Noble Savage

[AznAlex]

First lets get a definitioin of the noble savage:

Main Entry: noble savage
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: a primitive human as characterized in literature, representing natural goodness and simplicity when not encumbered by civilization

Source: www.dictionary.com

The first person that came up with the term noble savage is Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712-177 cool , a famous philosopher. He says that people are borned good, but corruption comes from civilization. Especially from science and technology.


Here is a quote:

In reality, the difference is, that the savage lives within himself while social man lives outside himself and can only live in the opinion of others, so that he seems to receive the feeling of his own existence only from the judgement of others concerning him. It is not to my present purpose to insist on the indifference to good and evil which arises from this disposition, in spite of our many fine works on morality, or to show how, everything being reduced to appearances, there is but art and mummery in even honour, friendship, virtue, and often vice itself, of which we at length learn the secret of boasting; to show, in short, how abject we are, and never daring to ask ourselves in the midst of so much philosophy, benevolence, politeness, and of such sublime codes of morality, we have nothing to show for ourselves but a frivolous and deceitful appearance, honour without virtue, reason withought wisdom, and pleasure without happiness.

~Jean-Jacques Rousseau

My question is do you think there is such a thing as a noble savage? I dont mean recently, i mean throught history, is there such a thing as the noble savage.

For people that read Frankenstein: Do you think the creature that was created by Victor Frankenstein a noble savage?


In my opinoin, there is no such thing as a noble savage. A noble savage is a person that is not corrupted by anything. I think that what Rousseau is really talking about is the human nature and natural instincts. But its also within human instincts to resort to technology, to lessen work. Even since ancient times, humans look for ways to move objects way heavier than they can lift: the pyramids, the stonehengs and ect.

[Pyrokinetic #13]

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

[Sundarsu]

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

"Born bad"? How exactly does that work? Being born without the ability to tell wrong from right?

[D.Darko]

Good and evil are entirely relative, any action can be labelled thusly. A noble savage is only noble because its actions are seen as noble by those civilised enough to classify them.

[LiuPi]

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

are you talking about nature vs nurture?

[-Blind Guardian-]

Doesn't make sense to me. Seeing as what makes a person is socialisation and their reaction to it, no one can possibly be "pure". You are born with natural instincts alone, and those instincts were long ago phased out as they were inadequate. A uneducated child is "unpure" because they know nothing but "pure" in the sense that they have been "untouched". An educated person is "unpure" in the sense that they know about "taboo" subjects, but are "pure" in the fact that they are educated.

Any possible outlook is formed by humanity. So therefore what something actually is, is entirely subjective.

[JLbass]

I don't see the monster of Frankenstein as a noble savage, Victor Frankenstein definitely saw him as one, one monstruous noble savage, and I feel that he meant to destroy it to leave no proof of his own creation, and to no other man could create life as he did; since he, for the morals of his time, had defied God's position.
I love the part when the creature quotes John Milton's Paradise Lost and asks his creator the reasons for his creation. Victor can't answer the truth, because his original reasons were to be proclaimed the most important scientist, his reasons were pride.
He knows that the creature will understand that he is a product of the pride of his creature and that obviousy won't like that.
Returning to the main topic, Victor Frankenstein may seen him at first as a monstruosity, then as a noble savage that needs to be destroyed and finally, as a monstruosity again, because the being is capable of learning, and has a developed conscious of his own.

The creature is indeed noble, but a savage never. He represents mankind and his quest for knowledge of themselves. He wants to be accepted by his own creator.

well, that's what I came after reading it.

[NightdollRavenwing]

D.Darko

Good and evil are entirely relative, any action can be labelled thusly. A noble savage is only noble because its actions are seen as noble by those civilised enough to classify them.

We have a winner!!!!!

[posh_kitten]

NightdollRavenwing

D.Darko

Good and evil are entirely relative, any action can be labelled thusly. A noble savage is only noble because its actions are seen as noble by those civilised enough to classify them.

We have a winner!!!!!

???

[Ater Divinus]

Sundarsu

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

"Born bad"? How exactly does that work? Being born without the ability to tell wrong from right?

Hey dont but into conversations you know nothing about. But it is pretty simple it is basic psychology.

[Ater Divinus]

LiuPi

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

are you talking about nature vs nurture?

exactly what he is talking about

[Gallenger]

Rousseau's greatest idea, *after reading a discorse on inequality some time ago* i believe, was captured in the phrase of "The Current man, to fight man to man with the noble savage would surely die, but given time to gather his instruments the man of technology will triumph" Really i think rousseaus biggest idea was that we are too centered around eachother and should strive to be more individual, the noble savage in his speak likely existed to a certain degree, but not directly as Rousseau makes him seem *savages being independant and antisociali is one of his nontruths*

The noble savage in my opinion is a person perfectly contented and in good heart with himself/herself.

[Kaervik]

Sundarsu

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

"Born bad"? How exactly does that work? Being born without the ability to tell wrong from right?

True, you cant be born bad, your psyche is effected by its surroundings, for example, a child in an abusive environment is most likely going to grow up to be a violent person. One who has a positive environment is most likely going to grow up to be the "norm" again, it all depends on the persons evironment.

[Ater Divinus]

Kaervik

Sundarsu

Pyrokinetic #13

It's environment versus genetics. Some people may be born bad, but raised good.

"Born bad"? How exactly does that work? Being born without the ability to tell wrong from right?

True, you cant be born bad, your psyche is effected by its surroundings, for example, a child in an abusive environment is most likely going to grow up to be a violent person. One who has a positive environment is most likely going to grow up to be the "norm" again, it all depends on the persons evironment.

not true not true not true! Geneticall there is no gene for being bad. BUt there also isnt one for being a good athlete but atheletic parents have athletic kids even if the kids werent raised by them.its all theory anyways

[-Blind Guardian-]

God A.K.A Nothing

not true not true not true! Geneticall there is no gene for being bad. BUt there also isnt one for being a good athlete but atheletic parents have athletic kids even if the kids werent raised by them.its all theory anyways

Um, it is true, anyone who knew Sociology would know that the actions people perform are based on how they were raised and socialised.