and as such a gay person with a clean criminal record should be able to enjoy the full benefits that society offers without harassment. (by the way being gay is not a crime, and even in regions where it is they are still not criminals in my opinion)

[TheSilverNoble]

Aspen Dream

TheSilverNoble

Sex offenders have it even worse, especially when you consider the things that can get you on that list.

I'll agree that there are some things that can get you on that list that shouldn't, but the recidivism rate for many sexual based offenses is so high that the list and the regulations that come with it are, for the most part, necessary.

Can you source this? Because I've heard that while the recidivism rate is high, its rarely done for another sexual based offense. Usually for things like petty theft.
But in any case, that doesn't really change what I said. If we think they're still so dangerous its better for everyone to leave them in jail.

[UnfunnyKitty]

A lot of people need more help than gays, but the truth is that's how our society is constructed - for at least one group of people to always be alienated or mistreated. It makes people feel more fulfilled. So if I were you, I'd start from the ground up, like getting a political system that works. Good luck with that

[possiblywrong]

LilPinkCandy

possiblywrong

Oh no! Lets all give them a comfortable bed, a nice clean toilet and seperate showers! Lets give them some nice healthy food and give them a chocolate cake for desert every day! Give them a nice flat screen tv and the newest laptop while we're at it. They certainly deserved all those nice things after the horrible things they've done to other people, which is why they ended up in prison in the first place stare

I'm glad they're being treated like s**t! Because that's what they are. If you do something bad, you deserve to be punished. Prison is a place you don't want to be so it needs to be a horrible place. That way you scare people of doing stupid bad things. How do you think you would feel if you were a victim? Or someone of your family was a victim? And the criminal who did this to you got all the comfort in prison you will never have because you're too traumatised to go to work so you can't afford anything. How would you feel huh? I'd personally torture the people who ever lay their hands on me or any member of my family.

Prisoners never gave their victims a chance. They torture them, rape them, hurt them, kill them etc. and then you expect the prisoner to be treated well? No, hell no! I say: go ahead and throw them in a dark cave, starve them to death. They need to suffer like they made their victims suffer. And I don't mean capital punishment, I want them to really suffer! Because death brings end to all suffering. So make them suffer! Torture them for all I care! Criminals don't have the right to be treated like kings and queens.

(I would like to point out that I only wish this would happen to the really bad criminals, i.e. (child) rapist, murderers, etc. small criminals like thiefs who never physically harmed another person shouldn't be treated like s**t in my opinion.)

we probably do need a revamp though...
people learn how to be more criminal in prison.... the small criminals shouldn't be anywhere near the terrible guys who killed people. It really is an endless circle of badness though. We want them to suffer, yet they repeat so much- something isn't working....

yeah I know... that's the problem. There should be system where small criminals and the really bad guys should be seperated. Also sentenced for life should really mean FOR LIFE. Because where I live it's not more than 25 years and most of those people are released after half of their sentence because of "good behaviour".

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

1. Sources, please? rolleyes
2. The fatc that more than one group has their civil rights violated does not mean that we should just pick one and drop all others. Even if prisons are all as terrible as you say, it's still ridiculous that gay and lesbian people do not have the same rights as straight people. Especially when the "reasons" for this are motivated by people's prejudices and personal religious beliefs.
3. I dunno that I believe everything you say happens in prison actually happens, but yes: prisoners are treated horribly and a disturbingly high amount of people in this thread believe that's okay. Yes, you lose some of your rights and privileges when you commit a crime because you deprived someone else of theirs. No, you don't lose all of your rights.

Look at the Bill of Rights. Numbers 4-8 involve thr rights of people accused and convicted of crimes. The status and goodness of a society can often best be seen in the way that society treats its enemies and prisoners. We may incarcerate people, but we have no right to torture them and deprive them of their needs and basic human decency and respect.

[The_Springheeled_Jack]

Aphotic_Viper

well, if prisoners have a problem with the conditions, then they shouldn't have gotten themselves locked in there. It's really there fault that they have to deal with it.

This.

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

SomeKid93

Aphotic_Viper

well, if prisoners have a problem with the conditions, then they shouldn't have gotten themselves locked in there. It's really there fault that they have to deal with it.

This.

Seriously? The majority of ED doesn't buy the "well, if she didn't want a baby she should've remained celibate until menopause!" type anti-abortion arguments, and this is essentially the same thing in a different situation. Why do so many of you think it's valid in this situation? Yes, prison is meant to be a punishment, but we still don't get to torture them and deny them humane treatment. You lose a lot of you rights when you commit a crime, but you don't lose the basic ones.

And honestly, a lot of people are in there because they made stupid mistakes. They need to be rehabilitated more than they need to be punished. And a lot of people are in there for doing totally bullshit victimless "crimes" like using recreational drugs.