Lets discuss about Abortion/contraceptives

[Lacarnum Inflamaurae]

im a pro-life but i wanted to hear the stand of opposing groups as well.
Listen to this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXQ8oFulRA

[Lacarnum Inflamaurae]

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods which kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

[Corrupting Clay]

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods that kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

Shooting your puppy for no reason is immoral.

Shooting your puppy because it has rabies and you need to put it down gets you a children's book award.

Women don't abort their potential children for shits and giggles. They do it because they're desperate. This pro-life concept that there are women out there just flippantly aborting their kids, when abortion is very much an unenjoyable and unfun procedure that puts a woman through social stigma and physical hazard, just plain pisses me off.

Edit: I suppose I should actually do a bit of the devil's advocacy you're looking for so I can contribute. Okay, here goes:

-If we suppose that a government exists to promote the welfare of the individuals within it,
-And that it is the government's duty to promote the welfare of individuals,
-And that the government is empowered to impose a burden on other members of society in order to facilitate this duty (normally, taxes),
-Then we can reframe placing a burden on a woman to carry a child to term as a form of 'pregnancy tax', to promote the welfare of a member of society and placing that duty on someone else.
-Now, at present that's a very naive implementation that unevenly distributes the burden of protecting our nation's unborn. So what if we make everyone pay a percentage of this tax, proportional to their ability to contribute (so probably a progressive tax), and then subsidize pregnancies by having the government pay for their costs and for maternity leave and such?

That's a pro-life position from a liberal perspective, treating abortion as a public health problem and using a welfare system to address it. And what's wrong with it?

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Corrupting Clay

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods that kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

Shooting your puppy for no reason is immoral.

Shooting your puppy because it has rabies and you need to put it down gets you a children's book award.

Women don't abort their potential children for shits and giggles. They do it because they're desperate. This pro-life concept that there are women out there just flippantly aborting their kids, when abortion is very much an unenjoyable and unfun procedure that puts a woman through social stigma and physical hazard, just plain pisses me off.

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience those that make excuses such as you just did is just as ******** stupid as those that claim they're all for funzies.

[Corrupting Clay]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Corrupting Clay

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

The bullshit is predominately those claiming they only had them because it was life threatening. Ranks up there with those that claim they aren't fat, just big boned. Big, mushy bones.

[Lacarnum Inflamaurae]

Corrupting Clay

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods that kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

Shooting your puppy for no reason is immoral.

Shooting your puppy because it has rabies and you need to put it down gets you a children's book award.

Women don't abort their potential children for shits and giggles. They do it because they're desperate. This pro-life concept that there are women out there just flippantly aborting their kids, when abortion is very much an unenjoyable and unfun procedure that puts a woman through social stigma and physical hazard, just plain pisses me off.

Edit: I suppose I should actually do a bit of the devil's advocacy you're looking for so I can contribute. Okay, here goes:

-If we suppose that a government exists to promote the welfare of the individuals within it,
-And that it is the government's duty to promote the welfare of individuals,
-And that the government is empowered to impose a burden on other members of society in order to facilitate this duty (normally, taxes),
-Then we can reframe placing a burden on a woman to carry a child to term as a form of 'pregnancy tax', to promote the welfare of a member of society and placing that duty on someone else.
-Now, at present that's a very naive implementation that unevenly distributes the burden of protecting our nation's unborn. So what if we make everyone pay a percentage of this tax, proportional to their ability to contribute (so probably a progressive tax), and then subsidize pregnancies by having the government pay for their costs and for maternity leave and such?

That's a pro-life position from a liberal perspective, treating abortion as a public health problem and using a welfare system to address it. And what's wrong with it?

Im also uncertain about contraceptives, what do you think of them?

[Steam Punk Adept]

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods which kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

Choosing not to abort and dumping your kid on others is just as immoral, and in some cases I even view it as more immoral. Forcing your moral beliefs on others is immoral. Pro-Life is not what it claims to be, and is very immoral. Your views are not mine, and I would prefer you keep your moral views to your life, and not affect mine.

[Lacarnum Inflamaurae]

Steam Punk Adept

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Abortion is just immoral. People should learn to control themselves and the best way is to take away their chances from escaping these circumstances by the use of such methods which kills life. I recommend to use family planning.

Choosing not to abort and dumping your kid on others is just as immoral, and in some cases I even view it as more immoral. Forcing your moral beliefs on others is immoral. Pro-Life is not what it claims to be, and is very immoral. Your views are not mine, and I would prefer you keep your moral views to your life, and not affect mine.

I respect your stand. But i have the right to do everything what i wanted and those children have the right to live. Consume it or not.

[hahahalolwut]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Corrupting Clay

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

The bullshit is predominately those claiming they only had them because it was life threatening. Ranks up there with those that claim they aren't fat, just big boned. Big, mushy bones.

is your assertion here that abortion is never a medically necessary procedure?

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

hahahalolwut

Old Blue Collar Joe

Corrupting Clay

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

The bullshit is predominately those claiming they only had them because it was life threatening. Ranks up there with those that claim they aren't fat, just big boned. Big, mushy bones.

is your assertion here that abortion is never a medically necessary procedure?

Read my first post. I covered that. I never once said there weren't cases where it was a medical necessity to save the woman's life. I stated that it is not the predominate reason for abortions, nothing more.
I also grow sick and tired of those who want everyone to apparently hold a parade for them when they are committing what many view as infanticide. Don't worry, this will be my last post on this particular thread, since arguing abortion is about as reasonable as arguing religion.
It's a waste of time and effort on both parts. I don't really give two shits one way or another until they start the typical 'let the taxpayers fund their ********' routine, which I am adamantly against.

[hahahalolwut]

Old Blue Collar Joe

hahahalolwut

Old Blue Collar Joe

Corrupting Clay

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

The bullshit is predominately those claiming they only had them because it was life threatening. Ranks up there with those that claim they aren't fat, just big boned. Big, mushy bones.

is your assertion here that abortion is never a medically necessary procedure?

Read my first post. I covered that. I never once said there weren't cases where it was a medical necessity to save the woman's life. I stated that it is not the predominate reason for abortions, nothing more.
I also grow sick and tired of those who want everyone to apparently hold a parade for them when they are committing what many view as infanticide. Don't worry, this will be my last post on this particular thread, since arguing abortion is about as reasonable as arguing religion.
It's a waste of time and effort on both parts. I don't really give two shits one way or another until they start the typical 'let the taxpayers fund their ********' routine, which I am adamantly against.

fund their abortion or fund their welfare. we're already on the hook for the latter.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

hahahalolwut

Old Blue Collar Joe

hahahalolwut

Old Blue Collar Joe

Corrupting Clay

Old Blue Collar Joe

Considering how many are done as matters of convenience...

The point of my post is that I think that number is mostly imaginary. Made up. Not a thing.

BS, even.

The bullshit is predominately those claiming they only had them because it was life threatening. Ranks up there with those that claim they aren't fat, just big boned. Big, mushy bones.

is your assertion here that abortion is never a medically necessary procedure?

Read my first post. I covered that. I never once said there weren't cases where it was a medical necessity to save the woman's life. I stated that it is not the predominate reason for abortions, nothing more.
I also grow sick and tired of those who want everyone to apparently hold a parade for them when they are committing what many view as infanticide. Don't worry, this will be my last post on this particular thread, since arguing abortion is about as reasonable as arguing religion.
It's a waste of time and effort on both parts. I don't really give two shits one way or another until they start the typical 'let the taxpayers fund their ********' routine, which I am adamantly against.

fund their abortion or fund their welfare. we're already on the hook for the latter.

I'd rather feed a child than murder it.

[Corrupting Clay]

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

Im also uncertain about contraceptives, what do you think of them?

What I actually think about contraceptives, or do you want me to try to devil's advocate an anti-contraceptive position?

[frozen_water]

Lacarnum Inflamaurae

But i have the right to do everything what i wanted and those children have the right to live. Consume it or not.

Pro-lifers do not leave the option of "consuming it or not" they want to mandate everyone adhere to their set of beliefs.