[ Poll ] Legalizing prostitution (mature only please)

Are you for or against prostitution

For		49.7%	[ 79 ]
Against		20.8%	[ 33 ]
Neutral		27.0%	[ 43 ]
undiciede		2.5%	[ 4 ]

Total Votes: 159

[Kyoki Kitsune]

Prostitution could be a great thing if it were controlled. Tests done on prostitutes and on customers, waivers signed before sessions, specifications, licensing, etc.

If it were in a controlled environment, it could do some good.

[Osamas Informer]

Grungekitty

Osamas Informer

Grungekitty

See: Sex trafficking: inside the business of modern slavery
By Siddharth Kara

25% is a bullshit precentage, its pulled out of the air there for its a nice round precentage.

If you want to convince people, it would be good if you produced a verifiable fact or two - pulling out internet anecdotes doesn't convince me.

As Pope Alessandro Borgia said to me on coffee break: 'On the internet, people can't see if you're a 16 year old blonde or a four hundred year old head of the Catholic church. But they can still tell if you're a wise guy or an idiot.'

hold up so you can state 25% and i can't because its an internet anecdotes.
its my goddamn city, i walk around there i'm the eyes and ears.
and 25% forced females in amsterdam is pure bullshit its way too controlled and watched over too have 25% forced girls.
so were's the fact on the 25%, it simply isn't there because even if 80% is forced maybe 1% will admit it too a researcher.


so what if i'm an 16 year old blond, at least i'm above the level too belief in a guy in the sky

[Grungekitty]

Kyoki Kitsune

Prostitution could be a great thing if it were controlled. Tests done on prostitutes and on customers, waivers signed before sessions, specifications, licensing, etc.

If it were in a controlled environment, it could do some good.

See the previous pages of this thread and the example of Amsterdam.

Amsterdam is as good as it gets and it's still horrible and unacceptable.

Why not legalise bank robbery?
If you had to get a permit, pass a shooting test and show that you weren't going to panic and gun down hostages while people were still negotiating, well bank robberies would be tidier and more profitable.

But the core concept of bank robbery is ROBBERY.

And the core concept of prostitution is to perform a sex act upon the body of somebody who doesn't WANT to do it.

Now, you could say that similarly, getting served by a waiter is inducing somebody to serve you food when they have no natural inclination to serve you. But somehow, though the catering trade is low skilled and low paid, we find that waiters don't have pimps and there is no specialist market in under age silver service waiters with no experience.

Clearly, there is something different about the sex trade - and maybe things are different among the Martians or the tribes of the Amazon basin. Maybe your concepts could be made valid in a society completely different from ours. But, the Amsterdam situation shows us that in Western 'civilisation', prostitution is inescapably linked with abuse of women.

[Grungekitty]

Osamas Informer

Grungekitty

Osamas Informer

Grungekitty

See: Sex trafficking: inside the business of modern slavery
By Siddharth Kara

25% is a bullshit precentage, its pulled out of the air there for its a nice round precentage.

If you want to convince people, it would be good if you produced a verifiable fact or two - pulling out internet anecdotes doesn't convince me.

As Pope Alessandro Borgia said to me on coffee break: 'On the internet, people can't see if you're a 16 year old blonde or a four hundred year old head of the Catholic church. But they can still tell if you're a wise guy or an idiot.'

hold up so you can state 25% and i can't because its an internet anecdotes.

Point missed. Open a browser window, go to google and paste in
Sex trafficking: inside the business of modern slavery. Now, read the summary of the book. See - that's research and facts.
Let's try again: let's google 'prostitution +trafficking'

I found this link:

http://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/pages/trafficking_prostitution.html

Lots of facts on my side. You've got your assertion.

[Kilickt]

Grungekitty

And the core concept of prostitution is to perform a sex act upon the body of somebody who doesn't WANT to do it.

That's more like forced prostitution + rape and abuse. Not someone who is willingly wanting to go into the trade - which should be perfectly acceptable.

[Grungekitty]

Kilickt

I don't particularly think it would become too much of a problem. If you're not allowed to potentially harm or actually harm someone, then all the acts that are harmful in prostitution would be abolished. Like trafficking. That's not to say it would stop of course.

In reality, if prostitution existed globally, it is possible that trafficking could be lessened to some extent anyways.

Optimism is good.

But prostitution DOES exist globally.
And there are already laws which say that you are not allowed to enslave, coerce, injure or kill anyone - there is no current exclusion clause saying that those laws don't apply to prostitutes.

My optimism consists of the belief that trafficking and abusing young women can be greatly reduced in the next generation by making it socially intolerable to buy a woman's body.

Yours seems to consist of hoping that it wouldn't be so bad if the police would just leave the pimps and other abusers alone.

[Grungekitty]

Kilickt

Grungekitty

And the core concept of prostitution is to perform a sex act upon the body of somebody who doesn't WANT to do it.

That's more like forced prostitution + rape and abuse. Not someone who is willingly wanting to go into the trade - which should be perfectly acceptable.

So, you're talking about this world where free-acting entrepreneurs sell sexual expertise when the market determines a good price for the product, and then turn to maybe selling time-share or double-glazing in the off season? It's a free choice, made by free-willed economic agents acting on their own perceived best interests?

But I'm talking about the real world where the vast majority of whores are heroin addicts. Where they don't get to keep the money - because their pimp / dealer takes it off them. Where most of them come from an abusive background and did not choose this 'career' from a range of pamphlets in the career advisor's office.

These are very different versions of what it is like to live as a prostitute. Mine is backed up by research, easily accessed through sites like the one below:

http://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/pages/trafficking_prostitution.html

Or try going along to your district court or even your local Accident and Emergency clinic.

[Kilickt]

Grungekitty

Kilickt

I don't particularly think it would become too much of a problem. If you're not allowed to potentially harm or actually harm someone, then all the acts that are harmful in prostitution would be abolished. Like trafficking. That's not to say it would stop of course.

In reality, if prostitution existed globally, it is possible that trafficking could be lessened to some extent anyways.

Optimism is good.

But prostitution DOES exist globally.
And there are already laws which say that you are not allowed to enslave, coerce, injure or kill anyone - there is no current exclusion clause saying that those laws don't apply to prostitutes.

My optimism consists of the belief that trafficking and abusing young women can be greatly reduced in the next generation by making it socially intolerable to buy a woman's body.

Yours seems to consist of hoping that it wouldn't be so bad if the police would just leave the pimps and other abusers alone.

I am aware that prostitution exists globally, You misunderstand. I meant if it were legalized globally, there could potentially be more options for prostitutes. Including rights.

Legalization of the trade should offer more protection to women who want to do it. And more to those who don't. It is my thought that the act should be viewed as honest and not immoral - that the women and men are respected - that you would be ******** willing men or women who want your money. Illegal prostitution and abuse is not my concern in this discussion - only that people should have the right to sell sexual acts.

Obviously, to be quite frank with you, I don't give a damn about what happens in the next generation of people. Especially not in this topic.

[DJ-Anarchy]

I'm, as a general rule, against treating human beings as property in any sense. ******** validating that with legalization.

[Paramedico]

Kilickt

Ideally, us living in a free nation and all, I believe that we should be able to do whatever we want to ourselves personally. Selling sexual acts to someone included, especially. Harming someone indefinitely is the only social taboo I see fit to follow, in order for society to get along.

Even if what we want to do to ourselves is drink and drug ourselves into an oblivion and then go driving down the freeway?

I'm not sure where I stand on legalizing prostitution. As an analogy, giving someone morphine because you know if you don't they'll go and score impure heroin off the streets and inject it with a dirty needle may be safer for them, but it's still feeding a potentially deadly activity with very serious risks.

[Kilickt]

Paramedico

Kilickt

Ideally, us living in a free nation and all, I believe that we should be able to do whatever we want to ourselves personally. Selling sexual acts to someone included, especially. Harming someone indefinitely is the only social taboo I see fit to follow, in order for society to get along.

Even if what we want to do to ourselves is drink and drug ourselves into an oblivion and then go driving down the freeway?

I'm not sure where I stand on legalizing prostitution. As an analogy, giving someone morphine because you know if you don't they'll go and score impure heroin off the streets and inject it with a dirty needle may be safer for them, but it's still feeding a potentially deadly activity with very serious risks.

The act of getting ******** up and then driving should be illegal - duh ;3 - because you would have the potential to kill someone if you were driving while ******** up. If you were to harm someone in a substantial way (Stealing, Raping, Murdering, etc etc), it should obviously be illegal so people don't do dangerous things to each other while they're enjoying their freedom. But you should be allowed to do demonized drugs in your own time if you want. or ******** someone and get money for it if you want. That's all i'm saying. ;D

[Paramedico]

Kilickt

Paramedico

Kilickt

Ideally, us living in a free nation and all, I believe that we should be able to do whatever we want to ourselves personally. Selling sexual acts to someone included, especially. Harming someone indefinitely is the only social taboo I see fit to follow, in order for society to get along.

Even if what we want to do to ourselves is drink and drug ourselves into an oblivion and then go driving down the freeway?

I'm not sure where I stand on legalizing prostitution. As an analogy, giving someone morphine because you know if you don't they'll go and score impure heroin off the streets and inject it with a dirty needle may be safer for them, but it's still feeding a potentially deadly activity with very serious risks.

The act of getting ******** up and then driving should be illegal - duh ;3 - because you would have the potential to kill someone if you were driving while ******** up. If you were to harm someone in any substantial way (Stealing, Raping, Murdering, etc etc), it should obviously be illegal so people don't do dangerous things to each other while they're enjoying their freedom. But you should be allowed to do demonized drugs in your own time if you want. or ******** someone and get money for it if you want. That's all i'm saying. ;D

Mm. But there's no way to regulate those drugs, or ensure that people aren't using them while operating motor vehicles. How could we regulate prostitution, to make sure nobody's being taken advantage or? How could we make sure they're being safe and getting tested? After all, many times they already don't use protection because "that's not what the client pays for".

[Grungekitty]

Kilickt

I am aware that prostitution exists globally, You misunderstand. I meant if it were legalized globally, there could potentially be more options for prostitutes. Including rights.

Legalization of the trade should offer more protection to women who want to do it. And more to those who don't.

I repeat that current legislation should protect prostitutes from coercion and violence. But it doesn't seem to keep the sleaze trade under sufficient control. A woman locked in a brothel can't go to the police. A woman at the mercy of a brutal man who has taken her passport and threatened her family can't go to the police.
I repeat - look at Amsterdam. Legalisation MAY add to the volume of the trade a caste of damaged women who collude with their abusers. But threats and trafficking and drug addiction are still used to fill the brothels. Legalisation makes it much harder to get anything done about that. Because the law now can't just arrest pimps for living off women - they have to get credible testimony in court from abused, scared, junkie teenagers - against the people who have spent months 'breaking' them to the 'trade'. The easiest bit of the crime to target is the sale of these abused girls. When you legalise that end-user transaction, you make it harder to prove any of the crimes behind it.

Kilickt

It is my thought that the act should be viewed as honest and not immoral - that the women and men are respected - that you would be ******** willing men or women who want your money. Illegal prostitution and abuse is not my concern in this discussion - only that people should have the right to sell sexual acts.

I suggest that you go found a utopian community somewhere and create a society very different from the one in which we live.
Because, in this society, prostitution is about using money as power - paying for the simulation of an intimate act. If all the punters were buying was friction to satisfy animal instinct, this could easily be provided by a vending machine.
Prostitution is about the abuse of young women. Maybe not in Imaginaria. But in the real world.
I'm not expounding an abstract philosophical position here - I'm talking about legislation in the real world, attempting to minimise a pathological behaviour - a form of violence against women.

Kilickt

Obviously, to be quite frank with you, I don't give a damn about what happens in the next generation of people. Especially not in this topic.

I assume then, that you think the above statement bolsters some sort of hedonistic argument?
And by extension of this 'argument', you don't give a monkey's curse about global warming.
That the spiralling national debt doesn't worry you much - and will worry you less as you age.
And perhaps, extrapolating from your statement, that you would hope to die with your credit cards all maxx'd out?

This is a digression, but I'll point out that saying you don't care about future effects of your actions will not encourage your credit providers to increase your cards' limits. And similarly, it won't encourage anyone to enter into an agreement with you, or to aid or support your causes. Because its a sociopathic statement.

[Kilickt]

Paramedico

Kilickt

Paramedico

Kilickt

Ideally, us living in a free nation and all, I believe that we should be able to do whatever we want to ourselves personally. Selling sexual acts to someone included, especially. Harming someone indefinitely is the only social taboo I see fit to follow, in order for society to get along.

Even if what we want to do to ourselves is drink and drug ourselves into an oblivion and then go driving down the freeway?

I'm not sure where I stand on legalizing prostitution. As an analogy, giving someone morphine because you know if you don't they'll go and score impure heroin off the streets and inject it with a dirty needle may be safer for them, but it's still feeding a potentially deadly activity with very serious risks.

The act of getting ******** up and then driving should be illegal - duh ;3 - because you would have the potential to kill someone if you were driving while ******** up. If you were to harm someone in any substantial way (Stealing, Raping, Murdering, etc etc), it should obviously be illegal so people don't do dangerous things to each other while they're enjoying their freedom. But you should be allowed to do demonized drugs in your own time if you want. or ******** someone and get money for it if you want. That's all i'm saying. ;D

Mm. But there's no way to regulate those drugs, or ensure that people aren't using them while operating motor vehicles. How could we regulate prostitution, to make sure nobody's being taken advantage or? How could we make sure they're being safe and getting tested? After all, many times they already don't use protection because "that's not what the client pays for".

It would have to be very controlled, really. I imagine if every drug was legal, you'd only be able to do it inside of your property (which is an easy law to break - but hey, if you get caught, it's your own fault). If prostitution was legal, maybe you'd only be allowed to do it in a controlled certified environment -- where you'd have to sign wavers and all that jazz. In fact, you could drop the degrading name "prostitute" and have a "companion" (Which are in the Firefly series). I don't mean to say that I'd have the acts of crack dealers coaxing people to steal plasma TVs and people abusing others for their bodies should be legal.