Legalizing prostitution (mature only please)

Are you for or against prostitution

For	49.1%	[ 79 ]
Against	21.1%	[ 34 ]
Neutral	27.3%	[ 44 ]
undiciede	2.5%	[ 4 ]
Total Votes:			[ 161 ]

[en-pointe off-balance]

Riviera de la Mancha

en-pointe off-balance

Riviera de la Mancha

en-pointe off-balance

Project 429

A fairer example would have been Nevada. Anyway, legal or not, there's going to be prostitution. It's a supply and demand issue. Even in countries where the penalty for prostitution is death, they still catch them (allegedly). I say let's get the girls off the street. Reading your source, I get the impression that legalization would decrease the murder rate as well. Illegal transactions are dangerous, (because there is no good way to handle disputes) legalization would mean less dead hookers.

I agree with your view on my source - but it is an unfinished study and the possibility that women are killed because of the illegal transaction is but one of several theories. However, I strongly support your suggestion - rather than sitting here, debating about safe, healthy, and fair legalization of prostitution in a perfect world, isn't it easier and wiser to agree that prostitution, as a whole, should end? If it were as completely unacceptable in society as, say, child molestation, and the people who went to prostitutes were looked down on the same way, with the same disgust and fury, it would rapidly cause the industry to decline.

Actually, it has been looked down for some time in American history, with no such success.

Oh, certainly it is looked down on, but not with the same ardor as other sex crimes. A politician or public figure who is shown to be involved in a prostitution ring is humiliated and forced to resign, obviously, but a politician who molested a child and was caught? The public would be screaming for blood.

I am saying that, historically for a time, it was met with such a fury. Look into the reformation efforts in American history, about the time when it was first criminalized. The social pressure was of such an intensity as you seek, and yet, we did not see the effect you claim we would expect.

I will look into that, actually. I've never studied that time period. Thanks. I suppose though, it was paranoid for me to predict such a violent response.

[CoffeeSip]

en-pointe off-balance

xXGreenlylXx

I read a book on the history of prostitution and it was very interesting. I think it should be treated like any other career choice, I don't think the social stigma that so many associate with the sexual act is healthy and is a tool of repression. Regulatory standards are desperately needed to keep the industry safe. Legalization would make monitoring easier and allow health workers an opportunity to inform those involved as to how to be safe and healthy. It is my opinion that laws governing how a person enjoys their body are out dated. It is my opinion that this issue is just another distraction from other bigger issues, I am impatient with the lack of support for legalization. I would prefer if the activity was supervised to keep it safe and professional and that would eliminate the problems associated with the issue. I believe the criminalization allows for those very abuses to take place that we are trying to avoid and that decriminalization would solve them. It would be interesting if there was a study done to compare, but I don't know of any?

There is already so much crime and so many problems involved with prostitution, even in a place like Amsterdam where it has been legalized, that its doubtful that "decriminalization would solve them". Girls are drugged, abused, smuggled, kidnapped; pimps become felons and managers of a business of human trafficking, because no one would be a prostitute otherwise.

However if you mean that random co-eds should be allowed to request payment for ******** guys she meets at bars, then I don't genuinely have any opinion on that. That's not the discussion here. "How people enjoy their body"? Who becomes a prostitute in order to fully "enjoy" their body?

I honestly have no clue what would motivate a person to decide to trade sexual favors in exchange for money. Not my worry who, but all these things you mention are crimes, it seems the problem is with enforcement. Another issue completely. If the police and Goverment are corrupt prostitution is really not the issue and not a real representation of legalized prostitiution in my opinion.

I also disagree completely with it being a random act, if it is a profession it should be professionally done like any other industry with the same type of laws and regulation type of conditions. A person would have to be at 'work' to practice.

[GunsmithKitten]

Quote:

However if you mean that random co-eds should be allowed to request payment for ******** guys she meets at bars, then I don't genuinely have any opinion on that.

Why not? That's PROSTITUTION.

Even in my example of taking a 20 dollar bill from my girlfriend for a round of nookie I otherwise wouldn't have granted, THAT'S PROSTITUTION.

[Amalia Segreta]

I've sort of had a change of heart on this topic in recent years.
I believe that for some women, prostitution is a logical and reasonable profession which could be quite lucrative and have no ill effects. I also believe that there are some brothels (awful word) that are well run, pretty safe, and make it easier for customers to find clean prostitutes.

But, it is also true that areas where the sex trade is well established (legal or accepted), there is an increase in human trafficking and other kinds of crimes that go with that.

I'm concerned that if the profession is legalized, it will make it herder to protect the victims of those crimes. As it is now, any place suspected of being a brothel can be searched and arrests made

As a result, I'm not against legalizing the profession but I would want to see so many regulations and laws, etc. in places (and enforcement of those laws), that it may not make it really feasible for any city to license such establishments or for an owner to be willing to open one.

[Akhenaton of man]

Demetri Nolan

Im against it. Not that I think it's wrong and goes against my values or anything, but I think any woman who's a prostitute, is probably not a person whos a real decent peice of society, and I definatly think that all that money could go somewhere better.

Are you joking? Sex has a big place in society.

[I got bored one day]

GunsmithKitten

Quote:

However if you mean that random co-eds should be allowed to request payment for ******** guys she meets at bars, then I don't genuinely have any opinion on that.

Why not? That's PROSTITUTION.

Even in my example of taking a 20 dollar bill from my girlfriend for a round of nookie I otherwise wouldn't have granted, THAT'S PROSTITUTION.

No, that is an example of a situation that resembles prostitution. Prostitution is the direct exchange of sex for goods, this means that it is an exclusive business deal. You are literally paid for sex. All semblances and "witty retorts" are not actual prostitution on any level.

You taking $20 for sex in regards to a person who you related to on a non-business only level is not anywhere near equivalent as sexual favors purely for monetary gain.

[en-pointe off-balance]

xXGreenlylXx

en-pointe off-balance

xXGreenlylXx

I read a book on the history of prostitution and it was very interesting. I think it should be treated like any other career choice, I don't think the social stigma that so many associate with the sexual act is healthy and is a tool of repression. Regulatory standards are desperately needed to keep the industry safe. Legalization would make monitoring easier and allow health workers an opportunity to inform those involved as to how to be safe and healthy. It is my opinion that laws governing how a person enjoys their body are out dated. It is my opinion that this issue is just another distraction from other bigger issues, I am impatient with the lack of support for legalization. I would prefer if the activity was supervised to keep it safe and professional and that would eliminate the problems associated with the issue. I believe the criminalization allows for those very abuses to take place that we are trying to avoid and that decriminalization would solve them. It would be interesting if there was a study done to compare, but I don't know of any?

There is already so much crime and so many problems involved with prostitution, even in a place like Amsterdam where it has been legalized, that its doubtful that "decriminalization would solve them". Girls are drugged, abused, smuggled, kidnapped; pimps become felons and managers of a business of human trafficking, because no one would be a prostitute otherwise.

However if you mean that random co-eds should be allowed to request payment for ******** guys she meets at bars, then I don't genuinely have any opinion on that. That's not the discussion here. "How people enjoy their body"? Who becomes a prostitute in order to fully "enjoy" their body?

I honestly have no clue what would motivate a person to decide to trade sexual favors in exchange for money. Not my worry who, but all these things you mention are crimes, it seems the problem is with enforcement. Another issue completely. If the police and Goverment are corrupt prostitution is really not the issue and not a real representation of legalized prostitiution in my opinion.

I also disagree completely with it being a random act, if it is a profession it should be professionally done like any other industry with the same type of laws and regulation type of conditions. A person would have to be at 'work' to practice.

I suppose if you take away all the entangled issues and crimes, yes, prostitution could possibly not be a crime - but thats in a perfect, ideal world. I used the word "entangled" because it seems impossible, in my mind, to separate the ideas. Abused and trapped girls who become prostitutes are further abused and trapped, its circular logic. IF there were a world order in which prostitution was an exchange of services for money, like gardening or housecleaning service, that would be grand and in that case, by all means, legalize it with some precautions and regulations. The world ISN'T like that.

[Jaishirri]

en-pointe off-balance

Jaishirri

The drug dealing business is not a good example, because they are not legalized nor regulated industries. Yes, a license would prove that the pimp in question has a right to run his business. But he would have to run his business in a certain way, the way in which my local coffee shop is run for example. They could convict him for breaking policies and regulations tied to the licence that he willingly applied for.

I'm saying it could be regulated. An actual business. And not what it current is + being legal. We would have to change many things. But it is possible. We could give prostitutes a voice.

I cannot imagine that prostitution would survive as an industry, as it doesn't have a place in the cultured society we believe ourselves to be in. There's still a shame and stigma attached to going to a prostitute, and as long as thats true, customers will prefer that their 'suppliers' be less than official, less regulated, and with much less of a "paper trail". Drug dealing ISN'T a good example, as visiting prostitutes is arguably less addictive, giving patrons less incentive to risk anything to continue to buy.

I didn't bring up drug dealing... Sleepyhead did, and I said it's not a good example.

It does have a place in society. There's a shame and stigma attached to the porn industry and the nightclub industries and yet they survive quite well. Just because the industry itself is regulated doesn't mean the customers have to be regulated. I'm suggesting regulation of the owners of such establishments so that they can be held accountable for the way they treat they're employees. Customers can have all the discression they want.

[Jaishirri]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Jaishirri

Places like Germany are examples but we can make better on there systems. We could ensure, with the proper systems, that prostitures would no longer be strong-armed by pimps or organized crime rings. We could curtail underage prostitution.

Then give some kind of skeleton to this system; tell me how it works. The more detail the better; saying "we can do better!" isn't doing better.

Jaishirri

The drug dealing business is not a good example, because they are not legalized nor regulated industries.

Actually marijuana is still a problem in places where it is legal in regards to trafficking, further common drugs like alcohol and tobacco also have an illegal trade. The fact that we don't think about them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Quote:

Yes, a license would prove that the pimp in question has a right to run his business. But he would have to run his business in a certain way, the way in which my local coffee shop is run for example. They could convict him for breaking policies and regulations tied to the licence that he willingly applied for.

You have to prove that he's breaking these policies. The entire problem with your optimism is that it has no substance! You can put 1,001 laws on the books about this, so what? If you can't prove his activities to be illicit you won't get anywhere! The reason why I speak relatively harshly is because there are ways to get people to do things they do not want to without actually applying what appears to be illegal force. You do not need blackmail and whatnot; coercion can even run down to "you won't have a job and society doesn't accept your lot", something is still relatively true ( thus why prostitutes often try to keep their prostitution secret ) in most societies, even those with the standard legalization in place.

Quote:

I'm saying it could be regulated. An actual business. And not what it current is + being legal. We would have to change many things. But it is possible. We could give prostitutes a voice.

Empty hopes!

If I asked you "how?" what would your answer be? It's been four posts and all I've heard is "Well, we could!"... So? I'm happy it can happen in fairy-tale land, and I'll move there next summer of course, but in this reality you've not shown any particular system that works. It's all quick and made up, not considering the complications that run with your own suggestions.

Business studies are is not my forte... I'll draft something for you after my labs tomorrow.

As for marijuana, alcohol and tobacco, yes there are illegal markets, however we have people to hunt them and shut them down. So they'll start back up again. Nothing is 100% final.

Are you suggesting that because we don't currently have a better system, we shouldn't even bother attempting to better the lives of prostitues? That's quite depressing.

[CoffeeSip]

en-pointe off-balance

xXGreenlylXx

en-pointe off-balance

xXGreenlylXx

I read a book on the history of prostitution and it was very interesting. I think it should be treated like any other career choice, I don't think the social stigma that so many associate with the sexual act is healthy and is a tool of repression. Regulatory standards are desperately needed to keep the industry safe. Legalization would make monitoring easier and allow health workers an opportunity to inform those involved as to how to be safe and healthy. It is my opinion that laws governing how a person enjoys their body are out dated. It is my opinion that this issue is just another distraction from other bigger issues, I am impatient with the lack of support for legalization. I would prefer if the activity was supervised to keep it safe and professional and that would eliminate the problems associated with the issue. I believe the criminalization allows for those very abuses to take place that we are trying to avoid and that decriminalization would solve them. It would be interesting if there was a study done to compare, but I don't know of any?

There is already so much crime and so many problems involved with prostitution, even in a place like Amsterdam where it has been legalized, that its doubtful that "decriminalization would solve them". Girls are drugged, abused, smuggled, kidnapped; pimps become felons and managers of a business of human trafficking, because no one would be a prostitute otherwise.

However if you mean that random co-eds should be allowed to request payment for ******** guys she meets at bars, then I don't genuinely have any opinion on that. That's not the discussion here. "How people enjoy their body"? Who becomes a prostitute in order to fully "enjoy" their body?

I honestly have no clue what would motivate a person to decide to trade sexual favors in exchange for money. Not my worry who, but all these things you mention are crimes, it seems the problem is with enforcement. Another issue completely. If the police and Goverment are corrupt prostitution is really not the issue and not a real representation of legalized prostitiution in my opinion.

I also disagree completely with it being a random act, if it is a profession it should be professionally done like any other industry with the same type of laws and regulation type of conditions. A person would have to be at 'work' to practice.

I suppose if you take away all the entangled issues and crimes, yes, prostitution could possibly not be a crime - but thats in a perfect, ideal world. I used the word "entangled" because it seems impossible, in my mind, to separate the ideas. Abused and trapped girls who become prostitutes are further abused and trapped, its circular logic. IF there were a world order in which prostitution was an exchange of services for money, like gardening or housecleaning service, that would be grand and in that case, by all means, legalize it with some precautions and regulations. The world ISN'T like that.

I want it to be sad But certainly acknowledging that prostitution is not the culprit of these issues but the lack of enforcing laws that we already have in place leaves me wondering again why is prostitution illegal?

[Varkatzas]

The kind of sad weirdos that frequent prostitutes will probably do so legally or not.

Also: are there really women who would be prostitutes if it was legal? Like that's the only thing keeping them off that street? Doubt it.

[Pyroxene]

I feel that prostitution should indeed, be legal. If a woman wants to sell her body and a man is willing to pay, everything is consentual ... what's the problem? People who look for prostitutes aren't going to change because of law, most likely.

I believe a person has every right over their own body and if they grant somebody else temporary access to their body or sell themselves in a sexual fashion, it is their right to do so. Illegal prostitution is similar to saying you don't have full rights to do with your body as you please. (as long as it doesn't violate anybody else's rights)

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Pyroxene

I feel that prostitution should indeed, be legal. If a woman wants to sell her body and a man is willing to pay, everything is consentual ... what's the problem? People who look for prostitutes aren't going to change because of law, most likely.

I believe a person has every right over their own body and if they grant somebody else temporary access to their body or sell themselves in a sexual fashion, it is their right to do so. Illegal prostitution is similar to saying you don't have full rights to do with your body as you please. (as long as it doesn't violate anybody else's rights)

Some agreements are simply too unscrupulous to permit. Some agreements are of such a bizarre nature and so adverse to the human good that, even when someone is consenting to a particular arrangement, no one may be thought to be acting reasonably. They then ought not be allowed to execute the arrangement, ignoring the fact that they agreed and might have done so without being insane. An example might be someone agreeing to let me cook them alive. It is so outrageous that we all rightly so question this person and, even if he says he is sane, we do not agree and rightly stop the arrangement.

I am not saying that prostitution is one, but only to say that the act of mere consent is not always sufficient to dismiss concerns.

[Pyroxene]

Riviera de la Mancha

Pyroxene

I feel that prostitution should indeed, be legal. If a woman wants to sell her body and a man is willing to pay, everything is consentual ... what's the problem? People who look for prostitutes aren't going to change because of law, most likely.

I believe a person has every right over their own body and if they grant somebody else temporary access to their body or sell themselves in a sexual fashion, it is their right to do so. Illegal prostitution is similar to saying you don't have full rights to do with your body as you please. (as long as it doesn't violate anybody else's rights)

Some agreements are simply too unscrupulous to permit. Some agreements are of such a bizarre nature and so adverse to the human good that, even when someone is consenting to a particular arrangement, no one may be thought to be acting reasonably. They then ought not be allowed to execute the arrangement, ignoring the fact that they agreed and might have done so without being insane. An example might be someone agreeing to let me cook them alive. It is so outrageous that we all rightly so question this person and, even if he says he is sane, we do not agree and rightly stop the arrangement.

I am not saying that prostitution is one, but only to say that the act of mere consent is not always sufficient to dismiss concerns.

Unless the person can be legally declared insane and too incompetent to make rational decisions, it doesn't matter. The odds of an insane person who is out trying to sell themselves on the street is probably pretty rare. It takes a certain degree of logic to sell yourself and seriously WANT to sell yourself.

That, and cooking a person alive and prostitution are in NO way relevant to one another. False analogy.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Pyroxene

Riviera de la Mancha

Pyroxene

I feel that prostitution should indeed, be legal. If a woman wants to sell her body and a man is willing to pay, everything is consentual ... what's the problem? People who look for prostitutes aren't going to change because of law, most likely.

I believe a person has every right over their own body and if they grant somebody else temporary access to their body or sell themselves in a sexual fashion, it is their right to do so. Illegal prostitution is similar to saying you don't have full rights to do with your body as you please. (as long as it doesn't violate anybody else's rights)

Some agreements are simply too unscrupulous to permit. Some agreements are of such a bizarre nature and so adverse to the human good that, even when someone is consenting to a particular arrangement, no one may be thought to be acting reasonably. They then ought not be allowed to execute the arrangement, ignoring the fact that they agreed and might have done so without being insane. An example might be someone agreeing to let me cook them alive. It is so outrageous that we all rightly so question this person and, even if he says he is sane, we do not agree and rightly stop the arrangement.

I am not saying that prostitution is one, but only to say that the act of mere consent is not always sufficient to dismiss concerns.

Unless the person can be legally declared insane and too incompetent to make rational decisions, it doesn't matter. The odds of an insane person who is out trying to sell themselves on the street is probably pretty rare. It takes a certain degree of logic to sell yourself and seriously WANT to sell yourself.

That, and cooking a person alive and prostitution are in NO way relevant to one another. False analogy.

First, it very much does matter from a legal perspective. The function of law, one may argue, is to secure for all individuals the coordination necessary to pursue the human good, as Finnis details. As such, some arrangements, those that act contrary to this, will naturally be impermissible. One may argue that prostitution is one such arrangement. Again, I am talking about the structure of your argument and a point you may need to consider.

Also, analogies dont need to be carbon copies of events. That is the point of an analogy.