Men and Women. no they're not equal

[GunsmithKitten]

Long as I have equality of OPPURTUNITY, I got no gripes. After that, give me your worst.

[Methcalarjalope]

Kira_Nirvanna

. . . I think the general point of the message of gender equality is that men and women are equally deserving of equally fair treatment. Men and women are indeed different, however, regardless of what gender might typically be considered as better for a particular job, the capabilities of the individual, not a blanket assumption about the person's gender should be what decides weather or not someone gets job X.

Our preception of gender and what it "means" to be male or female affects our judgment. Males are promoted because of the cultural fiction about males.

[Methcalarjalope]

GunsmithKitten

Long as I have equality of OPPURTUNITY, I got no gripes. After that, give me your worst.

As it stands now we have the appearance of opportunity. The job is there and anyone may apply for it. Yet because of our perceptions about what men are and what men "do" and what women are and what women "do" it is likely that another woman who is rating you for the opening will pass you over in favor of a male applicant.

[Indigo18]

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

Second.

[Feyre]

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

Uh dude, most people who shop are female because historically women were assigned to household tasks, it's a cultural, not a genetic thing.

[Dr_Congressman]

psychedelic-squirrel

So? Individuals will be good at different things too.

I don't think that a genderless society is the way to go, but I would like to see one where men and women aren't shoved into tiny boxes just because they have a p***s or a v****a, i.e. one where they're free to adopt/express whatever gender roles they want.

Another note: I've noticed that whatever women are deemed to be good at tends to be valued less. Maybe this is a factor in women's complaints as well?

Yes nursing jobs have gone down in wages. But is that because of a flood of woman or just because of the flood of people who are trained for the job?

[ratrapid]

IS all of the culture induced gender differences a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that I happen to enjoy football (soccer to americans) and that my friends who are girls enjoy shopping? If we enjoy these things is that a problem? A girl is socially accepted if she wants to watch football. However, it isnt so when a boy enjoys shopping so much. Is this a bad thing? Testosterone is the hormone that men have a lot more of than women. This hormone is needed for growth and actually it has been proven by brainiac science abuse (not a great source but this experiment was logical) that by doing things percieved as being manly will increase the levels of testosterone produced while doing things that arent so physical reduce it. So really it could even stunt growth if we become genderless.

[Dr_Congressman]

ratrapid

Before I put down the welcome mat for flamers by writing my title, just think beyond "omfg, hes like being sexist" and think about it. Women arent men. Men arent women. Therefore they are not equal (notice the lack of me saying that one sex is better). They're good at different things. Men produce more testosterone than women, women produce more estrogen than men. That means they act differently. I am talking in general here, there are going to be people who dont fit into this of course, but there will be many more who do. What is starting to get to me is this idea that a genderless culture is the way forward. It isnt. And another thing that annoys me is how much females harp on about the plight of women. Yes, they werent treated fairly. Yes, things have changed for the better. Now they are heading for a better future how about getting on with life instead of pretending that you didnt get a job because your female or something. Women arent equal to men. Men arent equal to women. its like picking up a shark and a lion and saying that they are both types of butterflies. Now this may be a rant by actually, some jobs are better suited for men and vice versa. And women will naturally be better at some jobs than men. Of course this isnt the unflexible rule but it is the general rule.
Can we discuss why people think a genderless society is the way forward, or the differences is general between men and women (in terms of personality traits, skills etc(do NOT tell me men have a p***s and women have a v****a))

I love this hahaha. Two men are different and two women are different. Besides the biological differences there isn't any more than there is between any other two individuals.

[Cardinal Sign]

Methcalarjalope

UsagiHeika

Methcalarjalope

Does anyone know what I mean about gender being a cultural fiction?

Penises on men. Breasts on women. Obviously not fiction. (I won't get into trans-gender or hermaphrodites because its rare) But yes, a person shouldn't be defined on what they like or do just because of the gender. It happens because of predisposition and physical limitations.

The clitorus is analogous to the p***s and yes men do actually have breasts. Gender is cultural fiction. The Y gene is short some material. There are all kinds of humans with different allelese and even extra chromosomes or chromosomes missing. This doesn't make them any less human. We are humans not "men" and "women." This cultural fiction is like the fiction of "race." There is no such thing as race.

(Breasts on men... sweatdrop )

They are human but deformity makes a person die quicker. Some don't but that's evolution.

Men and women is a subcategory of human. All of us are human but not everyone can be a man and not everyone can be a woman. Like computers, apple and windows is a subcategory of computer. A windows is not an apple but it's a computer. An apple is not a windows but it's also a computer. They're both different but are similar at the same time. They function similarly but either has it's strengths and weaknesses depending on what they were built with.

Again race is a subcategory of human, defined by where they were born or originated.

[Dr_Congressman]

UsagiHeika

Methcalarjalope

UsagiHeika

Methcalarjalope

Does anyone know what I mean about gender being a cultural fiction?

Penises on men. Breasts on women. Obviously not fiction. (I won't get into trans-gender or hermaphrodites because its rare) But yes, a person shouldn't be defined on what they like or do just because of the gender. It happens because of predisposition and physical limitations.

The clitorus is analogous to the p***s and yes men do actually have breasts. Gender is cultural fiction. The Y gene is short some material. There are all kinds of humans with different allelese and even extra chromosomes or chromosomes missing. This doesn't make them any less human. We are humans not "men" and "women." This cultural fiction is like the fiction of "race." There is no such thing as race.

(Breasts on men... sweatdrop )

They are human but deformity makes a person die quicker. Some don't but that's evolution.

Men and women is a subcategory of human. All of us are human but not everyone can be a man and not everyone can be a woman. Like computers, apple and windows is a subcategory of computer. A windows is not an apple but it's a computer. An apple is not a windows but it's also a computer. They're both different but are similar at the same time. They function similarly but either has it's strengths and weaknesses depending on what they were built with.

Again race is a subcategory of human, defined by where they were born or originated.

Gender is created. Sex is a reality.
Race is created. Different Physical attributes are reality.

Categories...

[Dr_Congressman]

ratrapid

IS all of the culture induced gender differences a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that I happen to enjoy football (soccer to americans) and that my friends who are girls enjoy shopping? If we enjoy these things is that a problem? A girl is socially accepted if she wants to watch football. However, it isnt so when a boy enjoys shopping so much. Is this a bad thing? Testosterone is the hormone that men have a lot more of than women. This hormone is needed for growth and actually it has been proven by brainiac science abuse (not a great source but this experiment was logical) that by doing things percieved as being manly will increase the levels of testosterone produced while doing things that arent so physical reduce it. So really it could even stunt growth if we become genderless.

People used to think that lifting weights stunted your growth, when that is the exact opposite. I would like for you to show me a source that says that men don't or won't grow as well if they were to take on female gender roles.

[Dr_Congressman]

SparklyDoughnut

I agree. We aren't equal, because we are different.
Economically, I think a genderless society would pretty much ruin us. Shopping, for example. The majority of people who shop are female. Most shops have pretty glitsy things that women like. If we were personality-wise genderless, we wouldn't be able to sell things.
Most of what is sold in shops is tailored to gender, because without gender, it would be difficult to design a product that would attract half of the population.

Who creates what a certain gender desires when they shop?

[Cardinal Sign]

Dr_Congressman

Gender is created. Sex is a reality.
Race is created. Different Physical attributes are reality.

Categories...

If there is a word for it, it has to exist on some level because we can acknowledge it.

[Dr_Congressman]

UsagiHeika

Dr_Congressman

Gender is created. Sex is a reality.
Race is created. Different Physical attributes are reality.

Categories...

If there is a word for it, it has to exist on some level because we can acknowledge it.

Oh yeah they exist on a level, but hopefully through education more people can get beyond that.

[ratrapid]

Dr_Congressman

ratrapid

IS all of the culture induced gender differences a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that I happen to enjoy football (soccer to americans) and that my friends who are girls enjoy shopping? If we enjoy these things is that a problem? A girl is socially accepted if she wants to watch football. However, it isnt so when a boy enjoys shopping so much. Is this a bad thing? Testosterone is the hormone that men have a lot more of than women. This hormone is needed for growth and actually it has been proven by brainiac science abuse (not a great source but this experiment was logical) that by doing things percieved as being manly will increase the levels of testosterone produced while doing things that arent so physical reduce it. So really it could even stunt growth if we become genderless.

People used to think that lifting weights stunted your growth, when that is the exact opposite. I would like for you to show me a source that says that men don't or won't grow as well if they were to take on female gender roles.

I said it could. Not that it would. It's all educated speculation. I noticed your thread which was real ranting. Are you seriously trying to tell me that men and women (IN GENERAL) display the same personality traits? I'm not against equal rights, but I do not believe men and women are equal. Not saying one is beter than the other. I personally do not hold you in the greatest esteem Dr Congressman. This is not meant just to throw insults at you but shouting at women to take up arms will just create a huge rift between the genders and alienate each other. I'm up for accepting the differences and learning about them, which I have proven by posting this topic.