Life is not sacred, leave my womb alone!

[Fermionic]

Dizzy_Solace

Fermionic

Dizzy_Solace

Fermionic

One may say "If I had been considered for abortion, it would be my preference to not have been aborted. Hence, it would be polite to afford the same consideration for current foetuses".

If bacteria had a brain they would say the same. Your argument is pointless. Some people even would wish they were aborted lol as well. Not to mention it was 'destiny' to some peopel that they were born, or they believe in reincarnation, so of course it doesn't matter what happened before to them.

This is a defence, as was asked for. It is inherently contingent upon the attitudes both that one may not have wished to have been aborted, and consideration of a system in which affording the same opportunity to potential-others is basely appealing to the agent in question.
I don't propose the applicability of the two premises for any individual at all, for that should be blatantly obvious that it is not the case. I even drew attention to that with the opening qualifier.

So no, my argument is not pointless, you merely assume it to have relevance where it is not supposed to, and is not indicated or proposed to. A refrain from such assumptions would be a benefit for you, I suspect.

Except, your argument is on the premise some would want to not be aborted. But thats making a large amount of assumptions. As well it entirely neglects statistics. Not to mention an aborted baby does not know english or communication beyond its inherent qualities. As well some would want to be aborted, and opinions change based on circumstance. An opinion has no bearing on this ethically. Even if Hitler were to be aborted he would not want to be perhaps. So your argument is invalid. Wants do not cause outcomes alone, yes it is an argument, and I gave my counterargument.

I addressed that it is based on the premise that someone would want to not be aborted, in that I did not assert that it was for all possible agents. Maybe you should read again the statement in my first response to you.

A baby not knowing english or communication is irrelevant, communication with a baby wasn't used in my original case at all.

Hitler is irrelevant to the case, you've misunderstood what my argument was.

A counterargument is inherently related to an original argument. Nothing you've yet said is relevant to my argument, so I wholly contest you assignment of it as a "counter" argument.

To rephrase; I have asserted plainly that my original example was not an all-encompassing argument for why abortions shouldn't happen at all.
It is a phrasing of a statement of why a person may not wish to permit abortions. It was necessarily conditional on their attitudes both towards their own potential abortion, and towards the frame of mind of affording other potentials the same frame of reference. It was stated in a conditional, it is a conditional, your problems are attacking it as though it is an absolute; that is why everything you've said so far has been irrelevant.

So no, again, my argument is both internally consistent, and valid, for the conditions in which I formulated it originally.

[The20]

So your counter to "abortion is bad" is "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!"?
Really?

(I've been waiting forever to use that quote in a discussion. Not my best performance, though, i'll admit that.)

[Roih Uvet]

"Life is not sacred, but my v****a/womb is!"

[ChuckBreezy]

I like how you say "different angle" like their really was one.
All life is sacred, all of it. If you want to come up with some stupid excuse to belittle the fact that you are ripping a human body out of your womb because you were too ******** selfish to have protection around, or take the ******** morning after pill, so be it. Go do what your selfish needs require. Yet we that don't agree still have to pay taxes that aid you in this senselessness? Yeah go ahead and tell people how they are restricting you. I say go for it, have that s**t on your conscience, but pay for it your self, out of your own pocket, and leave your fellow tax payers the ******** out of your lack of morality.

[Liliahna]

Mistress Lithia

I am not a religious person yet I am against abortion. How could someone harm their child? Their own flesh and blood, innocent and helpless?
See for yourself, those who do go through an abortion mourn over their loss. Even if the child was unplanned or a product of rape.
abort73.com - Abortion stories from those who followed through

[low iq 111]

xMalaresian Queenx

low iq 111

Mistress Lithia

Fermionic

One may say "If I had been considered for abortion, it would be my preference to not have been aborted. Hence, it would be polite to afford the same consideration for current foetuses".

If my mother had considered it I wouldn't care because as a non-thinking, unfeeling, forming cell mass I would have had no knowledge of self to care. If she were to tell me she'd considered it I would have said 'Well, your life would have been different, no idea if that's a good or bad thing. I'm neither happy nor sad, because the choice was yours to make." *shrugs* But then I don't try to play with people's emotions either.

would you care, if someone just came up behind you and shot you and you never knew it was coming?

I was a considered abortion but Hey I'm here! My parents and I love eachother.

i guess it's all about reasons

my parents planned for me i think

basically...i never asked details but i think they used birth control except when they really wanted kids....

and we hate each other... xp

[Suicidesoldier#1]

wut

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Anyways, the problem with this argument is that it's hypocritical.

Either, life and well being doesn't matter, and there's no reason to let a woman have what she wants anymore than there is to not kill someone, or life does matter and thus killing someone or forcing a woman to be pregnant is still bad. You can't have it both ways.

[Steam Punk Adept]

Liliahna

Mistress Lithia

I am not a religious person yet I am against abortion. How could someone harm their child? Their own flesh and blood, innocent and helpless?
See for yourself, those who do go through an abortion mourn over their loss. Even if the child was unplanned or a product of rape.
abort73.com - Abortion stories from those who followed through

And for many more women, Abortion was EXACTLY what they wanted AND needed
I'm Not Sorry
Not every woman mourns an abortion. Typically the ones who do were women who really did NOT want to abort.

Can we leave your obviously biased link alone now?

[Liliahna]

Steam Punk Adept

Liliahna

Mistress Lithia

I am not a religious person yet I am against abortion. How could someone harm their child? Their own flesh and blood, innocent and helpless?
See for yourself, those who do go through an abortion mourn over their loss. Even if the child was unplanned or a product of rape.
abort73.com - Abortion stories from those who followed through

And for many more women, Abortion was EXACTLY what they wanted AND needed
I'm Not Sorry
Not every woman mourns an abortion. Typically the ones who do were women who really did NOT want to abort.

Can we leave your obviously biased link alone now?

Not biased. I read many of those stories and out of 10 that i read ONE person wasn't sorry.

[Steam Punk Adept]

Liliahna

Steam Punk Adept

Liliahna

Mistress Lithia

I am not a religious person yet I am against abortion. How could someone harm their child? Their own flesh and blood, innocent and helpless?
See for yourself, those who do go through an abortion mourn over their loss. Even if the child was unplanned or a product of rape.
abort73.com - Abortion stories from those who followed through

And for many more women, Abortion was EXACTLY what they wanted AND needed
I'm Not Sorry
Not every woman mourns an abortion. Typically the ones who do were women who really did NOT want to abort.

Can we leave your obviously biased link alone now?

Not biased. I read many of those stories and out of 10 that i read ONE person wasn't sorry.

Really? You read 10 stories from here and only found 1??? I'm not buying that one bit.

Ruth's Story

I did it before and I’d do it again. I am not ashamed or embarrassed. My children know that I have had an abortion. It is not a secret part of my life. I would advise anyone to do it.

Rose's Story

I am 57 years old and I have two grown children – a daughter and a son. I have had several abortions. I am not sorry at all, except for one. The truth is – in retrospect, I am not sorry about any of them – even the one that was coerced and distasteful and left me with some regrets. It was, in the long run, something for which I cannot be very sorry. Nothing about the pregnancy was good and that includes the abortion – but it was safe and it was legal.

Rollyn's Story

I do not mourn for an unborn child. I do feel sorrow for having so little self-esteem that I wasted my precious time and energy on an emotionally abusive relationship. I did not want to have a child from that relationship (and he certainly was not interested in being a father). I did not then, nor do I now, feel it was my responsibility to carry that pregnancy to term.

I had an abortion. I am not sorry.

Renee's Story

I am still scared about one thing – if people find out. I know I would be judged and although this was our decision to make, I know many people would feel I have done something wrong. While this notion still haunts me, I trust that if anyone did find out they wouldn’t be a worthy friend if they judged me for a choice that will not be regretted. I had an abortion, and I am not sorry.

Yeah, I doubt you even did more than look at the link and move on.

[Liliahna]

Steam Punk Adept

I am the one who found the website and created the link. Did you have fun sifting through the dozens of stories to find those four?
The one i linked, i did it because not only did she regret ending her unborn childs life but she also regretted it in her future because it caused her to lose pregnancies.
You can think what you want. I had a baby right before my 20th birthday and i could never imagine what my life would be like without him.
I'm not totally against abortion i just couldn't imagine myself doing something so horrid. However, In the end we are all human beings. We make mistakes and if you want to murder an unborn child then that's your mistake to make. What is the difference between killing and unborn infant and all the women you hear about drowning their children or abandoning them? In my opinion there is no difference. You are still killing the same being. Ending the same life.
Do as you wish, in the end you have to face the facts.

[Bogotanian]

I think it's a dangerous slippery slope to start defining personhood when we want to. For example, in a future where overpopulation exists and not enough food, who is to say that people won't say that a baby is not worth as much as a grown adult, so it's a woman's right to kill it (though they wouldn't call it kill since it's not the same value) so that she and the rest of her family can eat and it's one less mouth to feed? Or even with kids? Maybe the terminology will change and toddlers aren't considered as valuable as a full-grown adult.

[GunsmithKitten]

Bogotanian

I think it's a dangerous slippery slope to start defining personhood when we want to. For example, in a future where overpopulation exists and not enough food, who is to say that people won't say that a baby is not worth as much as a grown adult, so it's a woman's right to kill it (though they wouldn't call it kill since it's not the same value) so that she and the rest of her family can eat and it's one less mouth to feed? Or even with kids? Maybe the terminology will change and toddlers aren't considered as valuable as a full-grown adult.

We already put value on people as it is. It's called a salary/income bracket.

And how are you not defining personhood when YOU want to by saying "as soon as the sperm hits the egg, it's a person.".

[Bogotanian]

GunsmithKitten

Bogotanian

I think it's a dangerous slippery slope to start defining personhood when we want to. For example, in a future where overpopulation exists and not enough food, who is to say that people won't say that a baby is not worth as much as a grown adult, so it's a woman's right to kill it (though they wouldn't call it kill since it's not the same value) so that she and the rest of her family can eat and it's one less mouth to feed? Or even with kids? Maybe the terminology will change and toddlers aren't considered as valuable as a full-grown adult.

We already put value on people as it is. It's called a salary/income bracket.

And how are you not defining personhood when YOU want to by saying "as soon as the sperm hits the egg, it's a person.".

I said in an earlier post that that's my opinion. But I would be hesitant to do anything to another human/something that has the potential for human life.