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shoeless joe
Did I just see someone arguing that marijuana should be illegal because it impairs driving ability for days after you use it?


Yeah. You saw it.
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It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?


Your judgement is affected, in your mind. It doesn't have to show obvious physical effects.


Until you understand how the body works, namely the blood-brain barrier and how nitrients are stoeed and released in fat cells, don't open your retarded mouth. Roght now there are kids in basic biology reading your posts going "wow i havenevemet somebo
so ******** stupid they couldnt grasp simple chapter 1 physiology."


Infact everything youve said flies in the face of science in such a way, im tempted to say youre acting stupid
I live in a state that has legalized medicinal marijuana, and its honestly a joke to say that this policy has kept its use strictly for legitimate medical uses. Provided you find a sympathetic doctor to prescribe it to you, you can get it for just about everything. For my own interest, I went in to a dispensary to see what it would take for me to get some. Told the guy I have some old hand injuries, referred me to an in-house doc, he signed off on it, and I was official. The doc went on my word alone.

The only thing that keeps everyone from using it for medical reasons is that there are few dispensaries because of/fear of federal raids and there is still personal and social stigma surrounding it.
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I think the biggest thing that gets me wanting to legalize marijuana is the Drug War. I live close to the border, and legalizing the stuff will either wipe out the Drug War or at least help to minimize it. Honestly I want all that hostility gone. The only reason the gangs are taking over is because they have the money capable of fighting against the Mexican army, and how they get that money? Through selling marijuana and other drugs.

Now by selling marijuana here with the same restrictions as alcohol, then the source of money coming from America won't be transferred down to Mexico. Rather people would find it easier (perhaps cheaper if possible) to go to a local store and buy some. I'm sure it'll be taxed just as much as alcohol and that tax will help to pay for America's debt or other more important things like education. The people in Mexico would probably be upset and would most likely try to keep selling by downing the price of their drugs, and that again effects their source of income which would help to prevent them from getting the needs to fight this Drug War. Plus there would be less drug-selling people trying to cross the border with marijuana which would make the job easier for the border patrol . The infographics given by the owner has shown how much money has been used in trying to stop Marijuana and how much potential money could be actually gained by legalizing/taxing the drug. So why not?

All in all if it makes it easier for the residents in Mexico to walk around without getting randomly shot and America turns up a profit that could downsize their debt, then I'm all for legalizing weed.
Taikyoku
See, if you wanted to convince me to keep pot illegal, that would be the argument to use, because that's a pretty big negative. Weed has apparently gotten rather potent in the past couple decades, which let me say is excellent because it means more effects for pretty much the same amount of money. It really is a catch-22, since legalized weed would probably turn to utter bland repetitive s**t, but keeping it illegal is, of course, awful.

It's a real shame. Perhaps I've been too gung-ho about legalization. It's just such a tragedy that such a beautiful thing is illegal, but if it DOES become legal, it'll lose some of the beauty of potency, and I'm a believer in high THC potency. I'm also a big believer in the power of good strains and healthy competition between growers.


Shitty mass produced weed already exists. There would be nothing stopping the same people growing the highly potent s**t if weed became legal. In fact, there would be way less s**t stopping them, much more highly potent weed, even more potent weed, and way more of it at lower prices.
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It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?


Your judgement is affected, in your mind. It doesn't have to show obvious physical effects.
But weed dose. Have you ever even smoked it it?


I'm not a criminal, so no. I don't see how being a criminal would make you more entitled to make the laws. Besides, whatever dosage you get from arbitrary fat burning would not be the same as smoking it.
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I'm not a criminal, so no. I don't see how being a criminal would make you more entitled to make the laws. Besides, whatever dosage you get from arbitrary fat burning would not be the same as smoking it.


Just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong. Take for instance discrimination. It's Black History month. So think of the laws that prevented black people from voting. Back then they thought the law was right, but thinking of it now, we view the past law as a terrible thing.

If you want my honest opinion, there are far worst actions than just hitting a joint. Murder, theft, abuse, and other such worse criminal things.
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Alcohol, although dangerous, leaves the system in approximately 7 hours. Marijuana can have effects days afterwards, even weeks for heavy users. Marijuana stores in body fat and may release at any time relatively, making it unpredictable. With alcohol you know that you just drank and that you should not drive, with marijuana you should not drive for at least 2 days lest you risk getting high randomly while driving.

Don't be so naive. The THC stored in the fat cells cannot access the brain randomly. You can't randomly get high because you smoked a few days ago. That's just bullshit.


Because no one in this country has ever used fat stores which would release THC into the blood.
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I'm not entirely sure whether or not they'd have to take you down to the station to test you, but if your driving has been horrible, then I'd say that's probably a good idea whether or not you're stoned. The bottom line is that if you're endangering others, you're endangering others.

It's true that there's not (usually, anwyays) a label on marijuana saying "hey, you're getting X amount of THC in your system per hit," but like with alcohol, it's up to the user to keep alive some little voice in their head from the very first time they take a hit, a little voice that will at some point say "Okay, now it's time to stop, you're high/drunk (same thing, drunk = high on alcohol) enough." Different dosages can do different things to different people, but that's true of alcohol, as well as pretty much any intoxicant. And we probably would be able to put "numbers" and things like nutritional information on marijuana, but only if we legalize it. Otherwise, it depends on strain, user, tolerance, etc, like with alcohol.

If you're a medical patient, sure, go ahead and take cannabinoids in pill form. It IS sensible to actually know the dosage, if you're using it as a medicine. There's really no medical sense in asking a patient to smoke any substance which can be administered in a safer manner, because the act of smoking isn't very fun for your respiratory system. That said, your lungs aren't going to suddenly explode all over the place, or shrivel up and fall off the instant you smoke. The reason everyone wants to smoke it is because that's simply one of the main ways it's been taken, for thousands of years, and for some people, smoking itself can be pleasurable. It certainly makes the effects come on pretty much instantly, although the downside is that it can also mean a shorter duration. When it's ingested, it can take a while to actually feel the high, but it lasts longer. That's what I've heard, anyways, since my one experience with edibles turned out to be a dud, it was made with incorrectly-prepared pot butter, which led to pretty much no effects. On the other hand, on the basis of taste alone, it tasted pretty good! But I digress.


The thing it that it doesn't take a horrible driver to cause an accident. When the police pull over a lucid person, the person can just pay more attention, but if the person has impaired judgement more attention may not be possible. The only culture I know off the top of my head that uses it traditionally is native americans, and they have their own reservation laws anyway, though I admit I know nothing about them. Otherwise, when people smoked pot in the school restroom it smelled like someone was burning a backhoe, I couldn't imagine anyone enjoys it for the smell.

TBH, I almost want to make all this s**t legal just to stick it to the gangs (and by "this s**t" I mean all drugs). It reminds me of prohibition with the alcohol smuggling business making mafia lords. I think the government would have a much better fundraiser if they were in charge of the drugs, instead of just fining and imprisoning people for "victimless crimes."

Cannabis originated in Asia, not North America. I don't know where you heard that Native Americans traditionally smoke cannabis. They don't, although my guess is that they probably would have if it had been around. Native Americans would smoke tobacco ritually, though, which is an entirely different game from the tobacco you're familiar with. Uncured tobacco is very potent, and there's actually a definite risk of overdose. It's entheogenic, and is definitely not to be smoked habitually.

But that's beside the point. I'm unsure as to whether or not we're even opposing one another regarding driving. EDIT: Now I remember, you're apparently worried that weed smokers will randomly ******** up behind the wheel. Listen, I don't want people stoned behind the wheel any more than you do, but I'm afraid I have to see some hard numbers regarding weed and driving, I'm not convinced that latent THC in your system days after smoking could cause impaired judgement behind the wheel, especially not spontaneously, that would be a very un-weed-like phenomenon. I understand your argument is something along the lines of "You can feel fine, but your judgement is still ******** up," which is a valid argument a few hours after pretty much sobering up, but doesn't necessarily pan out to the scale of a couple days. After a couple days, I'm pretty sure your driving would be much more affected by your current circumstances.

I'm glad we agree on drug legality, at least!

As for smell, that depends on the product in question. I admit, I enjoy the smell of marijuana itself, not the smoke from burning it but the actual plant material. It usually smells pleasant and strongly minty. I personally don't like the smell/taste of joints or blunts, and I don't enjoy the experience of smoking them due to how harsh it can be, I much prefer to use bongs or ideally a vaporizer, since that actually has a somewhat pleasant taste to it and it's not harsh at all since it's not smoking, but rather vaporizing. The worst smell of all, however, is bong water. It smells like... well, gosh, I don't actually know WHAT it smells like, other than it's smoky, sharp, and absolutely disgusting. Seriously, it's awful. That said, marijuana alone does not smell unpleasant, and I know plenty of people who apparently enjoy the taste of smoking weed. I guess it's just personal preference.


Yeah, I guess I don't know how much scientists have actually studied marijuana. Everything I've seen on it is completely biased one way or the other with no actual numbers involved. Either it turns your brain to hamburger helper or it's better for you than cigarettes and alcohol. BTW, have you ever seen Requiem for a Dream (the movie)? I couldn't figure that movie out.
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It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?


Your judgement is affected, in your mind. It doesn't have to show obvious physical effects.


Until you understand how the body works, namely the blood-brain barrier and how nitrients are stoeed and released in fat cells, don't open your retarded mouth. Roght now there are kids in basic biology reading your posts going "wow i havenevemet somebo
so ******** stupid they couldnt grasp simple chapter 1 physiology."


Infact everything youve said flies in the face of science in such a way, im tempted to say youre acting stupid


I do know about the blood brain barrier, alcohol sure gets past it, sorry if bio doesn't cover how illegal drugs react to it. How do you explain marijuana high to begin with if it never gets past the blood brain barrier?
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I'm not a criminal, so no. I don't see how being a criminal would make you more entitled to make the laws. Besides, whatever dosage you get from arbitrary fat burning would not be the same as smoking it.


Just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong. Take for instance discrimination. It's Black History month. So think of the laws that prevented black people from voting. Back then they thought the law was right, but thinking of it now, we view the past law as a terrible thing.

If you want my honest opinion, there are far worst actions than just hitting a joint. Murder, theft, abuse, and other such worse criminal things.


I know, but I don't see any need to break this law specifically just because I think it's stupid. I agree, we're wasting prison space on "victim-less crimes" when we could just stick it to the gangs and make a better government fundraiser out of controlling it rather than imprisoning people. I know there's worse, but even if it were legal I wouldn't want to use it, personal preference.
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I'm not a criminal, so no. I don't see how being a criminal would make you more entitled to make the laws. Besides, whatever dosage you get from arbitrary fat burning would not be the same as smoking it.


Just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong. Take for instance discrimination. It's Black History month. So think of the laws that prevented black people from voting. Back then they thought the law was right, but thinking of it now, we view the past law as a terrible thing.

If you want my honest opinion, there are far worst actions than just hitting a joint. Murder, theft, abuse, and other such worse criminal things.


I know, but I don't see any need to break this law specifically just because I think it's stupid. I agree, we're wasting prison space on "victim-less crimes" when we could just stick it to the gangs and make a better government fundraiser out of controlling it rather than imprisoning people. I know there's worse, but even if it were legal I wouldn't want to use it, personal preference.


Well that's fine. I understand your choice because I don't smoke it either. Just like you I think it would be best for the law to be abolished and for the government to take advantage of the situation so as to use the profit/taxes on it to pay for the debt.

Yes, but some people do break the laws to prove a point. Again with Black History, there are several groups that broke laws to show a point and to perhaps influence others. There was a black woman in a bus that refused to give up her seat to a white man at the front of the bus, and she was arrested. As a response the community started to protest taking the bus and rose up signs and tried to convince others in not taking the bus as well. They stood up for it, and it was publicly seen. Though I'm not saying we should break the law by smoking, I'm saying we need to do more than just sitting back and stating how stupid the law is.

If the US people for legalizing weed somehow organized itself to the magnitude of Occupy Wall Street where people would be holding up signs in peaceful protest, not only would people take notice but then they would also listen. Since the organization would be promoting a solution to marijuana (unlike Occupy that doesn't have a clear solution) then the government might actually consider it. The Presidential candidates aren't going for legal marijuana. (The only one I know of is Gary Johnson who is running for the Libertarian party) The politicians are either against it or they take a back seat and just let it settle itself. So if something huge were to happen, I'm sure more candidates would be able to see what the public wants and maybe take initiative.
shoeless joe
Taikyoku
See, if you wanted to convince me to keep pot illegal, that would be the argument to use, because that's a pretty big negative. Weed has apparently gotten rather potent in the past couple decades, which let me say is excellent because it means more effects for pretty much the same amount of money. It really is a catch-22, since legalized weed would probably turn to utter bland repetitive s**t, but keeping it illegal is, of course, awful.

It's a real shame. Perhaps I've been too gung-ho about legalization. It's just such a tragedy that such a beautiful thing is illegal, but if it DOES become legal, it'll lose some of the beauty of potency, and I'm a believer in high THC potency. I'm also a big believer in the power of good strains and healthy competition between growers.


Shitty mass produced weed already exists. There would be nothing stopping the same people growing the highly potent s**t if weed became legal. In fact, there would be way less s**t stopping them, much more highly potent weed, even more potent weed, and way more of it at lower prices.

Ehh, one way or another, it needs to be legalized. Thinking on it, I haven't been too gung-ho about legalization, it simply needs to be legal, there's no way around it. Shitty weed or not.

Quote:
Marijuana never kicks down your door in the middle of the night. Marijuana never locks up sick and dying people, does not suppress medical research, does not peek in bedroom windows. Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.
~P.J. O'Rourke
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I'm not a criminal, so no. I don't see how being a criminal would make you more entitled to make the laws. Besides, whatever dosage you get from arbitrary fat burning would not be the same as smoking it.


Just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong. Take for instance discrimination. It's Black History month. So think of the laws that prevented black people from voting. Back then they thought the law was right, but thinking of it now, we view the past law as a terrible thing.

If you want my honest opinion, there are far worst actions than just hitting a joint. Murder, theft, abuse, and other such worse criminal things.


I know, but I don't see any need to break this law specifically just because I think it's stupid. I agree, we're wasting prison space on "victim-less crimes" when we could just stick it to the gangs and make a better government fundraiser out of controlling it rather than imprisoning people. I know there's worse, but even if it were legal I wouldn't want to use it, personal preference.


Well that's fine. I understand your choice because I don't smoke it either. Just like you I think it would be best for the law to be abolished and for the government to take advantage of the situation so as to use the profit/taxes on it to pay for the debt.

Yes, but some people do break the laws to prove a point. Again with Black History, there are several groups that broke laws to show a point and to perhaps influence others. There was a black woman in a bus that refused to give up her seat to a white man at the front of the bus, and she was arrested. As a response the community started to protest taking the bus and rose up signs and tried to convince others in not taking the bus as well. They stood up for it, and it was publicly seen. Though I'm not saying we should break the law by smoking, I'm saying we need to do more than just sitting back and stating how stupid the law is.

If the US people for legalizing weed somehow organized itself to the magnitude of Occupy Wall Street where people would be holding up signs in peaceful protest, not only would people take notice but then they would also listen. Since the organization would be promoting a solution to marijuana (unlike Occupy that doesn't have a clear solution) then the government might actually consider it. The Presidential candidates aren't going for legal marijuana. (The only one I know of is Gary Johnson who is running for the Libertarian party) The politicians are either against it or they take a back seat and just let it settle itself. So if something huge were to happen, I'm sure more candidates would be able to see what the public wants and maybe take initiative.


How many scientific studies have been done on it anyway? At least some of my concern is that it affects the brain in ways that we don't understand yet. This is the same with other drugs such as anti-depressants, but those require a prescription. What do you think about the pill form instead of smoking it?

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