Men and Women. no they're not equal

[SparklyDoughnut]

le fromage terrible

ratrapid

le fromage terrible

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

I feel deeply insulted by your claim that women like pretty glitsy things. The rest of your post just didn't make any sense.

The rest of the post made fantastic sense. Why would you be deeply insulted? In general women do tend to llike "pretty glitsy things". Hense the glitter make up they wear to parties etc. Stop acting as though the characteristics of generations of men and women do not exist. Bloody righteous teens. I'm 14 and I can tell that.

IF (and that's a pretty big if) we go ahead and assume that women like "pretty glitsy things", how could you possibly explain this scientifically? Is there a "pretty glitsy thing"-gene in all women? Or could the female habits of putting glitter in their faces possibly come from the way girls are brought up?
EDIT: Oh, and I'm old enough to be your mother. Nearly.
From early childhood girls are brainwashed by parents, tv and the rest of the world in general. Girls wear pink, boys wear blue, girls play with dolls, boys play with toy guns. Girls are taught from the beginning that they have to please men.

It's not just the way they're brought up. My mother was pretty much a tomboy throughout my entire childhood, and today, I make the "I like pretty glitzy make up and shoes" thing on my own. Sure, I may have been influenced by friends on some levels, but everyone is influenced by something. And is pretty glitzy stuff such a bad thing? I like it because I'm attracted to it. I began becoming attracted to it at puberty, and I use it in my art. There is a whole spectrum of gender, and I think it may be down to something hormonal.
And what about male->female transsexuals? They were probably brought up as boys, right? And a lot of them like glittery things too?

[Hashire-Greywolf]

The_Muffin_Puppy

What is with this genders don't exist crap? Men produce sperm and women produce eggs. Men tend to be more physically fit due to evolution, women have broader hips. (Not really a good comparrison but hey.)) Also what was that with men having breasts? No they don't they can't lactat (SP?) so they are not breasts they are rolls of flab.
Anyway genderless society=bad. Very bad, Men and women different but should be equal, they aren't though. Men are treated worse in some aspects and women in other.

Men can lactate.
Its been proven, only they dont do it like women do. Its not common for a man to lactate, but its not unnatural if they do.

Its just like breast cancer. Men can get it, but theyre not prone to it like women are.

[The_Muffin_Puppy]

Nakhoma of Martivir

The_Muffin_Puppy

What is with this genders don't exist crap? Men produce sperm and women produce eggs. Men tend to be more physically fit due to evolution, women have broader hips. (Not really a good comparrison but hey.)) Also what was that with men having breasts? No they don't they can't lactat (SP?) so they are not breasts they are rolls of flab.
Anyway genderless society=bad. Very bad, Men and women different but should be equal, they aren't though. Men are treated worse in some aspects and women in other.

Men can lactate.
Its been proven, only they dont do it like women do. Its not common for a man to lactate, but its not unnatural if they do.

Its just like breast cancer. Men can get it, but theyre not prone to it like women are.

Really men lactate? Didn't know that, but does that really mean they have breasts.

[Spatterdash]

SparklyDoughnut

And what about male->female transsexuals? They were probably brought up as boys, right? And a lot of them like glittery things too?

They might have been brought up as the opposite sex, but they'll have absorbed people's ideas about their actual gender and how they should behave, too. Also, a lot of transsexuals either consciously or subconsciously overcompensate a little by playing up to roles more than usual, in the hope people will take them more seriously.

[le fromage terrible]

ratrapid

le fromage terrible, you yourself are treating the traditional roles of women badly and though I dont agree with them that makes you a hypocrite.

I didn't get it. How am I a hypocrite?

[Lily Richardson]

The_Muffin_Puppy

Nakhoma of Martivir

The_Muffin_Puppy

What is with this genders don't exist crap? Men produce sperm and women produce eggs. Men tend to be more physically fit due to evolution, women have broader hips. (Not really a good comparrison but hey.)) Also what was that with men having breasts? No they don't they can't lactat (SP?) so they are not breasts they are rolls of flab.
Anyway genderless society=bad. Very bad, Men and women different but should be equal, they aren't though. Men are treated worse in some aspects and women in other.

Men can lactate.
Its been proven, only they dont do it like women do. Its not common for a man to lactate, but its not unnatural if they do.

Its just like breast cancer. Men can get it, but theyre not prone to it like women are.

Really men lactate? Didn't know that, but does that really mean they have breasts.

As far as I'm aware, they have all the necessary equipment to lactate, but lack the estrogen and possibly progesterone (not totally up on my hormones, it's been a while since I finished biology) that comes after pregnancy which produces milk. It happens commonly in male and female infants alike due to their high intake of the female hormones that comes from breastfeeding. So yes, they have breasts, but they are generally somewhat flat. | o | o |

[Nastalya]

People are people no matter what body their soul happened to be placed into.
I like where society is going. People need to stop judging people for traits they didn't choose.

[le fromage terrible]

SparklyDoughnut

It's not just the way they're brought up. My mother was pretty much a tomboy throughout my entire childhood, and today, I make the "I like pretty glitzy make up and shoes" thing on my own. Sure, I may have been influenced by friends on some levels, but everyone is influenced by something. And is pretty glitzy stuff such a bad thing? I like it because I'm attracted to it. I began becoming attracted to it at puberty, and I use it in my art. There is a whole spectrum of gender, and I think it may be down to something hormonal.
And what about male->female transsexuals? They were probably brought up as boys, right? And a lot of them like glittery things too?

Ok, first off - there's nothing wrong with pretty shiny pink glittery things, nor the fact that you like them. Pretty glitsy stuff can be really pretty. But then there shouldn't be anything wrong with a 40 year old accountant named Bob (straight, married with two kids) liking them either, right?
The other day my sisters little girl (5) came home from daycare, crying because the other kids had teased her for not wearing pink clothes. That's just ******** up. Switch on the telly on a weekend morning and watch the ads for toys. Then tell me you don't think a kid is affected by that s**t.

[Dr_Congressman]

ratrapid

Okay here is my view explained in depth, it could seem very complex to understand but then it's a complex idea.
I believe men and women are inequal. That means that they arent good at the same things, so their values differ in different fields. Therefore there worth is different. Mostly(NOTICE THE "MOSTLY" DO NOT GIVE ME INDIVIDUAL CASES) men are better athletes as mostly they are physically stronger. To be honest, is there anything wrong with a woman doing the food shopping instead of a man when a woman is better at doing that? Is there anything wrong with a woman being a secretary if she is more organised? Wake up and realise that they are not equal. Men tend to feel they need to be important, while women are happy if they dont get all the credit. The difference in the hormones is shown there. However I like knowing these differences, expanding upon these ideas and accepting them. I know of the socially inforced gender roles and I know of people who do not fit these roles. le fromage terrible, you yourself are treating the traditional roles of women badly and though I dont agree with them that makes you a hypocrite.

Inequal isn't a word. You are so smart.

You can find two men that aren't good at the same things so shut the hell up. Yes men tend to be physically stronger that doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of women just as strong and stronger so that still can't be discriminated against. I am a man and I don't want to be important at all. And please show me a woman that wouldn't want all the credit for something she did. That is stupid as hell. You are sexist.

[Lily Richardson]

ratrapid

Okay here is my view explained in depth, it could seem very complex to understand but then it's a complex idea.
I believe men and women are inequal. That means that they arent good at the same things, so their values differ in different fields. Therefore there worth is different. Mostly(NOTICE THE "MOSTLY" DO NOT GIVE ME INDIVIDUAL CASES) men are better athletes as mostly they are physically stronger. To be honest, is there anything wrong with a woman doing the food shopping instead of a man when a woman is better at doing that? Is there anything wrong with a woman being a secretary if she is more organised? Wake up and realise that they are not equal. Men tend to feel they need to be important, while women are happy if they dont get all the credit. The difference in the hormones is shown there. However I like knowing these differences, expanding upon these ideas and accepting them. I know of the socially inforced gender roles and I know of people who do not fit these roles. le fromage terrible, you yourself are treating the traditional roles of women badly and though I dont agree with them that makes you a hypocrite.

How is one gender better at grocery shopping?? I wasn't aware that it took any special talent at all to pull items off of a shelf and put them into a buggy, and then place them on a conveyor belt and pay for them. Jesus, all this time I've had a secret special talent that only chicks have, and I didn't even know about it!

And hey!

Who cares if I spend 72 odd hours working on a project with friends and my guy friend gets all the credit for the project, even though I did most of the work!

-Giggle- I don't know! I'm just a girl!

/endsarcasm

You're making women out to be totally vapid imbeciles who don't mind being submissive in every way to men.

I agree with you that men and women are not physically the same, but I agree with Spatterdash in that we deserve equality despite our differences. There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with willfully conforming to a gender role (ie, you WANT to be a secretary, or you WANT to be an athlete), but there is something wrong with not hiring a good male secretary on the basis that women "generally make better secretaries, so we're looking for someone with more estrogen. Thanks for reordering our filing system in the twenty minutes you were here, though!"

[Amara_The_Eternal]

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

agreed

[Seraphor]

ratrapid

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Look at the word equality. Am I talking bout equality or equal rights/treatment? I'm talking about equality, does pebble=rock? No. Is either better? Not really.

If neither pebble nor rock is better than the other, than both pebble and rock are equal.

[Cardinal Sign]

Seraphor

ratrapid

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Look at the word equality. Am I talking bout equality or equal rights/treatment? I'm talking about equality, does pebble=rock? No. Is either better? Not really.

If neither pebble nor rock is better than the other, than both pebble and rock are equal.

The pebble is a rock but the rock is not necessarily a pebble. One does not equal the other because one is a subcategory of the other. Better is only defined by what you're looking for.

[ratrapid]

UsagiHeika

Seraphor

ratrapid

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Look at the word equality. Am I talking bout equality or equal rights/treatment? I'm talking about equality, does pebble=rock? No. Is either better? Not really.

If neither pebble nor rock is better than the other, than both pebble and rock are equal.

The pebble is a rock but the rock is not necessarily a pebble. One does not equal the other because one is a subcategory of the other. Better is only defined by what you're looking for.

If just one person can get me, I'm happy biggrin . My pebble and rock analogy was done deliberately like that. I could of said a pebble and a leaf but they arent the same yet different. Actually I notice women feel less need to be praised for their work (not saying they shouldnt be) and I notice that a woman is better at multitasking, a skill which is useful in shopping.
No woman would complain if I called them a safer driver, so why complain if I call them a better shopper?

[Seraphor]

UsagiHeika

Seraphor

ratrapid

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Look at the word equality. Am I talking bout equality or equal rights/treatment? I'm talking about equality, does pebble=rock? No. Is either better? Not really.

If neither pebble nor rock is better than the other, than both pebble and rock are equal.

The pebble is a rock but the rock is not necessarily a pebble. One does not equal the other because one is a subcategory of the other. Better is only defined by what you're looking for.

So females are a subcategory of males? Since when?