Manspreading: Yay or Nay?

Manspreading?

Yay	27.8%	[ 15 ]
Nay	72.2%	[ 39 ]
Total Votes:			[ 54 ]

[Trashy Cinnabon]

The20

I'm not sure if you're just being silly now or if this is still somewhat serious. I think i'll go with silly.

I wonder if that was the correct answer? razz

Setting that aside, wearing heels is apparently not a discomfort to everyone. Some people don't notice any pain or discomfort. Honestly, it's not that bad having worn them myself, it's more the annoyance of trying to keep balance(especially with someone like myself who has horrible balance to begin with)

We do what we do, be it wearing heels to look good, or dumping ice water on our heads to promote awareness.

[SparkyKid3000]

Tee the Wicked in Drag

SparkyKid3000

Tee the Wicked in Drag

Walking in heels is no easy feat, especially on a dirty bus. Of course, this is why the smart thing to do is to wear a spare set of shoes, and change into the heels after you arrive at your destination.

The smart thing would be not to wear the shoes of the devil. Seriously, high heels are ******** evil. I don't see how people wear them. It baffles the mind. cheese_whine

I only wear them when I'm in drag, so not too terribly often. And the entire point in wearing them is because they look fashionable. Of course, that itself is entirely subjective.

To each his/her own. If it works for you then you work them heels. xd

[Henrika]

The20

Riviera de la Mancha

People in support of the campaign come from all angles; riders who see it as sexual harassment

emotion_facepalm
I don't know what else to say about this ...

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Griffin Kaige

Riviera de la Mancha

Yoshpet

Riviera de la Mancha

Yoshpet

Might wanna read up on benevolent sexism so you look like less of a tool. What am I supposed to provide? Proof that discriminating on sex is sexism? Lol okay.

I don't have to be a woman to identify sexism. Ignoring my viewpoint because I am a man is also sexist. You're on a roll! lol

Too bad your ship for 'looking like a tool' is off on the horizon. It set sail when you started to use ad hominems, and then it really took off when you in effect asked me to make your arguments for you by asking me to look into a subject. And now its long gone when you feign outrage by being asked to support a claim you made.

I have never ignored your point. Each comment you made has been addressed. What we have now if a second post from you where nothing substantive has been said.

Waving something away is not addressing it. I'm sorry you think the idea that women are less capable of standing than men is not only based in fact, but is a polite assessment worth defending.

It's okay if you don't want to engage in a real way. Being critical of the self is one of the hardest things to do, even more so when your flaws are rationalized as the work of a gentleman.

Point for me where I have ever "waved away" your comments. I'll wait.

I have also never claimed that women are "less capable of standing". What I have said is that, of the two sexes, the assumption is that men are more able to endure being uncomfortable by standing for long periods of time. And when one of the sexes is to be uncomfortable, it should properly fall to men to put their comfort second to women and offer their seat to them in a packed subway car in NY. The same should be done for the elderly, those who are injured or disabled, and pregnant women or anyone with a child. If she refuses, then you are free to keep sitting.

How in gods name can you not see that saying 'it should fall on men to be uncomfortable instead of women' is not sexist? You are basing your entire stance on the fact that they are female. That is sexism. If you single out one gender, based solely ON their gender, it is sexist.

I have explained it several times already, but again, typically sexism, like any ism, assumes some pejorative or negative animus for the treatment. There is nothing pejorative in being able to stand for a lesser length of time because there is nothing to be proud of in being able to stand for a long time. Well, at least if you have a shred of self-worth there isn't. Its just a thing.

If you however mean that its sexist because its differential treatment based on sex, then that's accurate, yes. I see little issue with that though, as the act of discriminating is not itself terrible. We don't let people who have not passed medical school and become licensed practice medicine, which is a discrimination against those without such licenses. We have different competition standards for women in every sport, which is also sexist. Its equally sexist to not allow a man to work as a female stripper in an all-woman strip review. Its also quite racist to refer to black people as "black people", because its different treatment based on their race.

Therefore, what needs to be asked is the animus for the behavior. Where there is no such animus, the behavior is not racist, sexist, ageist, etc.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SparkyKid3000

So according to Riviera, I should give my seat up to a woman who is perfectly capable of standing? Interesting. I fail to see why being a woman somehow makes you less capable of standing than a man. If anyone is willing to provide some evidence for that (because none is present in this thread) please do.

I'll give up my seat to men and women and have done so before. If you're handicapped, pregnant, etc. I have no problem with helping you out. Sometimes I do it because I feel like standing. Hell, I've given my seat to other folks simply because I thought they looked tired and/or had a rough day. However, I don't think giving up your seat to a woman simply because she's a women should be viewed as something admirable.

Incorrect; you should offer it to her. If she takes it, then you give it to her.

And manners are not something to be admired, I agree. Manners are simply what is done, its the standard, and no one should be praised for meeting the standard. However, the new standard in this area is "no standard", so its become something admirable. I think its quite sad that this is the state of affairs.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

MistressxLithia

SparkyKid3000

So according to Riviera, I should give my seat up to a woman who is perfectly capable of standing? Interesting. I fail to see why being a woman somehow makes you less capable of standing than a man. If anyone is willing to provide some evidence for that (because none is present in this thread) please do.

I'll give up my seat to men and women and have done so before. If you're handicapped, pregnant, etc. I have no problem with helping you out. Sometimes I do it because I feel like standing. Hell, I've given my seat to other folks simply because I thought they looked tired and/or had a rough day. However, I don't think giving up your seat to a woman simply because she's a women should be viewed as something admirable.

********.

As a woman, I find his 'women aren't as able bodied as men to stand for a thirty minute commute' extremely sexist and offensive. He can try to wrap his sexist bullshit up in a pretty package and call it 'being a gentleman' but he's just lying to himself.

Again, my position is not that women aren't as "able bodied" as men. It is that men are more better equipped to deal with the discomfort of standing. This comes from physical differences in the sexes, among other factors. Other factors include that men are asked to be uncomfortable in other social situations more often than others.

Its your choice though to be offended, and I respect that.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Yoshpet

Riviera de la Mancha

Yoshpet

Riviera de la Mancha

Yoshpet

Waving something away is not addressing it. I'm sorry you think the idea that women are less capable of standing than men is not only based in fact, but is a polite assessment worth defending.

It's okay if you don't want to engage in a real way. Being critical of the self is one of the hardest things to do, even more so when your flaws are rationalized as the work of a gentleman.

Point for me where I have ever "waved away" your comments. I'll wait.

I have also never claimed that women are "less capable of standing". What I have said is that, of the two sexes, the assumption is that men are more able to endure being uncomfortable by standing for long periods of time. And when one of the sexes is to be uncomfortable, it should properly fall to men to put their comfort second to women and offer their seat to them in a packed subway car in NY. The same should be done for the elderly, those who are injured or disabled, and pregnant women or anyone with a child. If she refuses, then you are free to keep sitting.

Oh yes, split more hairs. You're just determined to bury yourself in this hole you're digging, aren't you? To assume men are more able to endure being uncomfortable from standing is to assume that women are less able. No two ways about it. That's just plain old fashioned sexist and no amount of wriggling is going to change such a notion into some kind of fact, much less anything pleasant.

It's totally different for the elderly, the pregnant and the disabled as they have obvious reasons why they cannot stand for long periods of time. This is not true of able-bodied women who are not pregnant. Yet you suggest that men should surrender their seats to them because men can endure the discomfort better. Really, I'd like to see you support his notion.

Substantiate the assumption that "men are more able to endure being uncomfortable".

So its "splitting hairs" to ask you to support a claim you made?

And so you don't think sexual dimorphism is an "obvious reason"?

Again, for probably the forth time now, I said that men should offer their seat to a woman.

You're really going to ask me to source when you have yet to do your work and substantiate the very thing I was disagreeing with? You have the audacity to call your reasons obvious while demanding sources from others? Get a grip. The burden's on you, and you don't get to shrug it onto me just because I disagree with your unsubstantiated tripe.

Please explain how sexual dimorphism justifies the assumption that women cannot endure standing as long. No, really, I'd love to hear it. You do remember that's what we're talking about, right - standing on mass transit? So please spare us any tangents about muscle mass, heavy lifting etc.

I don't see the need for you to "source" anything. I asked for you to support your position. Just give me a reasoned argument and I will be satisfied. All you have done is toss out ad-hominems when I disagreed with you and asked you to just give me a reasoned position which reasonably suggests your conclusions. That's it. I don't need to see scientific sources or anything.

...So muscle mass, which are comprised of muscle tissue, which is used for standing, are not relevant in a discussion about which group may be fairly assumed to be able to stand longer?

[The20]

Henrika

The20

Riviera de la Mancha

People in support of the campaign come from all angles; riders who see it as sexual harassment

emotion_facepalm
I don't know what else to say about this ...

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

That's not what i got from the opening post at all.

[Henrika]

The20

Henrika

The20

Riviera de la Mancha

People in support of the campaign come from all angles; riders who see it as sexual harassment

emotion_facepalm
I don't know what else to say about this ...

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

That's not what i got from the opening post at all.

Probably because that one sentence was cherry-picked, and you didn't bother to read the article, where the person clearly said she felt it was harassment when people "man-spreaded" against you on an empty subway or bus.


But I guess if you've never experienced that kind of harassment, its a lot easier to dismiss it and pretend it doesn't exist.

[The20]

Henrika

The20

Henrika

The20

Riviera de la Mancha

People in support of the campaign come from all angles; riders who see it as sexual harassment

emotion_facepalm
I don't know what else to say about this ...

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

That's not what i got from the opening post at all.

Probably because that one sentence was cherry-picked, and you didn't bother to read the article, where the person clearly said she felt it was harassment when people "man-spreaded" against you on an empty subway or bus.


But I guess if you've never experienced that kind of harassment, its a lot easier to dismiss it and pretend it doesn't exist.

This website tells me i need an account to proceed. I'm not going to create an account for a news website. So i'm afraid i can't read that article.

[Henrika]

The20

Henrika

The20

Henrika

The20

Riviera de la Mancha

People in support of the campaign come from all angles; riders who see it as sexual harassment

emotion_facepalm
I don't know what else to say about this ...

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

That's not what i got from the opening post at all.

Probably because that one sentence was cherry-picked, and you didn't bother to read the article, where the person clearly said she felt it was harassment when people "man-spreaded" against you on an empty subway or bus.


But I guess if you've never experienced that kind of harassment, its a lot easier to dismiss it and pretend it doesn't exist.

This website tells me i need an account to proceed. I'm not going to create an account for a news website. So i'm afraid i can't read that article.

Funny, I was able to read it without an account.

[The20]

Henrika

The20

Henrika

The20

Henrika

When the subway is empty, and you can sit ANYWHERE and spread out, why did you sit next to me and push up against me? And then lean into/over me to talk? And keep nudging me to make conversation? And then get pissed off and angry when I get up and walk away and follow me and shout at me for being a 'b***h'?

That's not what i got from the opening post at all.

Probably because that one sentence was cherry-picked, and you didn't bother to read the article, where the person clearly said she felt it was harassment when people "man-spreaded" against you on an empty subway or bus.


But I guess if you've never experienced that kind of harassment, its a lot easier to dismiss it and pretend it doesn't exist.

This website tells me i need an account to proceed. I'm not going to create an account for a news website. So i'm afraid i can't read that article.

Funny, I was able to read it without an account.

You live in the US i suppose?

[Tigress Dawn]

When you've ridden public transportation long enough, you learn how to shove their leg back in their own space.

Really though, it's not much different than ladies putting their purses on a seat they don't want someone sitting in next to them.

Just tell them to move their legs. This problem could be avoided if people asked men to move their legs they same way they ask women to move their purses/bags.