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froggymama89

I stated "without sexual intent" to make it clear and not get flooded with people thinking I'ma *****. I understand the bath products thats why I was him and then my husband dries and dresses him while I wash my hair and body and shave


Understandable. Granted even in my post I stated that this country has *****. In which the simplest little innocent acts like bathing with your child is seen as sick and *****. A shame really. This country is ******** up it's own innocent values and treading on where it really doesn't need to tread on. Getting to a point where the government, twisted neighbors, teachers, and everyone else have more rights to parent someone's else child than the actual parents.
 
     
 
This isnt Sparta
Westerners are always uptight about human nudity and sexuality. In other parts of the world, nudity could be seen as no big deal. I dont think that bathing with your young child is a bad thing. Building trust bonds is an important element in a child's development and just bathing in the tub with your baby/ toddler helps build the bond between parent and child. And really? Are you going to make your 2 year old child bathe alone because you dont want western society to view you as some sort of *****? I do think that bathing with your child should stop at a certain age. I say maybe around 5 to 7, they should be starting to bathe alone. Maybe popping in the bathroom every so often to make sure they are taking their bath, or helping them wash themselves, but not getting in the tub with them.


Nice too see someone is well educated on this forum. I fully agree it's beyond retarded thinking that small children are capable of bathing themselves. If someone calls CPA/S it will be a fight.

I think this is one of the reasons why many young adults don't want to start families nowadays. Everyone is so quick to call parents ***** and abusers.
     
froggymama89
Cutie-pie Sleepyhead
Vixianna
Cutie-pie Sleepyhead
Vixianna
I'm not sure what everyone's problem is. I've seen my mom and sister naked since like forever. I'm female btw. There's nothing wrong with it, nor taking a bath with your children(under 5) as long as you use products that won't irritant the babies skin. Seriously though, being naked isn't all that bad, and if my dad isn't home all three of us just barely manage underwear. We don't like clothes. My dad doesn't even wear pants all the time, but he wears boxers so it's cool.
Do you hang out naked with your dad?


I won't wear pants if the night gown is long enough, but I haven't been nude since I was small maybe 6-7 and below. So no he doesn't see me naked, and I don't see him naked, but I sure see my mom and sister naked.
So, same parts is safe, which is interesting because it's true in even most public bath houses and the like. What do you think establishes the standard that males and females should be separate in nudity, regardless of relation?

I for one have no problem with either myself or my husband being nude around our son or any future daughters. We usually have have underwear on. I am most often in a cami and boyshort undies. I believe the stigma is more about the man that same or opposite sex. I have seen that is is more acceptable for a mother to be nude around her son than for a father to be nude around his daughter. It is the old idea that it is the men that are the sex offenders. Even though women are just as capable. If someone heard about a mother bathing with her 4 year old son there would be little if any suspicion of if a father was heard of bathing with his 4 year old daughter CPS would be called in a heartbeat.


This reminds me of one of the first few letters I wrote. One day I read a "Dear Abby" piece about this father who still shared the same bed with his teenage daughter. The girlfriend found it a bit odd and asked Abby was it normal?

Abby quickly said that it was abnormal, had some sexual intent, and suggested professional help. Which pissed me the hell off cause this lady blew off the fact that culture trumps any of that. She didn't know which culture these people belong too. Sure as someone already stated westernizes groups aka "certain white cultures" might find it odd but non-white cultures it's perfectly natural.

Case in point it's all about culture and intent.

As I said I come from a big family filled with siblings, cousins, and so on. We all shared the same beds, and some of us even had to sleep with the adults. However that's just it we were just sleeping. Even if any of us wanted to most of the time we were too damn tired to even consider coping a feel or anything.

I seen both parents, a couple of grandparents, and a host of aunts naked many times during my life. Really I don't think there's a family member I have seen either half naked or full fledged naked.

The irony is I hadn't been "bad touch" or raped by any of them, but I have friends who come from family which nudity is a big NO-NO and they have been sexually abused by family members.

I wish their was some data to if this was a pattern too.
 
     
Just be thankful I replied to your post. Or even made you think about a different viewpoint...
Don't mind me. Just spinning half lies and half truths. kay thanks bai
 
Princess Z-M
froggymama89
Cutie-pie Sleepyhead
Vixianna
Cutie-pie Sleepyhead
Vixianna
I'm not sure what everyone's problem is. I've seen my mom and sister naked since like forever. I'm female btw. There's nothing wrong with it, nor taking a bath with your children(under 5) as long as you use products that won't irritant the babies skin. Seriously though, being naked isn't all that bad, and if my dad isn't home all three of us just barely manage underwear. We don't like clothes. My dad doesn't even wear pants all the time, but he wears boxers so it's cool.
Do you hang out naked with your dad?


I won't wear pants if the night gown is long enough, but I haven't been nude since I was small maybe 6-7 and below. So no he doesn't see me naked, and I don't see him naked, but I sure see my mom and sister naked.
So, same parts is safe, which is interesting because it's true in even most public bath houses and the like. What do you think establishes the standard that males and females should be separate in nudity, regardless of relation?

I for one have no problem with either myself or my husband being nude around our son or any future daughters. We usually have have underwear on. I am most often in a cami and boyshort undies. I believe the stigma is more about the man that same or opposite sex. I have seen that is is more acceptable for a mother to be nude around her son than for a father to be nude around his daughter. It is the old idea that it is the men that are the sex offenders. Even though women are just as capable. If someone heard about a mother bathing with her 4 year old son there would be little if any suspicion of if a father was heard of bathing with his 4 year old daughter CPS would be called in a heartbeat.


This reminds me of one of the first few letters I wrote. One day I read a "Dear Abby" piece about this father who still shared the same bed with his teenage daughter. The girlfriend found it a bit odd and asked Abby was it normal?

Abby quickly said that it was abnormal, had some sexual intent, and suggested professional help. Which pissed me the hell off cause this lady blew off the fact that culture trumps any of that. She didn't know which culture these people belong too. Sure as someone already stated westernizes groups aka "certain white cultures" might find it odd but non-white cultures it's perfectly natural.

Case in point it's all about culture and intent.

As I said I come from a big family filled with siblings, cousins, and so on. We all shared the same beds, and some of us even had to sleep with the adults. However that's just it we were just sleeping. Even if any of us wanted to most of the time we were too damn tired to even consider coping a feel or anything.

I seen both parents, a couple of grandparents, and a host of aunts naked many times during my life. Really I don't think there's a family member I have seen either half naked or full fledged naked.

The irony is I hadn't been "bad touch" or raped by any of them, but I have friends who come from family which nudity is a big NO-NO and they have been sexually abused by family members.

I wish their was some data to if this was a pattern too.

I love this because my dad and sister are very close. My mom was in the hospital a lot when she was pregnant with me. So who was in my sisters life for all those firsts? My dad. He took baths with her, changed her, Watched her first steps, and was her first word. My dad has baby issues (his half brother came into the world and his step mom started treating him and his twin like slaves) and she is the only baby he has ever been close to. He didn't even get close to me until I was about 2. She is 21 now and they still cuddle on the couch. He is her absolute best friend. The only thing I see wrong with their relationship is he had another daughter and barely spent time with her. We really bonded after I was 7 and able to play paintballl and video games. I never saw their relationship as overly affectionate until my husband met my family and in private asked if there was incest going on. I know for a fact he would never even think such a thing but that's what people assume.
     
Princess Z-M
froggymama89

I stated "without sexual intent" to make it clear and not get flooded with people thinking I'ma *****. I understand the bath products thats why I was him and then my husband dries and dresses him while I wash my hair and body and shave


Understandable. Granted even in my post I stated that this country has *****. In which the simplest little innocent acts like bathing with your child is seen as sick and *****. A shame really. This country is ******** up it's own innocent values and treading on where it really doesn't need to tread on. Getting to a point where the government, twisted neighbors, teachers, and everyone else have more rights to parent someone's else child than the actual parents.

I know right? and I have some people say well I guess if you don't touch his privates and I was like ummm....how else will they get clean? besides what do those people think happens when you change a diaper. I learned quickly that I have to make sure willy is pointed down or I'll be changing wet clothes xp
 
     
 
My family is really conservative about nudity and such, but I figure it's more detrimental to a child teach it that they're to be ashamed of their body than it would be for the child to see their mother or father naked. If nudity is a taboo in their family, it might contribute to a negative body image.
     
Almost everyone in my immediate family are nudists.
We grew up knowledgeable about our bodies etc.
Honestly, it didn't ******** us up XD
We were born without clothes and just sort of stuck with it. Of course in public we cover up, just as a courtesy to others (plus, for whatever reason, it's totally not okay to walk around naked in public...which is lame)

Honestly, I think nudity is natural, so why should I be so ashamed of myself that I cover up? Especially in the privacy of my home, hell, it's liberating.
 
     


RayneTree
Listen up you funky c**t fart.
I actually did give you advice.
It was just laced with sarcasm.
 
The Last Reminisce
froggymama89
The Last Reminisce
froggymama89
The Last Reminisce

Nonsexual incest.

So it is incent to get in the tub with your 4 month old baby? Or to let your 3 year old watch you go potty so they know how?

Both......
Now the evil Christians are going to attack everyone! OH NOEZ!

Please elaborate on how it is incest?

How is it not incest? You're getting turned on by your childrens body parts.


Obvious troll is obvious.
     
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/political-pictures-vladimir-putin-jimmys-well.jpg
Vote for me in the Art Arena
I won't lie: I like clothing. I always have. On everyone.
 
     
Have you ever been hungry?

People who have: 24
 
RayneTree
Almost everyone in my immediate family are nudists.
We grew up knowledgeable about our bodies etc.
Honestly, it didn't ******** us up XD
We were born without clothes and just sort of stuck with it. Of course in public we cover up, just as a courtesy to others (plus, for whatever reason, it's totally not okay to walk around naked in public...which is lame)

Honestly, I think nudity is natural, so why should I be so ashamed of myself that I cover up? Especially in the privacy of my home, hell, it's liberating.
That is awesome.
     
http://i33.tinypic.com/314w515.jpg
DID YOU JUST TOUCH MY TRALALA?
RayneTree
Almost everyone in my immediate family are nudists.
We grew up knowledgeable about our bodies etc.
Honestly, it didn't ******** us up XD
We were born without clothes and just sort of stuck with it. Of course in public we cover up, just as a courtesy to others (plus, for whatever reason, it's totally not okay to walk around naked in public...which is lame)

Honestly, I think nudity is natural, so why should I be so ashamed of myself that I cover up? Especially in the privacy of my home, hell, it's liberating.

to be honest I would rather not let the whole world see that my once perfect boobs have sagged to my waist with one over a cup size larger than the other at the ripe old age of 19. Thats what having babies does to you ladies. I think we should cover up in public as a cutesy like how my husband and I curse in out banter at home and not in public. Many people would feel very uncomfortable if they saw a couple pushing a stroller and the husband calls his wife a b***h and she calls him an a*****e and went on about who sucks the bigger d**k. They would assume that maybe we beat each other or we encourage our son to curse but thats not the case. A word is a word and it only has the meaning you give it. b***h is only bad if you say it in a hurtful manor towards a woman. We will teach our son that any word is OK as long as he does not use his words to hurt others and if he accidentally hurts someone to always say sorry. In the same way we chill out in our undies and go out fully clothed. Besides there are some people I would really rather not see in the nude.
 
     
 
ok ive been reading this the whole way through (i posted around page 13 somewhere) but something has caught my intrest alot of people dont want their older children seeing them naked cause they'll ask questions. when did it become wrong for your children to ask questions? isnt that how they learn? i know evey night my daughter asks me a million and one questions cause shes 3 like why nemos mommy gets nomed by a fish or why i cant turn the sun back on so she can go out to play. kids are naturaly inquisitive why should i have to deter her questions about the body. its important and i feel if i dont ill get a call home from her teachers at preschool saying shes playing ill show you mine if you show me yours with a little boy in her class. id much rather my husband (nudist hippie that he is) keep walking around naked so i can answer alll her questions rather than she get knocked up at twelve like most kids seem to be doing today.
     
Nothing wrong with nudity, I saw it alot when I was a kid and I didnt care,.
 
     
 
Sabrith
ok ive been reading this the whole way through (i posted around page 13 somewhere) but something has caught my intrest alot of people dont want their older children seeing them naked cause they'll ask questions. when did it become wrong for your children to ask questions? isnt that how they learn? i know evey night my daughter asks me a million and one questions cause shes 3 like why nemos mommy gets nomed by a fish or why i cant turn the sun back on so she can go out to play. kids are naturaly inquisitive why should i have to deter her questions about the body. its important and i feel if i dont ill get a call home from her teachers at preschool saying shes playing ill show you mine if you show me yours with a little boy in her class. id much rather my husband (nudist hippie that he is) keep walking around naked so i can answer alll her questions rather than she get knocked up at twelve like most kids seem to be doing today.

I Think they are afraid of not having the answers or if they do their kid blabbing the whole thing to everyone and anyone. My husband and I have discussed this. What questions he's likely to ask and the answers to these questions. The biggest question I think we have come up with is "what happened to mommy's willy?" We considered telling him that I played with it too much and it fell off to dissuade him from MB but by the time he's old enough to do that the lie would be busted. And the number one reason we don't do the tooth fairy, easter bunny, or santa is because we don't believe in lieing to our kids. We will probably tell him that Mommy is a girl and girls don't have willies while boys do. Though the biggest question parents are afraid of are sex related. We have it planned out for when he's about 5 and we try for 2 more. Hopefully the subject won't come up until siblings do.We will tell him that when a man and woman love each other they get married and go on a honeymoon...we will not disclose the details of the honeymoon...and sometimes God grows a baby inside the woman's belly. I don't think it is appropriate to use scientific terms and explain how the honeymoon works until they hit puberty I also think this is the parents job to do.
     
FROGGYMAMA89

Need advice? a shoulder to cry on? someone to talk to? feel free to PM me.
I'M HERE TO HELP! XD
Cherrath
http://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Nudity-in-Your-Family

http://www.nctimes.com/news/opinion/columnists/trageser/article_8cfc2fe3-1030-50eb-bf0f-08945f125545.html

http://parenting.ivillage.com/mom/structure/0,,444q,00.html

If anything, clothing is for the sake of the parent, not the child. So is someone going to throw articles back at me, or are we all going to presume we know about the child pyche?

I'm sorry, but I just can't get over the idiocies in in the first source.

http://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Nudity-in-Your-Family
Quote:
How to Practice Nudity in Your Family
Despite the good intentions of many parents, prohibiting household nakedness can have negative consequences for children. In our media saturated urbanized world, children like this are primed with an appetite for nudity related subject matter (of which most is unhealthy.) It takes a bit of work for the affected parent, but you can get over this and help your children to avoid some of these pitfalls of modern living. Fortunately as a parent you have the unique opportunity to provide a healthy environment for nakedness right in the refuge of your own home.

Disclaimer: The purpose here is not to promote public nudity as a method for this How To; quite the contrary (see Warnings section below). This guide is intended primarily as a tool for parents who want to teach their children a wholesome understanding of human nakedness. This How To is intended primarily for use by parents in their home.

StepsEncourage family nudity without being abnormal. Young children have not yet acquired a sophisticated understanding of modesty, and really don't care who sees them naked. This is the time when the parent can mold their conscience without making them self-conscious of nakedness. This, in turn, will help children associate nakedness to routine activity instead of exclusively naughty activity, helping illicit forms of nakedness to lose their appeal later in life.
Start allowing/encouraging family nudity during potty training & continue through the school age years and beyond. You'd be surprised how quickly potty training takes root when your toddler/preschooler is allowed to go bare at home, but...be prepared for occasional "accidents" as well, and handle these situations calmly without anger or revulsion.
Going nude for extended periods in the summer can save lots of money on home air conditioning bills! And if energy costs are not a primary concern, keep your home warm & comfortable during cold weather.
A focal point for nudity that enables the whole family to participate together is very helpful. An indoor swimming pool is ideal, but not practical for most families. Saunas are also excellent for this, but are not as common in the U.S. as Europe. Other water related ideas could be an outdoor pool below or above ground. A cheaper yet more practical idea that works year round would be a hot tub. Children see this as a heated kiddie swimming pool they can use water toys in too.
Allow your children - from birth - to see you in ordinary nude situations (e.g.- dressing, bathing or showering, using the toilet) or any activity where nudity is a natural part. By being comfortable with your own body you will naturally convey the message to your children that nudity really is okay and not something to fear. There are naturally times in life when clothes must be worn for protection, for comfort, and to adhere to societal norms. However, by talking with your children about being comfortable with nudity at home, your children will grow up understanding that being nude & being seen nude at home isn't something "uncool, horrible, and utterly embarrassing."
As they begin to recognize differences between themselves and you or your spouse, explain to them the reason for these differences. Suggested explanations are: "Mommy's breasts are for giving milk to babies like when you were small"? or "Mommy and daddy have hair down here because our bodies are warmer, and it helps keep our bodies cooler (by retaining sweat)."



TipsA great side benefit to wholesome understandings of the naked body in the home is that when the time comes to explain human reproduction, there will be less tension from the children. They will not have the distraction of embarrassment when discussing (what for others can be) 'shameful' body parts. This in turn, will keep the communication lines open during adolescence.
There are many great books on pregnancy and adolescence that separate the romantic (i.e. sexual) aspect from the physiological changes of puberty. These books provide a very neutral clinical look at breast and pubic hair growth during the teen years, and include very candid photos of actual births. Influences like these help separate nudity from sex in the child's mind, and provide a framework where family nudity can flourish to the benefit of all.
Realize that not all shame is bad shame. Good shame is ingrained to help us avoid compromising situations. But other shame is the result of social conditioning during childhood, and unnecessarily predisposes us to clothes compulsiveness.
Respect others' standards. One good approach is to point out that other people are not accustomed to nudity, and it's kind to respect their wishes. This may mean keeping the curtains drawn, or willingly closing the bathroom door when guests are present, for example -- a practice that encourages courtesy, but not shame.
Young adolescents naturally develop increased modesty around the time of puberty. Don't force someone to be nude. Wearing pants for a while may help the transition. Being around other teens who role model comfort with their bodies will be reassuring.
For families where the children are older it may be difficult to change attitudes. In some cases big decisions may need to be made in order to break free from habits. Such changes may include ridding the home of magazines (men's magazines, fashion, or sports related material), television, or other media that subtly foster a "nudity is sex"? mindset. Peers are also part of the equation. It may be necessary to move to another region to get a fresh start. Teenagers especially are very keen on whether the parents walk the talk, so if a parent still models these attitudes so will the teens.
The goal is to provide children the opportunity to see nakedness in a way that is almost non-existant in our society: to make it a neutral, non-sensuous part of everyday life in its proper context. This goes a long way toward innoculating them from the enticements so easily found outside the walls of your home and in the marketplace.
Family nudity will always need to have some form of touching-hugging,kissing,pat on the back,
spankings, etc. You will need to explain what is "good" touching, and what is "uncomfortable" touching-fingers in v****a's, jerking of p***s's, etc. Touching is okay when explaining to child the sexual parts of our bodies, what they are for etc,(call the parts by their real name, not the slangs), and allow touching so that the feelings aren't left with the child that "touching is bad". Children are curious at an early age, and so are most pubecents. Exlain that all seeing is good, not shame, touching for feeling and exploring is okay, but not manually expressing sexual organs.(at least out in the open) If one wants to touch their own vulva or p***s, explain that touching yourself is also okay. You can't learn everything there is to know about our bodies, unless you have looked up close, examined etc. Children will want to examine. It's natural! Be open and relaxed so that the child will not be afraid, to either be naked, or see you naked. That boys and girls, men and women, (in the family), are okay to be naked together, no need for seperation, like they do at school for Gym. Above all, RELAX! Show an atmosphere of joy and freedom, and kids will follow suit. Make nudity at home a happy time. And when you hug, do the full body hug, not just the upper torso hug. That gives a message that bodies can't touch each other while naked. Answer their questions, as was stated above. If Joey points at Amy's vulva and wonders why she doesn't have a p***s and or vice versa, and if Amy points at Bobby's or Dad's erection,(it's bound to happen, guys get them even when they're not thinking about sex! Men or boys of age, get erections just like women's nipples het hard, when exposed to cold, and,... an unknown fact: female clitoris's (SPOKEN VERBALLY- KLITERIS) GET ERECTIONS TOO, within their vulva.), just explain away right there in mixed company. Nudity is best when all are exposed, then everybody learns by seeing and observing and touching. And by the way, when the males in the family get erections, if a family member wants to touch the p***s in a stiff condition, (regardless of gender!),allow them to touch and feel how hard it gets, (but ask the one with erection first if they can touch it), because kids of both genders, when seeing one of those for the first time are gonna want to look and touch, it's natural to want to do so. Family nudity can be done! Just let loose of the nudity is sin/shame mindset, (Adam and Eve were naked and God was not ashamed of them! So why would God be ashamed of your nudity at home?) God created us as beautiful creatures one and all. Guys, don't hide your instantaneous erections, act like it's normal for males to get them from time to time without ANY sexual thoughts at all. And girls don't hide your erect nipples, those too are normal. Our bodies sometimes do things without our minds setting them in motion! It's part of life, enjoy it! Share that with your kids, whatever their age and do it soon, don't wait until all the kids are gone to practice family home nudity! Do it now, and have fun with it-it's life! So keep all the doors open and be open!

Another note about touching while naked. Too many people in our culture are too afraid of the touch, for some reason. It's the mindset-touching=shame/sin. We still have that mindset, that "evil sexual notions/contact, touch/feel, is gonna lead to sex. Not in a young child's mind who doesn't know about sex yet! If you keep the touch/feel on the up and up, like it's a happy thing, a LEARNING thing, a GOOD thing, then the children will respond in kind. For example. all touch/feel situations should ALWAYS be done in the living room, in front of other family members. If you do that, then children will always know that touching/feeling of others in the bedroom is a no-no or non practice. Give children the opportunity to LEARN, at an early age if possible. If they have a question(s), about male erections let them ask, point out what the different parts are doing, and how this action is a very necessary part of life later on. But to know that this action by one's p***s is not a sexual advance of some kind, that a preteen male will sometimes have erections that don't go away easily. They may stay erect for an entire hour! Allow others the opportunity to not beliitle or make fun of "bobby's erection", but to tell him, "Hey way to go Bobby, you can get erections now!" Like it's a stage of life to look forward to, as it is with females breasts. By the same token, when Amy grows "buds" , one could say to her to encourage her, "Hey Amy, looks like you're on your way to growing breasts!" (please don't say boobs, that embarrasses them, believe it or not.)
In the nudity/naturism world everyone is afraid of the almighty male erections. In a public atmosphere where the environment is shared by others, yeah, it might be a problem. But not if you got rid of that touch/feel, sin/shame erection=sex mindset! At home, you are gonna have to make every life change a happy encouraging time. ex: Amy get's pubic hair, Joey gets pubic/underarm hair, Linda grow breasts, Stanley had an all day erection, Sally started her period. Give a great big hoot and a holler for these stages, and make your children feel proud to have acheived these stages! While in the living room, Linda says, "Love that erection you got going there, Joey! Can I touch and feel it?" "Sure Linda, if you let me give you a hug!" Something like that, be creative, find other ways to look at being naked besides sex. We have got to get away from that image or mindset, that just because a male has an erection he wants to have sex. It's not always the case! A cold breeze blowing suddenly will bring one on. Don't act afraid of erections, look at them and enjoy them. It's work of wonder that God did in that part of the male anatomy! It's awesome what God has created in the human body and how it works. Approach your family with this idea, and suddenly the whole mood changes, and we look at each other's nakedness differently. You'll see. Go for it.


WarningsBe careful about with whom you share your family practices. Not all people will easily come to the conclusions you intended. Nudity and sex are still considered to be related in our society; this stems partly from puritanical attitudes, but also from decades of hedonistic influence by the swingers movement, from influences such as Hedomism II in Jamaica, the SunnyDaze Resort in Colorado, and events like n***s-a-Poppin in Indiana.
Although this should be obvious to any well-meaning parent, care is advised during moments of intimacy and marital relations. Since the genitalia are a major source of pleasure during these times, be careful to instead emphasize the primary functions (birth canal, urination) of genitals to younger children. Anything beyond that may overpower their emotional stage of development and work against the wholesome environment you are trying to maintain. Marital intimacy is best left behind closed doors.
Avoid exposing children to nude photography from fine art, or internet sources as some of this has a subtly skewed pornographic message that untrained eyes will not immediately recognize. The best example is you, your spouse, and older siblings or relatives who bring a very real element to human nakedness.
Exercise proper hygiene. When exercising family nudity, always encourage/require the use of a towel for sitting. As any parent can tell you, young children don't always exercise the very best cleaning methods after using the potty. Don't be embarrassed about teaching good, healthy personal toileting hygiene to your children. They look to you to teach them properly and correctly.

NO.
 
     
----------------- Jews in Space! --------------------
I've been a Reform Jew all my life. Rabbi one day?



Gehenna for me is OCD and Aspergers Syndrome tendencies.
------------------ Hava Nagila! --------------------
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