Lets discuss about Abortion/contraceptives

[dolly milk]

Nitroxwolf

Most men are not that shallow as to get a woman pregnant just for her dna. Plus we're talking about accidental conception, the way you're talking it seems that you think men poke holes in condoms just to get a woman pregnant.

Either way, forcing her into birthing your child has something to do with HER specifically, it is not just the sake of it being your child or wanting a child. If it was, you would find somebody who is willing to consent. Getting somebody pregnant is not that difficult, a result of something such as unwanted, unplanned pregnancy is a good example of that.

[Nitroxwolf]

dolly milk

Nitroxwolf

Yes it is her body, and her decision, but it also the life of someone else, and his child also, is it so bad that the man wants to give his own son/daughter a chance of life? I'm just saying that it gets personal when its your child. Plus its not selfish to want to give something a chance of life, and if that man wants to raise it, using his own money, and time. I say let him. And if that person wants to be selfish, and care only for their body, well they have some maturing to do.

And I'll repeat myself again, if he wants a child so badly, then he can find somebody who is willing to consent to birthing his child, not forcing somebody who is unwilling. If there was some magical way to transplant a fetus out of a woman's womb and into the man's body for him to incubate himself, then this wouldn't be problem, but unfortunately we do not have that kind of technology. You are not obligated to forcing a woman into using her body as your own personal incubator your own selfish desires. You are just as selfish as anyone else, your only argument in this matter is "me me me, I I I, want want want", you don't take her body and what kind of complications she has to go through into consideration whatsoever. You think that pregnancy is just some sort of walk in the park for the woman when it isn't, you are not and never will be in her shoes, so quit acting like you're entitled just because it partially consists of your DNA. There are billions of women on this earth, she is not the only one you will ever get the chance to impregnate.

If two people work the same job, and one works harder and puts more effort into their job than the other, is it reasonable that the one who worked harder gets a higher amount of pay? Or are they both obligated to equal pay just because they work the same job, despite one having done less work than the other? Logic, buddy.

I don't see anything selfish about saving something's life. If your gonna get an abortion just to duck out of the pain, let me just say this, whatever pain you'll feel from pregnancy, you'll feel over a span of decades in emotional pain. This is without saying the chances of an abortion not going well, and you losing your chance to conceive another child, so theres also that. No I won't be in her shoes, but try to look at it from the father's perspective, you see someone else deciding if your child lives or dies, how would feel if that happened to you. Never being able to see him or her grow up? And who said that I am trying to force a woman into having a child, no never, I'm just saying that both, the mother and the father will have emotional problems for a long time if that happens. An Abortion isn't something that you can just walk off, and no pregnancy isn't either, but still it would be better to think that you gave something a chance at life, than just killing something before it even saw day.

[dolly milk]

Nitroxwolf

I don't see anything selfish about saving something's life. If your gonna get an abortion just to duck out of the pain, let me just say this, whatever pain you'll feel from pregnancy, you'll feel over a span of decades in emotional pain. This is without saying the chances of an abortion not going well, and you losing your chance to conceive another child, so theres also that. No I won't be in her shoes, but try to look at it from the father's perspective, you see someone else deciding if your child lives or dies, how would feel if that happened to you. Never being able to see him or her grow up? And who said that I am trying to force a woman into having a child, no never, I'm just saying that both, the mother and the father will have emotional problems for a long time if that happens. An Abortion isn't something that you can just walk off, and no pregnancy isn't either, but still it would be better to think that you gave something a chance at life, than just killing something before it even saw day.

I'm not here to argue with you on your pro-birth anti-woman bullshit, so quit beating around the bush and looking for excuses to compensate for your fetish of making women your breeding incubators. People do not get abortions because of pain, they get abortions because they don't want to be pregnant and they don't want to give birth. You make it sound as if every single woman who has an abortion will have emotional trauma from it, when they don't. http://imnotsorry.net is good proof of that. I personally would find it more traumatizing being forced to endure a pregnancy that you don't want, from a primitive, sadistic ******** who thinks he's obligated to use all women as his personal broodmare slaves. And even more emotional pain knowing that your child could be suffering in an orphanage, rotting in that hellhole until they're 18 with the thought of nobody loving them embedded into their brains. When a woman chooses to have an abortion, she is willingly accepting the risks of any complications that abortion may cause for her. Nobody forces women into having abortions, so there's no reason to force them into not having abortions either. And no, you see an independent person making choices on what's best for their bodies and their mental wellbeing, and not allowing primitive, misogynistic ******** like yourself to push them around like they're less of human beings just because they have a parasite growing inside of them. The potential for a child is not the same as an actual child. Let's suggest the woman miscarries or the child comes out stillborn? Then it's just a wasted opportunity.

And again, you still suggest that emotional damage is absolute in every single woman who has an abortion. You're just further proving how sheltered you are on this topic, quit getting your statistics from bullshit anti-choice sites that cater to your own opinion. An abortion is not something that you can walk off? I beg to differ. See the previous URL provided for more info.

We don't force people into donating kidneys, or blood, or bone marrow, we don't force people to shave their heads and donate all their hair to locks of love, therefore abortion should be considered no different. Nobody is obligated to give up a part of their body for the sake of another, be it in regards to that person's life or not.

[Nitroxwolf]

dolly milk

Nitroxwolf

I don't see anything selfish about saving something's life. If your gonna get an abortion just to duck out of the pain, let me just say this, whatever pain you'll feel from pregnancy, you'll feel over a span of decades in emotional pain. This is without saying the chances of an abortion not going well, and you losing your chance to conceive another child, so theres also that. No I won't be in her shoes, but try to look at it from the father's perspective, you see someone else deciding if your child lives or dies, how would feel if that happened to you. Never being able to see him or her grow up? And who said that I am trying to force a woman into having a child, no never, I'm just saying that both, the mother and the father will have emotional problems for a long time if that happens. An Abortion isn't something that you can just walk off, and no pregnancy isn't either, but still it would be better to think that you gave something a chance at life, than just killing something before it even saw day.

I'm not here to argue with you on your pro-birth anti-woman bullshit, so quit beating around the bush and looking for excuses to compensate for your fetish of making women your breeding incubators. People do not get abortions because of pain, they get abortions because they don't want to be pregnant and they don't want to give birth. You make it sound as if every single woman who has an abortion will have emotional trauma from it, when they don't. http://imnotsorry.net is good proof of that. I personally would find it more traumatizing being forced to endure a pregnancy that you don't want, from a primitive, sadistic ******** who thinks he's obligated to use all women as his personal broodmare slaves. And even more emotional pain knowing that your child could be suffering in an orphanage, rotting in that hellhole until they're 18 with the thought of nobody loving them embedded into their brains. When a woman chooses to have an abortion, she is willingly accepting the risks of any complications that abortion may cause for her. Nobody forces women into having abortions, so there's no reason to force them into not having abortions either. And no, you see an independent person making choices on what's best for their bodies and their mental wellbeing, and not allowing primitive, misogynistic ******** like yourself to push them around like they're less of human beings just because they have a parasite growing inside of them. The potential for a child is not the same as an actual child. Let's suggest the woman miscarries or the child comes out stillborn? Then it's just a wasted opportunity.

And again, you still suggest that emotional damage is absolute in every single woman who has an abortion. You're just further proving how sheltered you are on this topic, quit getting your statistics from bullshit anti-choice sites that cater to your own opinion. An abortion is not something that you can walk off? I beg to differ. See the previous URL provided for more info.

We don't force people into donating kidneys, or blood, or bone marrow, we don't force people to shave their heads and donate all their hair to locks of love, therefore abortion should be considered no different. Nobody is obligated to give up a part of their body for the sake of another, be it in regards to that person's life or not.

Where did I say that I want a child, nowhere, exactly, I just said that if the complication rose up to where my partner was pregnant, I'd hope that she'd keep the baby. And where did I say that I like for women to have pain from pregnancies, I dont, and the way you're talking, you make it sound that the only reason that men want them to keep the baby is for them to feel the pain of having a child, no, that dumb as hell. Plus I'm not saying that I'm gonna force her to have the baby, its her final decision after all, I'm just hoping that she would think about all the options before the came up with a decision. Plus you're thinking that if as soon as the baby is born, it'll be taken away to an orphanage, no, What i'm saying that is if the father wants to raise the baby, and will take care of it, why not let him. You keep forgetting that i'm saying that.

And no, I'm not trying to force the woman to have the child, I'm just saying that it would be morally right to do it, and not just kill it right there. You're making this sound more like I'm trying to take away all of women's rights, no I'm not, I'm not setting men up on a pedastool above women. And I say again, I'm not saying that all women should have their babies, needless of what they say, I'm just saying that if the man wants to keep it, at least hear him out.

[dolly milk]

Nitroxwolf

And no, I'm not trying to force the woman to have the child, I'm just saying that it would be morally right to do it, and not just kill it right there. You're making this sound more like I'm trying to take away all of women's rights, no I'm not, I'm not setting men up on a pedastool above women. And I say again, I'm not saying that all women should have their babies, needless of what they say, I'm just saying that if the man wants to keep it, at least hear him out.

Fine then, that's all you needed to say. Nobody is arguing against men having an opinion, like I already said, you can try to persuade her as much as you want, but that is about as much say as you get. There is no legally forcing them into doing it. Ever. That's that.

[Nightshade Flowers]

Jaaten Syric

Nightshade Flowers

I'm not being lazy, I'm being truthful. This whole debate is a bunch of people screaming at each other that "It's murder!" "It's a right!" "Baby killer!" "Fascist!". If your opinion changed it's not because someone said you were a baby killer or a woman-hater, it's because you, as a person, have changed.

Yes, and? What, exactly, do you think the catalyst for that change was? It was arguing with people. It was getting my a** handed to me and having my ignorance thrown in my face for all to see. Like I said, don't confuse the rarity of converts with their absence.

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The argument is always going to be the same. The same sides, the same reasoning, the same stupid argument over and over. There's no reason for anyone to even talk about it anymore. It's such a hot issue that it's almost a non-issue. As in, it's never going to end so why-freaking-bother?

Except that it can, has, and will continue to work. The only way to guarantee the status quo is, weirdly enough, exactly what you advocate.

Yeah, look, I get why you "fight the good fight", so to speak, but I remain completely unconvinced that this topic is even worth talking about anymore. It's never going to just die. On and on, round and round we'll go.

That's the last I have to say about it.

[Jaaten Syric]

Nitroxwolf

Yes it is her body, and her decision, but it also the life of someone else, and his child also, is it so bad that the man wants to give his own son/daughter a chance of life?

When he wants to ensure it gets that chance through coercion, yeah, it is.

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I'm just saying that it gets personal when its your child. Plus its not selfish to want to give something a chance of life, and if that man wants to raise it, using his own money, and time. I say let him.

The ******** it isn't. He's asking someone else to give up their right to bodily autonomy for the sake of something they do not want and which will put them at substantially greater risk than their preferred solution all so he can play daddy. In what twisted universe is that not selfish?

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And if that person wants to be selfish, and care only for their body, well they have some maturing to do.

If 'maturity' is being coerced to surrender the use of your body for someone else's wishes then I want no part of it.

[Nitroxwolf]

Jaaten Syric

When he wants to ensure it gets that chance through coercion, yeah, it is.

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The ******** it isn't. He's asking someone else to give up their right to bodily autonomy for the sake of something they do not want and which will put them at substantially greater risk than their preferred solution all so he can play daddy. In what twisted universe is that not selfish?

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If 'maturity' is being coerced to surrender the use of your body for someone else's wishes then I want no part of it.

Sir in my entire discussion i did not say 'force' once did I, I just wanted to show that the Father should have an opinion into what will happen to the child. If you read my last post you would've saw that.

[low iq 111]

why should humans use water for bathing everyday when that water could be inside of different living organisms? we should stop bathing and start trying to promote all forms of life.

[Phallic Wonderland]

dolly milk

Phallic Wonderland

And that consent can be revoked at ANY. TIME. Divorce processes are traumatizing enough for children, much less the parents who love them. If there is an accidental pregnancy, it should be talked about and I'm sure you agree about that. But in an example of conflicting moral compasses, where the woman is morally okay with abortion and the man wants to at least father his child, there should be a little leeway, even if in the end she gives up complete custody to the father. In a stable long-term relationship, this scenario probably wouldn't happen, but there is still a chance. So saying that marriage is going to keep things copacetic is logically inaccurate as divorce happens all the time.

I never said "walk in the park" I'm making you aware of epidurals. You think it's this terrible awful thing when one little p***k in the back makes all the pain and sensation go away.

That consent can be revoked at any time during the pregnancy, and when they are still legally capable of aborting a fetus. They might change their mind about staying with that person and uniting as a whole family, but she is still capable of consenting to whether or not she wants to birth the child for him. And that's what my exact argument is; they don't want her to give birth to the child just because they want a child, they do it because they want to either:

a. have a family with that person
b. are desperate to include her DNA is said child, which brings back the topic of using them as broodmares for their own selfish breeding needs.

And like I already said, if they want a family with somebody, it's better to find somebody who is consenting to having a family, rather than just seeking somebody with a specific DNA to satisfy their primal, ape-like urges and forcing them into something that they don't want to do. That specific woman isn't the only one who he will ever be capable of impregnating; there are others, and it's better to have a child with somebody who is consenting to it. They have no reason to force ONE SPECIFIC person into pregnancy if all they want is a child.

It makes all the pain and sensation go away? Oh really now? Then explain to me why almost 99.9% of childbirth scenarios consist of said woman screaming and moaning in agony?

Because you're watching MOVIES and TELEVISION! Honestly, I fought my hardest through most of the contractions, but you can get an epidural as early as 4cm dilation and not even feel any contractions at all. The grunting and whatnot of pushing is still happening, even when you are numb, because you can't feel yourself pushing. Screaming and moaning in agony are for those who want a drug-free, vaginal birth.

[Jaaten Syric]

Nitroxwolf

Sir in my entire discussion i did not say 'force' once did I,

In my reply, did I use the word? No? Then why are you complaining?

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I just wanted to show that the Father should have an opinion into what will happen to the child.

An opinion or a say. I can't stop him from having an opinion, of from voicing it no matter how stupid and selfish it may be, but he most assuredly does not and should not have a say.

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If you read my last post you would've saw that.

If your objections had any basis in what I'd typed that might just be relevant.

[dolly milk]

Phallic Wonderland

Because you're watching MOVIES and TELEVISION! Honestly, I fought my hardest through most of the contractions, but you can get an epidural as early as 4cm dilation and not even feel any contractions at all. The grunting and whatnot of pushing is still happening, even when you are numb, because you can't feel yourself pushing. Screaming and moaning in agony are for those who want a drug-free, vaginal birth.

All I'm reading is: "childbirth wasn't painful for me, therefore it's painful for nobody." "pregnancy was easy for me, therefore it's easy for everyone else." Me me me, I I I.

I'll repeat myself again. You are not the only person in the world. So quit acting like it.

[Nitroxwolf]

Jaaten Syric

Nitroxwolf

Sir in my entire discussion i did not say 'force' once did I,

In my reply, did I use the word? No? Then why are you complaining?

Quote:

I just wanted to show that the Father should have an opinion into what will happen to the child.

An opinion or a say. I can't stop him from having an opinion, of from voicing it no matter how stupid and selfish it may be, but he most assuredly does not and should not have a say.

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If you read my last post you would've saw that.

If your objections had any basis in what I'd typed that might just be relevant.

Coercion (pron.: /koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced. Torture is one of the most extreme examples of coercion i.e. severe pain is inflicted until the victim provides the desired response.

You used that word multiple times in your post, I never said it, or any word that could be relatable to it.

And yes, the father should have a say, its his child.

[Phallic Wonderland]

dolly milk

Phallic Wonderland

Because you're watching MOVIES and TELEVISION! Honestly, I fought my hardest through most of the contractions, but you can get an epidural as early as 4cm dilation and not even feel any contractions at all. The grunting and whatnot of pushing is still happening, even when you are numb, because you can't feel yourself pushing. Screaming and moaning in agony are for those who want a drug-free, vaginal birth.

All I'm reading is: "childbirth wasn't painful for me, therefore it's painful for nobody." "pregnancy was easy for me, therefore it's easy for everyone else." Me me me, I I I.

I'll repeat myself again. You are not the only person in the world. So quit acting like it.

******** you you whiny ignorant a*****e. Have you been pregnant? Have you HAD an epidural?? Have you had ANY of the experiences you're whining about to justify abortion? NO. You haven't.

Epidurals work the same for EVERYONE.

NO I WAS NOT PEACHY KEEN. I WAS LIMPING THE WHOLE LAST TWO WEEKS OF MY PREGNANCY BECAUSE MY SON WAS SO FAR IN MY PELVIS I COULDN'T WALK PROPERLY. SO ******** YOU, GET BENT.

[Steam Punk Adept]

Nitroxwolf

If your gonna get an abortion just to duck out of the pain, let me just say this, whatever pain you'll feel from pregnancy, you'll feel over a span of decades in emotional pain.

Because EVERY woman MUST be emotionally traumatized by having an abortion. /sarcasm
Seriously, you wanna go that route? You seriously want to pull that bullshit?
Fine, evidence to the contrary has been presented. Kindly go ******** yourself and the bullshit propaganda you rode in on.