Men and Women. no they're not equal

[le fromage terrible]

ratrapid

And another thing that annoys me is how much females harp on about the plight of women. Yes, they werent treated fairly. Yes, things have changed for the better. Now they are heading for a better future how about getting on with life instead of pretending that you didnt get a job because your female or something.

Women are still not treated fairly. Men are still chosen before women for all kinds of work. Men still get higher wages. Men still beat up their wives and get away with it. Men still favour men in all kinds of contexts. Until we have equal rights there's no reason to stop "harping on about the plight of women".

ratrapid

actually, some jobs are better suited for men and vice versa. And women will naturally be better at some jobs than men. Of course this isnt the unflexible rule but it is the general rule.

This was true in the times when we didn't have machines to lift heavy things.

ratrapid

Can we discuss why people think a genderless society is the way forward, or the differences is general between men and women (in terms of personality traits, skills etc(do NOT tell me men have a p***s and women have a v****a))

Genderless in the meaning that you should be treated equal no matter what gender you belong to. Or rather, that gender shouldn't be a consideration at all.

Men and women do not have gender-specific personality traits.

[Astoru]

ratrapid

Dr_Congressman

ratrapid

IS all of the culture induced gender differences a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that I happen to enjoy football (soccer to americans) and that my friends who are girls enjoy shopping? If we enjoy these things is that a problem? A girl is socially accepted if she wants to watch football. However, it isnt so when a boy enjoys shopping so much. Is this a bad thing? Testosterone is the hormone that men have a lot more of than women. This hormone is needed for growth and actually it has been proven by brainiac science abuse (not a great source but this experiment was logical) that by doing things percieved as being manly will increase the levels of testosterone produced while doing things that arent so physical reduce it. So really it could even stunt growth if we become genderless.

People used to think that lifting weights stunted your growth, when that is the exact opposite. I would like for you to show me a source that says that men don't or won't grow as well if they were to take on female gender roles.

I said it could. Not that it would. It's all educated speculation. I noticed your thread which was real ranting. Are you seriously trying to tell me that men and women (IN GENERAL) display the same personality traits? I'm not against equal rights, but I do not believe men and women are equal. Not saying one is beter than the other. I personally do not hold you in the greatest esteem Dr Congressman. This is not meant just to throw insults at you but shouting at women to take up arms will just create a huge rift between the genders and alienate each other. I'm up for accepting the differences and learning about them, which I have proven by posting this topic.

Male growth will ALWAYS be the same, despite what activities one participates in. The only thing that would severely stunt growth would be eating habits during puberty.

[source]

[ratrapid]

Right. Let me get a few things straight here.
1)Men and Women DO have different personality traits. It is science. Estrogen= more feminine behavioural characteristics
Testosterone= more masculine behavioural characteristics
2)I do not believe men are better than women. I do not believe women are better than men. I believe they are inequal and different

I knew that after the initial good responses, the air headed "lets b***h about something that can be controversy" would stumble in.

[le fromage terrible]

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

I feel deeply insulted by your claim that women like pretty glitsy things. The rest of your post just didn't make any sense.

[Cardinal Sign]

le fromage terrible

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

I feel deeply insulted by your claim that women like pretty glitsy things. The rest of your post just didn't make any sense.

Agreed... what? I see where you are going with this but you're still a little unclear.

[le fromage terrible]

ratrapid

Right. Let me get a few things straight here.
1)Men and Women DO have different personality traits. It is science. Estrogen= more feminine behavioural characteristics
Testosterone= more masculine behavioural characteristics
2)I do not believe men are better than women. I do not believe women are better than men. I believe they are inequal and different

I knew that after the initial good responses, the air headed "lets b***h about something that can be controversy" would stumble in.

And which exactly are these behavioural characteristics? What personality traits are caused by hormones? Do tell.

I agree that men and women are different. Not sure I'm going to let down on the equal though. The word equal is not synonymous with the word identical.

And why in the name of Merlins saggy left___ did you post in the ED if you didn't want controversy? You just started this topic to get people who already agree with you to come and pat you on the back?

[ratrapid]

le fromage terrible

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

I feel deeply insulted by your claim that women like pretty glitsy things. The rest of your post just didn't make any sense.

The rest of the post made fantastic sense. Why would you be deeply insulted? In general women do tend to llike "pretty glitsy things". Hense the glitter make up they wear to parties etc. Stop acting as though the characteristics of generations of men and women do not exist. Bloody righteous teens. I'm 14 and I can tell that.

[Cardinal Sign]

le fromage terrible

ratrapid

Right. Let me get a few things straight here.
1)Men and Women DO have different personality traits. It is science. Estrogen= more feminine behavioural characteristics
Testosterone= more masculine behavioural characteristics
2)I do not believe men are better than women. I do not believe women are better than men. I believe they are inequal and different

I knew that after the initial good responses, the air headed "lets b***h about something that can be controversy" would stumble in.

And which exactly are these behavioural characteristics? What personality traits are caused by hormones? Do tell.

I agree that men and women are different. Not sure I'm going to let down on the equal though. The word equal is not synonymous with the word identical.

And why in the name of Merlins saggy left___ did you post in the ED if you didn't want controversy? You just started this topic to get people who already agree with you to come and pat you on the back?

For me, PMS. I don't know what it is but I'm mad at the world for no reason. Granted, I control it but I have no logical reason for feeling the way I do besides hormones.

"I agree that men and women are different. Not sure I'm going to let down on the equal though. The word equal is not synonymous with the word identical."
I agree wholeheartedly.

[Seraphor]

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

[le fromage terrible]

UsagiHeika

le fromage terrible

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

I feel deeply insulted by your claim that women like pretty glitsy things. The rest of your post just didn't make any sense.

Agreed... what? I see where you are going with this but you're still a little unclear.

I'm just saying that the idea that a genderless society would make the economy collapse is just - moronic.
I wouldn't be surprised if it is indeed mainly women who shop. I would be even less surprised if what they are primarily buying is in fact not "pretty glitsy things" but food and supplies for their homes. Because a majority of women are still expected to take care of that kind of thing.

[Kira_Nirvanna]

Methcalarjalope

Kira_Nirvanna

. . . I think the general point of the message of gender equality is that men and women are equally deserving of equally fair treatment. Men and women are indeed different, however, regardless of what gender might typically be considered as better for a particular job, the capabilities of the individual, not a blanket assumption about the person's gender should be what decides weather or not someone gets job X.

Our preception of gender and what it "means" to be male or female affects our judgment. Males are promoted because of the cultural fiction about males.

For the record, I agree with you about Gender being a cultural Myth. I think I understand it enough to do so anyway. People really need to drop all their preconceived notions and re-examine things.

[Dr_Congressman]

ratrapid

Dr_Congressman

ratrapid

IS all of the culture induced gender differences a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that I happen to enjoy football (soccer to americans) and that my friends who are girls enjoy shopping? If we enjoy these things is that a problem? A girl is socially accepted if she wants to watch football. However, it isnt so when a boy enjoys shopping so much. Is this a bad thing? Testosterone is the hormone that men have a lot more of than women. This hormone is needed for growth and actually it has been proven by brainiac science abuse (not a great source but this experiment was logical) that by doing things percieved as being manly will increase the levels of testosterone produced while doing things that arent so physical reduce it. So really it could even stunt growth if we become genderless.

People used to think that lifting weights stunted your growth, when that is the exact opposite. I would like for you to show me a source that says that men don't or won't grow as well if they were to take on female gender roles.

I said it could. Not that it would. It's all educated speculation. I noticed your thread which was real ranting. Are you seriously trying to tell me that men and women (IN GENERAL) display the same personality traits? I'm not against equal rights, but I do not believe men and women are equal. Not saying one is beter than the other. I personally do not hold you in the greatest esteem Dr Congressman. This is not meant just to throw insults at you but shouting at women to take up arms will just create a huge rift between the genders and alienate each other. I'm up for accepting the differences and learning about them, which I have proven by posting this topic.

If it is a hypothesis then there is no viable proof yet, so why bother. No I am not telling you that man and women have the same personality traits.NO ONE DOES. You said men and women
aren't equal and they are. I am not asking you to hold me up for any reason. I don't even know what you are talking about when it comes to this. I never asked a woman to take up arms, but to not take this laying down. You need to learn the difference between gender and the sex.

[ratrapid]

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Look at the word equality. Am I talking bout equality or equal rights/treatment? I'm talking about equality, does pebble=rock? No. Is either better? Not really.

[Dr_Congressman]

Seraphor

Equal =/= Same

Men and Women are not the same, but they are Equal.
To say they are not equal is to say that one is better than the other.

Seraphor you do post good things. And here I agree with you.

[Spatterdash]

Equal, in an ethical context, doesn't mean 'exactly the same'. It means 'of the same worth'. Nobody can deny that men and women are physically different; that's blatant and obvious fact that stares us in the face. The issue is over the idea that men and women have different personalities, and that having different personalities justifies treating one sex with less respect than the other.
I'm of the opinion that there are definite male and female tendencies caused by hormones and brain structure, but that these tendencies aren't hard and fast rules. An aggressive woman may be rarer than an aggressive man, but that doesn't mean no women can be aggressive - or that aggression in a man is normal and admirable but unnatural and unpleasant in women.
I'm also of the opinion that a lot of differences between the sexes are entirely cultural. And heck, even if every man and every woman naturally choose different things, it's unfair that the female things are seen as inferior. A man can be obsessed with sports and he's normal. A woman can be obsessed with fashion and she's seen as silly and shallow. Not to mention that it also hurts all the millions of women who love sports and men who love fashion - though you'll notice the latter would be much more reluctant to admit it, because being a man who likes 'feminine' things is more stigmatised than being a woman who likes 'masculine' things.
Oh, and don't forget that not everybody, either physically or mentally (or both) actually fits neatly into a category of male or female. Thousands of people are born intersexed every year. Hundreds more are transgendered.

I don't think the categories of male or female will ever be removed. But I think it would be more pleasant for all of us if we stop assuming so much nonsensical crap about each other based on what sex we are, because it does over half the population no favours at all.