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theothermanoverthere
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Mannequin Harpsichord
Alcohol, although dangerous, leaves the system in approximately 7 hours. Marijuana can have effects days afterwards, even weeks for heavy users. Marijuana stores in body fat and may release at any time relatively, making it unpredictable. With alcohol you know that you just drank and that you should not drive, with marijuana you should not drive for at least 2 days lest you risk getting high randomly while driving.
Hahah never had a random high when I smoked.


It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
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theothermanoverthere
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theothermanoverthere
Mannequin Harpsichord
Alcohol, although dangerous, leaves the system in approximately 7 hours. Marijuana can have effects days afterwards, even weeks for heavy users. Marijuana stores in body fat and may release at any time relatively, making it unpredictable. With alcohol you know that you just drank and that you should not drive, with marijuana you should not drive for at least 2 days lest you risk getting high randomly while driving.
Hahah never had a random high when I smoked.


It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?
Mannequin Harpsichord's avatar

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theothermanoverthere
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Mannequin Harpsichord
Alcohol, although dangerous, leaves the system in approximately 7 hours. Marijuana can have effects days afterwards, even weeks for heavy users. Marijuana stores in body fat and may release at any time relatively, making it unpredictable. With alcohol you know that you just drank and that you should not drive, with marijuana you should not drive for at least 2 days lest you risk getting high randomly while driving.
Hahah never had a random high when I smoked.


It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?


Your judgement is affected, in your mind. It doesn't have to show obvious physical effects.
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theothermanoverthere
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theothermanoverthere
Mannequin Harpsichord


It doesn't have to be noticeable. The same effect of taking a shot of rum and going out driving. It just takes a minor error in judgement to cause a major accident.
You got anything to back that up.


That it's the same effect or that it only takes a minor miscalculation to embed your teeth into the steering wheel? For the first I have no proof that it's exactly the same as a shot of rum, but impaired judgement is impaired judgement, it doesn't have to be anything else. You could sound fine, walk fine, feel fine, but still be affected.
How can you not be affected anyway but be affected by something at the same time?


Your judgement is affected, in your mind. It doesn't have to show obvious physical effects.
But weed dose. Have you ever even smoked it it?
XcoldhandsX's avatar

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This idea branched off in my other thread, Legalizing Prostitution. I hear about this debate at my school a lot, like the kids know what the hell their talking about, but some of their arguements make a lot of sense sometimes.
I did some research on it earlier, and I did some research on it, I found some infographics that made the idea of criminalizing it look insane, and here are some links:
- Infographic A
- Infographic B (Text a bit small, but headers are legible)
- Infographic C

Then I read (forgot the source) that little research has been done to prove that it promotes cancers and makes your brain liquid poop.

After doing all this research about it, why does America work towards jailing the users for it? and why is it only legal in some states in the U.S. only for medical use? Why can't it be recreational like alcohol and cigarettes? Of course there would be some regulations, like illegal to traffic it, and you can only buy it at dispensaries, or only allowed to own 2 or 3 plants for personal use..


Edit -
- Infographic D

Welcome to the madness that is the U.S. drug war. (And now the World's drug war seeing as how the U.S. convinced the U.N. to promote an anti-drug policy that pushed a social morality movement around the world.)
Go watch the documentary The Union: The Business Behind Getting High
It's posted on youtube (in one video long video, not the whole part 1 part 2 part 3 debacle).
HANDS DOWN most informative drug war documentary I've ever seen. And I've seen A LOT.

Basically, marijuana is illegal because in the early 20th century someone invented the threshing machine that easily separated the fibers on hemp (which you can't get high from) from the stalks. This brought hemp production back into business at an even higher rate (previously, slave labor was the only reasonable means of harvesting it and making a profit). From dynamite, to cellophane, to paper, to rope (hemp was re-legalized during WW2 so they could create rope for the ships, see the video Hemp for Victory) and on and on and on the advantages hemp had were practically endless.
The first market hemp began to dominate was that of paper manufacturing. Hemp paper lasted longer and was more durable than timber based paper and it also was much more cost effective and encouraged less deforestation.
Now, William Randolph Hurst, one of the richest American businessmen at the time realized that if he didn't do something to stop hemp FOR GOOD he would loose a huge amount of money he had invested in the timber industry.
Being a man of a higher education, wealth, and one who owned an empire of newspapers and magazines, he simply fed off of American racial prejudice. He wrote up a phony article saying that this new drug called marijuana (the only reason it was given that name was because it better related it to the Hispanic minority) that made men and women violently insane, was more addictive the heroine, and when smoked would (not exaggerating what they said here) cause african-americans to play devil's music (jazz) and use it to seduce innocent white women into having sex with them.
Also, phony stories began popping up in newspapers about how Mexican immigrants would smoke marijuana, becoming violent, and rape innocent white women. (The whole "innocent white women being raped by vile non-white minorities" story was really popular.)
Also you have to consider that at this time in American culture,
1) Virtually nobody knew anything about cannabis (marijuana) to begin with.
2) There was no internet, no real documented history that was widely available, and certainly no scientific tests done to confirm or deny the effects of this drug.
3) William Randolph Hurst owned a media empire. He could basically manipulate the news however he wanted if noone knew about cannabis to being with.
4) The majority of middle to upper class white families discriminated against minorities and would believe any spiteful story they were told about them.

Oh and FUN NEWS, Popular Mechanics magazine almost published this article titled "NEW BILLION-DOLLAR CROP" about hemp. But by the time it would've been out, cannabis was illegal (1937) and the article could never be published.
Even today, the United States is the ONLY first world country that buys, sells, and uses hemp but does NOT grow it.
Did I just see someone arguing that marijuana should be illegal because it impairs driving ability for days after you use it?
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source
Quote:
The First U.S. Marijuana Arrest (Ever)

The federal Marihuana Tax Stamp Act was passed on October 2, 1937, seventy years ago today. It was the first law criminalizing marijuana sale and possession in the United States.

That very day, the FBI arrested Samuel Caldwell for selling two joints to Moses Baca who was also arrested. Caldwell was sentenced to four years in Leavenworth; Baca 18 months. Neither was paroled. The maximum was five years.

Technically speaking Caldwell’s crime was not buying the $1 stamp that was a tax levied on the purchase and sale of marijuana. Apparently it was no legal defense that the stamp wasn’t available; after all, he was arrested the day the law was enacted – the stamps didn’t exist yet.

From the NORML website, the judge in his case sounds like he may have had a part in ghost writing Reefer Madness:

Caldwell's wares, two marijuana cigarettes, deeply offended Judge Foster Symes, who said:

"I consider marijuana the worst of all narcotics, far worse than the use of morphine or cocaine. Under its influence men become beasts. Marijuana destroys life itself. I have no sympathy with those who sell this weed. The government is going to enforce this new law to the letter."

Some thirty two years later, the United States Supreme Court struck down the Tax Stamp Act as unconstitutionally violating a defendant’s Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Leary v. United States, 395 U.S. 6 (1969). Yes, that Timothy Leary. But I digress.

Of course, the case didn’t do Mr. Caldwell any good, because he had already served his four years, day for day, and in fact got no satisfaction at all since he died about a year after being released.

And all 50 states as well as the Federal Government have simply moved on to directly criminalizing marijuana sale and possession. And the prison industry thanks them for it.

And yes, incase you were unaware, the U.S. has a booming private prison industry where these business men profit off of people going to jail. And since America's jails are SO overcrowded with minor drug offenders (primarily marijuana) they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't fight legalization tooth-and-nail.
America has approximately 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners.
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Mannequin Harpsichord
Alcohol, although dangerous, leaves the system in approximately 7 hours. Marijuana can have effects days afterwards, even weeks for heavy users. Marijuana stores in body fat and may release at any time relatively, making it unpredictable. With alcohol you know that you just drank and that you should not drive, with marijuana you should not drive for at least 2 days lest you risk getting high randomly while driving.

Don't be so naive. The THC stored in the fat cells cannot access the brain randomly. You can't randomly get high because you smoked a few days ago. That's just bullshit.
These days there are some breads of marijuana that are harshly strong. Enough so for a virgin to go into toxic shock- but all that really dose is make you sweat out the "toxin"
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I wouldn't say never though. Some people in my area have been transported to the emergency room for psychosis on the stuff - guess it depends on your definition of OD. You can really never be sure of all the products they use on it (notably pesticide).The victims were young and went through hell. Just goes to show you should not buy from big lucrative organizations such as the Hell's Angels. They'll use anything on the plants as long as they get the quantity needed for $ ;>.>


Well laced pot is always a problem. But if you're actually smoking weed, it won't kill you.
As opposed to alcohol, where the amount needed to get a buzz is roughly 1/8 a lethal dose.


Only few people have the predisposition to become alcoholics; most people just fall asleep after they've had enough. It's a defense mechanism; the body just considers it as poisoning. If I wasn't so tired I'd find a link for you - actually researched the topic during my second college semester. The percentage of people who actually don't have that self-defense mechanism is below 10%... But I'm past my fourth glass of wine so screw effort just chillin' rofl.

Oh it's low - most times people die from alcohol poisoning is when they drink quickly enough that their body doesn't have time to react, or when they pass out and vomit in their sleep, or when they do something like try to drive.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana and (although this is a very odd datum to have) there were roughly 36x as many people that died from alcohol poisoning as from laced pot in the UK. Im assuming it's pretty similar elsewhere. But which one is illegal again?

This IS a bit of an issue that I worry about. If marijuana becomes legal, rest assured you'll see large-scale marijuana farms which you know will go for quantity over quality, I mean I'm sure large-scale marijuana-growing operations clearly already do this if laced pot is a problem. Somehow I keep hearing about the poor quality of pot in the UK, the last time I heard anything about weed and the UK, I learned what grit weed was, now THAT is a scary thought.

Weed can be amazing, though. I'm not going to lie or pussyfoot around the issue, marijuana can be very, very fun. I'm not going to try to justify my enjoyment of weed. I don't drink, I don't smoke tobacco, I don't even drink coffee! I'm not shooting up heroin or running a meth lab. I'm not running over old ladies, robbing banks, or throwing myself out of windows. You know what I'm doing when I smoke weed? I'm socializing, making friends, appreciating the arts, meditating, reflecting on life, making art, etc etc. Even a minor high allows a level of appreciation and gratitude for the world around me. It isn't quite as profound as psilocybin or LSD or any of the more prestigious entheogens, but it is certainly a boundary-dissolving substance with the potential for encouraging empathy, cohesion, cooperation, acceptance, pleasure, relaxation, understanding, and yes, I'll say it, fun. No, it isn't a cure-all, but I'm not at all ashamed of being an advocate of marijuana, of its acceptance by others as something which ought to be legal, and its use by those who are mature enough to be able to have control over their habits, instead of letting their habits control them.

Now, I don't have to get high in order to appreciate and love those around me. It would be a mistake to say that marijuana alone has made me a good person, because smoking weed does not automatically suddenly make you get your act together (although the higher order of entheogens can, if used properly). It can be abused, just like anything else. I wouldn't smoke it while driving, or operating machinery, or at work or school or while doing homework (well, it depends on what the assignment is, but unless you have the discipline to use it the right way, you're probably just wasting weed) or things which, you know, actually require sobriety.

That said, if we have the discipline to allow alcohol, then it's perfectly silly to make weed illegal. If anything, alcohol is a much worse drug with the strong potential for abuse and damage, including death. Thousands of people die from alcohol every year, and the places it takes people aren't places I really want to go at all. I'm not saying we should bring back prohibition, in fact prohibition is a terrible idea, but goodness, when I look at the gap between alcohol's negative effects and marijuana's negative effects, it's staggering. Part of me almost thinks of the difference between them like the difference between a moody loudmouth falling over, and a soft-spoken hippie doing tai chi.

Cheap shitty light beer is mass produced. Higher quality alcohol is sold in less quantity for higher prices.
The same will happen with pot.
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After doing all this research about it, why does America work towards jailing the users for it? and why is it only legal in some states in the U.S. only for medical use? Why can't it be recreational like aall parts of thatlcohol and cigarettes? Of course there would be some regulations, like illegal to traffic it, and you can only buy it at dispensaries, or only allowed to own 2 or 3 plants for personal use..
Here are some of the basic sides to this problem.

To sum up a few of the "why nots"
1.) Lack of consistent scientific proof to back up the idea that marijuana is the best solution
2.) Smoking is a bad idea and shouldn't be encouraged
3.) Currently,marijuana is not regulated and this creates dangers.
4.) It is a stepping stone to worse drugs.
all parts of that 4 part question are bullshit


A) solution for what?
B) ALL THE PRESSURE IN SOCIETYY IS ON NOT TO SMOKE. Furthermore. Cannabis can be eaten, vaporized and drank.
C) which is why it should belgal and regulated.
D) The gateway drug theory is so antiquated and proven wrong for so many years (1973) that only idiots try to use it now.

For christ's sake I was about to tear my hear out until Kapland came to save the day
Marijuana is a gateway drug? This insanity has to be stopped.
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These days there are some breads of marijuana that are harshly strong. Enough so for a virgin to go into toxic shock- but all that really dose is make you sweat out the "toxin"

Breads? You mean strains?
And no you can't go into "toxic shock" from THC. It would take the consumption of over 800,000 joints in 20 minutes to OD from cannabis consumption, and even then you'd die from the carbon monoxide poisoning.

And just to prove again that I'm right, you can't "sweat out the toxin". First of all, THC is not a toxin. You're brain produces cannabanoids naturally, they're just from a plant this time and not your brain's cannabanoid receptors.

Secondly, THC is fat soluable, that's why it can show up a few days after having been ingested (or even weeks if one smokes regularly and heavily). Again, it is not water soluable it is FAT soluable.

You could exercise and burn fat, but the sweat would have nothing to do with it.

Chemical drugs on the other hand do only stay in your system a few days because they will come out in sweat, urine, etc.
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These days there are some breads of marijuana that are harshly strong. Enough so for a virgin to go into toxic shock- but all that really dose is make you sweat out the "toxin"

Breads? You mean strains?
And no you can't go into "toxic shock" from THC. It would take the consumption of over 800,000 joints in 20 minutes to OD from cannabis consumption, and even then you'd die from the carbon monoxide poisoning.

And just to prove again that I'm right, you can't "sweat out the toxin". First of all, THC is not a toxin. You're brain produces cannabanoids naturally, they're just from a plant this time and not your brain's cannabanoid receptors.

Secondly, THC is fat soluable, that's why it can show up a few days after having been ingested (or even weeks if one smokes regularly and heavily). Again, it is not water soluable it is FAT soluable.

You could exercise and burn fat, but the sweat would have nothing to do with it.

Chemical drugs on the other hand do only stay in your system a few days because they will come out in sweat, urine, etc.


-shrug- maybe it was a bad trip that my friend told me about. But chances are his body just freaked out from having a ton of something its not use to having shoved in at once.
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I'm not entirely sure whether or not they'd have to take you down to the station to test you, but if your driving has been horrible, then I'd say that's probably a good idea whether or not you're stoned. The bottom line is that if you're endangering others, you're endangering others.

It's true that there's not (usually, anwyays) a label on marijuana saying "hey, you're getting X amount of THC in your system per hit," but like with alcohol, it's up to the user to keep alive some little voice in their head from the very first time they take a hit, a little voice that will at some point say "Okay, now it's time to stop, you're high/drunk (same thing, drunk = high on alcohol) enough." Different dosages can do different things to different people, but that's true of alcohol, as well as pretty much any intoxicant. And we probably would be able to put "numbers" and things like nutritional information on marijuana, but only if we legalize it. Otherwise, it depends on strain, user, tolerance, etc, like with alcohol.

If you're a medical patient, sure, go ahead and take cannabinoids in pill form. It IS sensible to actually know the dosage, if you're using it as a medicine. There's really no medical sense in asking a patient to smoke any substance which can be administered in a safer manner, because the act of smoking isn't very fun for your respiratory system. That said, your lungs aren't going to suddenly explode all over the place, or shrivel up and fall off the instant you smoke. The reason everyone wants to smoke it is because that's simply one of the main ways it's been taken, for thousands of years, and for some people, smoking itself can be pleasurable. It certainly makes the effects come on pretty much instantly, although the downside is that it can also mean a shorter duration. When it's ingested, it can take a while to actually feel the high, but it lasts longer. That's what I've heard, anyways, since my one experience with edibles turned out to be a dud, it was made with incorrectly-prepared pot butter, which led to pretty much no effects. On the other hand, on the basis of taste alone, it tasted pretty good! But I digress.


The thing it that it doesn't take a horrible driver to cause an accident. When the police pull over a lucid person, the person can just pay more attention, but if the person has impaired judgement more attention may not be possible. The only culture I know off the top of my head that uses it traditionally is native americans, and they have their own reservation laws anyway, though I admit I know nothing about them. Otherwise, when people smoked pot in the school restroom it smelled like someone was burning a backhoe, I couldn't imagine anyone enjoys it for the smell.

TBH, I almost want to make all this s**t legal just to stick it to the gangs (and by "this s**t" I mean all drugs). It reminds me of prohibition with the alcohol smuggling business making mafia lords. I think the government would have a much better fundraiser if they were in charge of the drugs, instead of just fining and imprisoning people for "victimless crimes."

Cannabis originated in Asia, not North America. I don't know where you heard that Native Americans traditionally smoke cannabis. They don't, although my guess is that they probably would have if it had been around. Native Americans would smoke tobacco ritually, though, which is an entirely different game from the tobacco you're familiar with. Uncured tobacco is very potent, and there's actually a definite risk of overdose. It's entheogenic, and is definitely not to be smoked habitually.

But that's beside the point. I'm unsure as to whether or not we're even opposing one another regarding driving. EDIT: Now I remember, you're apparently worried that weed smokers will randomly ******** up behind the wheel. Listen, I don't want people stoned behind the wheel any more than you do, but I'm afraid I have to see some hard numbers regarding weed and driving, I'm not convinced that latent THC in your system days after smoking could cause impaired judgement behind the wheel, especially not spontaneously, that would be a very un-weed-like phenomenon. I understand your argument is something along the lines of "You can feel fine, but your judgement is still ******** up," which is a valid argument a few hours after pretty much sobering up, but doesn't necessarily pan out to the scale of a couple days. After a couple days, I'm pretty sure your driving would be much more affected by your current circumstances.

I'm glad we agree on drug legality, at least!

As for smell, that depends on the product in question. I admit, I enjoy the smell of marijuana itself, not the smoke from burning it but the actual plant material. It usually smells pleasant and strongly minty. I personally don't like the smell/taste of joints or blunts, and I don't enjoy the experience of smoking them due to how harsh it can be, I much prefer to use bongs or ideally a vaporizer, since that actually has a somewhat pleasant taste to it and it's not harsh at all since it's not smoking, but rather vaporizing. The worst smell of all, however, is bong water. It smells like... well, gosh, I don't actually know WHAT it smells like, other than it's smoky, sharp, and absolutely disgusting. Seriously, it's awful. That said, marijuana alone does not smell unpleasant, and I know plenty of people who apparently enjoy the taste of smoking weed. I guess it's just personal preference.
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I wouldn't say never though. Some people in my area have been transported to the emergency room for psychosis on the stuff - guess it depends on your definition of OD. You can really never be sure of all the products they use on it (notably pesticide).The victims were young and went through hell. Just goes to show you should not buy from big lucrative organizations such as the Hell's Angels. They'll use anything on the plants as long as they get the quantity needed for $ ;>.>


Well laced pot is always a problem. But if you're actually smoking weed, it won't kill you.
As opposed to alcohol, where the amount needed to get a buzz is roughly 1/8 a lethal dose.


Only few people have the predisposition to become alcoholics; most people just fall asleep after they've had enough. It's a defense mechanism; the body just considers it as poisoning. If I wasn't so tired I'd find a link for you - actually researched the topic during my second college semester. The percentage of people who actually don't have that self-defense mechanism is below 10%... But I'm past my fourth glass of wine so screw effort just chillin' rofl.

Oh it's low - most times people die from alcohol poisoning is when they drink quickly enough that their body doesn't have time to react, or when they pass out and vomit in their sleep, or when they do something like try to drive.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana and (although this is a very odd datum to have) there were roughly 36x as many people that died from alcohol poisoning as from laced pot in the UK. Im assuming it's pretty similar elsewhere. But which one is illegal again?

This IS a bit of an issue that I worry about. If marijuana becomes legal, rest assured you'll see large-scale marijuana farms which you know will go for quantity over quality, I mean I'm sure large-scale marijuana-growing operations clearly already do this if laced pot is a problem. Somehow I keep hearing about the poor quality of pot in the UK, the last time I heard anything about weed and the UK, I learned what grit weed was, now THAT is a scary thought.

Weed can be amazing, though. I'm not going to lie or pussyfoot around the issue, marijuana can be very, very fun. I'm not going to try to justify my enjoyment of weed. I don't drink, I don't smoke tobacco, I don't even drink coffee! I'm not shooting up heroin or running a meth lab. I'm not running over old ladies, robbing banks, or throwing myself out of windows. You know what I'm doing when I smoke weed? I'm socializing, making friends, appreciating the arts, meditating, reflecting on life, making art, etc etc. Even a minor high allows a level of appreciation and gratitude for the world around me. It isn't quite as profound as psilocybin or LSD or any of the more prestigious entheogens, but it is certainly a boundary-dissolving substance with the potential for encouraging empathy, cohesion, cooperation, acceptance, pleasure, relaxation, understanding, and yes, I'll say it, fun. No, it isn't a cure-all, but I'm not at all ashamed of being an advocate of marijuana, of its acceptance by others as something which ought to be legal, and its use by those who are mature enough to be able to have control over their habits, instead of letting their habits control them.

Now, I don't have to get high in order to appreciate and love those around me. It would be a mistake to say that marijuana alone has made me a good person, because smoking weed does not automatically suddenly make you get your act together (although the higher order of entheogens can, if used properly). It can be abused, just like anything else. I wouldn't smoke it while driving, or operating machinery, or at work or school or while doing homework (well, it depends on what the assignment is, but unless you have the discipline to use it the right way, you're probably just wasting weed) or things which, you know, actually require sobriety.

That said, if we have the discipline to allow alcohol, then it's perfectly silly to make weed illegal. If anything, alcohol is a much worse drug with the strong potential for abuse and damage, including death. Thousands of people die from alcohol every year, and the places it takes people aren't places I really want to go at all. I'm not saying we should bring back prohibition, in fact prohibition is a terrible idea, but goodness, when I look at the gap between alcohol's negative effects and marijuana's negative effects, it's staggering. Part of me almost thinks of the difference between them like the difference between a moody loudmouth falling over, and a soft-spoken hippie doing tai chi.

Cheap shitty light beer is mass produced. Higher quality alcohol is sold in less quantity for higher prices.
The same will happen with pot.

See, if you wanted to convince me to keep pot illegal, that would be the argument to use, because that's a pretty big negative. Weed has apparently gotten rather potent in the past couple decades, which let me say is excellent because it means more effects for pretty much the same amount of money. It really is a catch-22, since legalized weed would probably turn to utter bland repetitive s**t, but keeping it illegal is, of course, awful.

It's a real shame. Perhaps I've been too gung-ho about legalization. It's just such a tragedy that such a beautiful thing is illegal, but if it DOES become legal, it'll lose some of the beauty of potency, and I'm a believer in high THC potency. I'm also a big believer in the power of good strains and healthy competition between growers.

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