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dolly milk's avatar

Shy Fairy

Nitroxwolf
What I'm trying to say is, if the woman haves the child with the man wanting an abortion, the man has to pay child support. But if a woman aborts the child, and the man wants the baby, he gets no compensation, or anything, he just gets to live his own life pretending like it never happened? Please tell me how that's equally fair.


It isn't equally fair, that's why I'm against it. And that's also why I brought up the issue of consent papers. If the man wants nothing to do with the child, and is clearly not consenting to paying child support, it's best to get that point through in an early stage of the pregnancy, so the woman can then decide: do I want to be miserable and take care of a child on my own, or should I abort it? In this kind of situation, the woman usually only really wants to keep the child because she believes that her partner will also be involved, and that she will have no worries or complications raising it because she'll have his help. But that's not always the case.

By giving birth to a child when she clearly knows the man wants nothing to do with it, she is consenting to caring for it on her own, no child support involved. That's how I see it.
pillar of salt's avatar

Fluffy Pup

Nitroxwolf
What I'm trying to say is, if the woman haves the child with the man wanting an abortion, the man has to pay child support. But if a woman aborts the child, and the man wants the baby, he gets no compensation, or anything, he just gets to live his own life pretending like it never happened? Please tell me how that's equally fair.
There's nothing preventing him from having a child with another partner if the disagreement between him and his current one is strong enough to warrant separation.
dirty icicles's avatar

Sparkly Sex Symbol

pillar of salt
Nitroxwolf
What I'm trying to say is, if the woman haves the child with the man wanting an abortion, the man has to pay child support. But if a woman aborts the child, and the man wants the baby, he gets no compensation, or anything, he just gets to live his own life pretending like it never happened? Please tell me how that's equally fair.
There's nothing preventing him from having a child with another partner if the disagreement between him and his current one is strong enough to warrant separation.


Besides, the man should be considerate enough to be able to look at things from the other side. If he's going to shame his girlfriend/wife for not wanting to have a child, he should leave. The woman would obviously be better off without him, and like Salt said, he can find another partner that's willing to have a baby with him.
Chocobo Fluff's avatar

Noble Inquisitor

Lacarnum Inflamaurae
Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods which kills life. I recommend to use family planning.


Are you trolling?
you say it like it's so simple
Have you ever been raped & gotten pregnant? Your mental state alone would be pretty jarred.
What about if you & your BF take the next step in your relationship, you get pregnant & he isn't willing to provide? What happens if you cannot afford it? Just throw it on your parents to raise?
Sometimes Adoption isn't even an option- because there are people in the world who believe in forcing the mother/father into raising the child for having it out of wedlock/ or it being unwanted.
You actually have to be in the situation to have a realistic opinion.

Let's say in a perfect world; everyone has the cute house, white picket fence, an education, people never lose their job & everyone get's along, my opinion might differ a little.


I'm not trying to disprove you, but you're basically saying 'people should be forced to have the child' Yes, let's punish those people! yeah, that'll reflect nicely on the kid. Face it, not every child gets adopted.
reality sucks- there is rape, incest, molestation; areas in the world where there is little to no education that is provided for females because it's against their religion or some other strict law to be taught anything.
In places in Africa, men with AIDs will have sex or rape virgins thinking it will cure them of AIDs & those women often time get pregnant from it, then the child has AIDs.


Until a fetus can feed itself, live outside my womb, speak for itself, think for itself; it has no say so because it may be 'alive' but technically it's no different than a person on Life support if you really think about it. The fetus is in my body, I control my body- noone else should.
I do believe in using contraceptives & being smart about sex.
Phallic Wonderland's avatar

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dolly milk
Phallic Wonderland
You're a liar. Flat out liar. I never said I didn't experience pain, I never said it was a walk in the park. You blow things out of proportion to justify your extreme viewpoint.

Lol, yes you did. You're calling me a liar when you're guilty of the exact same thing. Shove your hypocritical bullshit up your a**. How about I quote you here and remind you of your idiocy so you won't have anything to back up your false excuses.


Phallic Wonderland
one little p***k in the back makes all the pain and sensation go away.

Implying you did not feel any pain due to epidurals. Therefore, yes you did just say you did not experience pain.


Phallic Wonderland
You think it's this terrible awful thing

Implying that it wasn't terrible and awful for you, therefore it's not for anyone else. Yet again, more self-centered bullshit, because obviously you are the only woman in the world who has ever been pregnant. rolleyes


Phallic Wonderland
Lol "nine months of labor" you are such a negative nancy.

Implying that just because pregnancy was not a "negative" thing for you means that it isn't for anyone else. If it "isn't that bad", then don't bring up your bullshit contractions and inability to walk properly, if you're trying to convince people that pregnancy "isn't that bad", then you wouldn't be mentioning complications, because last time I checked complications usually turn people away from things. Common logic, buddy.


Phallic Wonderland
Labor sucks but dont make the whole trip sound like its a terrible experience, because it isn't.

Your own personal experience does not equate to everybody else's. Not everyone is a clone who goes through the exact same things. So I'll repeat myself again. You aren't the only person in the world, so drop your self-centered, egotistical bullshit and quit acting like you are.


Phallic Wonderland
It's like birth control, 97-99% effective if USED CORRECTLY.

Yes exactly, it can't be used correctly all the time, therefore there is a chance of failure. It does not "work the same for everyone" if there is a chance of failure. And I'll repeat myself again, regardless of whether something is being "used correctly" or not, that doesn't mean it works the same for every single person. That's like saying the same exact doses of tylenol provide the same level of pain relief for every person. But obviously that's false. It's a thing called immunity, look it up.


Phallic Wonderland
And you are a little girl, you needed to be schooled because you're a clueless little loner whose mommy and daddy treat you like a 4 year old. And I wonder why.

Cool story bro, whatever helps you sleep at night. If name calling and random assumptions about people's lives is the only way you're capable of responding to an argument, then you've got some maturing to do. When you display this type of behavior, you're practically admitting that you're losing.


Phallic Wonderland
EDIT: I yell because you piss me off. You're constantly using my experience as a reason for me to not have any room to speak, and the things you say aren't true. Believe me, I used to be a b***h like you, telling people that it's morally okay to kill a fetus in the womb. But times have changed, and though I may let people like you continue to murder babies, I will look down on it as birth control until the day I die. So yes, call me what you will, but suck a big fat donkey nut. Maybe you should be getting abortions as it is, I doubt with such controlling parents you'll be anything but an out-of-control rebellious nutjob not suitable for raising children.


And yet again, more hypocritical bullshit, guilty of the exact same things that you accuse me of doing. You use my lack of experience as a reason not to have a say. Not once did I imply that you aren't allowed to have a say, I just find it odd that one second you're saying that pregnancy is no big deal, then you move on to complaining about all the complications you had with your pregnancy. So make up your mind, or else you're just going to confuse people and make yourself look like a fool. No dear, you've got this twisted. I'm not the one who's calling anyone anything, that's your own crime. Don't blame your own faults on other people, that's not going to get you anywhere. You're the one who is acting like an immature little child, you can't even have a cordial argument, considering you were most likely raised in a barn, and you resort to name calling and throwing around immature insults like a ******** crybaby. You're throwing a tantrum over a petty discussion on the internet. Seriously, what's your ******** problem? You have got some major issues. Grow up.



Edit:
Phallic Wonderland
suck a big fat donkey nut


Jaaten Syric
Cry moar, your tears are delicious.


Then you are misunderstanding me -again-. Lets break it down:

1) Women are not in labor the whole nine months, therefore labor pains do not account for most of the pregnancy. That is why I called you a negative nancy, because labor is not throughout the nine month period, only the last few hours to a day. (Though people have said they have been in labor for more than 24 hours, dilation without labor, and Braxton Hicks are very very common)

2)Epidurals can be corrected and most women forego labor pains at all by 5cm. It may as well be 99.99% accurate given correction by the anesthetician. While I waited until 8cm (and yes it was excruciating pain) not everyone does, some even pre-arrange epidurals.

I am saying that, in the long run a healthy pregnancy is NOT the worst thing in the world to experience. Not that it is easy, but it is not this terrible thing that many pro-choice people make it out to be to justify abortion. I find it ridiculous that things such as bodily figure has more leeway than a new life.
Jaaten Syric's avatar

Liberal Zealot

Nitroxwolf


So basically you're saying that its in their body, so they have the sole choice of deciding if it lives or dies?


Yep.

Quote:
Lets not forget that even if its her body, it is still his son/daughter also, and he may not have been planning on having a baby, but it took two to make it, and it should take two to decide on what happens to it.


Oh, see, I thought that maybe it was more sensible to leave the decision whether or not to continue a pregnancy to the person who is, you know, pregnant. Do I believe she has a moral obligation to consult him? Eh, maybe, but she has absolutely no duty to consider his desires seeing as how it does not effect him.

Quote:
Furthermore, if said woman didn't want to have the baby, well there were things she could've done to prevent it. She should've been on birth control, and now that the situation had rose, she gets to decide what to do with the child, no that is not fair at all.


I find this whole 'fairness' argument absurd. Biology isn't fair, stop pretending it is.
Steam Punk Adept's avatar

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Nitroxwolf
Furthermore, if said woman didn't want to have the baby, well there were things she could've done to prevent it. She should've been on birth control, and now that the situation had rose, she gets to decide what to do with the child, no that is not fair at all.
Because Birth Control NEVER fails, right? You make it sound like the only people who have abortions are filthy whores who ******** anything that moves without even thinking about popping a pill or using a condom. Go check some facts.
Jaaten Syric's avatar

Liberal Zealot

Old Blue Collar Joe

What you're willing to pay is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It's what would be legally fair.


No, see it's not. I'm on the bottom rung of the economic ladder, I have multiple competing obligations and very little spare cash on hand. I am also child-free and sexually active. As bad off financially as I am, I could still afford the average child support awarded by my state. I'm in terrible shape financially and child support would be a burden, but I could adapt pretty easily without even picking up a second job. If I can do it, the average MRA has no excuse.


Quote:
And he has pretty much no recourse. They've had men that the woman lied and named him father and the damn judge, years after, when they discovered it, determined it was still his responsibility because the poor child would be distraught. No ******** given about the man's rights.


Oh look, a conservative douchehat generalizing from incredibly rare cases in order to strip the rights from a huge majority of people. How very shocking

Quote:
I never once implied that. You just made the leap. I simply stated he should have just as much right to abort as she does.


Nope, he shouldn't. I'm not saying that it should be impossible to terminate your parental rights, just that terminating them requires what it always has: a court order. That is fair. If you want child support and one parent refuses, you take them to court, if you want to terminate your parental rights, take it to court. Seems fair enough to me.

Quote:
He pays her the going costs, and whether she decides to keep the fetus or not is no longer his problem. He's met his financial obligation. This magical belief the pro-abortion crowd has that it's a fetus until it pops out of a v****a should hold true to his decision not to be a parent too.


It does. I'm not asking him to pay for her prenatal care, I'm asking him to pay a tiny percentage of the cost of supporting a child to ensure the smooth functioning of society.

Quote:
Instead, he really has no option. (Show one case where the biological father wasn't required to pay child support at court. I'd love to see that.)


From an MRA website: Mothers were awarded child support in 72% of the cases, and no support was awarded in 21% of the cases.. That literally took me ten seconds to google and your own side states that more than 1/5 of cases end with no support awarded.

Oops.

Quote:
And...we jump on the fantasy wagon to socialism where everything is bubblegum and lollipops again.


Oh I have no illusions, It just seems to have a better track record than laissez-faire nonsense you idiots are always pushing.
dolly milk's avatar

Shy Fairy

Phallic Wonderland
Then you are misunderstanding me -again-. Lets break it down:

1) Women are not in labor the whole nine months, therefore labor pains do not account for most of the pregnancy. That is why I called you a negative nancy, because labor is not throughout the nine month period, only the last few hours to a day. (Though people have said they have been in labor for more than 24 hours, dilation without labor, and Braxton Hicks are very very common)

2)Epidurals can be corrected and most women forego labor pains at all by 5cm. It may as well be 99.99% accurate given correction by the anesthetician. While I waited until 8cm (and yes it was excruciating pain) not everyone does, some even pre-arrange epidurals.

I am saying that, in the long run a healthy pregnancy is NOT the worst thing in the world to experience. Not that it is easy, but it is not this terrible thing that many pro-choice people make it out to be to justify abortion. I find it ridiculous that things such as bodily figure has more leeway than a new life.



I never said anything about them being in labor for 9 months, that would be illogical. But that doesn't change the fact that pregnancy itself is a complicated experience with many risks and negative symptoms. Of course it isn't the WORST thing, but it still isn't easy, and anyone who acts like it is(anti-choice males especially) are extremely biased and are failing to take the lives and personal experiences of others into consideration. And I'll repeat myself again: just because it was not terrible for YOU specifically, doesn't mean it wasn't for other people, so of course if they did not have a good experience with pregnancy, they aren't going to interpret or describe it that way.

And it has nothing to do with bodily figure, it's for their own health and wellbeing. Not everybody is interested in getting dog sick just to let a parasite feed off their body.

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