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Joe the Plumber

Great move for McCain. 0.13836477987421 13.8% [ 22 ]
Desperate move for McCain. 0.86163522012579 86.2% [ 137 ]
Total Votes:[ 159 ]
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Sequential's avatar
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I kill giants
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Meet Joe the Plumber

Yeah, it got a little old, but it's true. Pulmbers make a lot of money, and he's planning on buying his buisness.

Here's the exchange that started all the fuss


That guy has a very valid point. It is pretty uncalled for that some suit in Washington wants to decide for you that you make too much money and should be penalized for it, when every one else that's "poorer" than you gets off scott free.

So it's better that the RICHEST part of the country pays almost nothing so they keep getting richer while the burden falls on the shoulders of the middle class? ******** that. The upper class can start putting in their fair share. They ARE RICHER so therefore THEY SHOULD BE TAXED more as it is relative to their wealth. And who the ******** says the lower classes are getting "scott free"? When did anyone say we would stop being taxed? Our taxes wouldn't go up, which jesus, the middle class pays too much as it is. They SHOULDN'T go up. They should go up for the upper class which has been getting tax breaks for years.

People are taxed on a percentage basis. If I make 18,000 or 18,000,000,000 the percentage should be the same. A percentage of 18 million is alot more than 18 thousand btw. And if you own a business you are taxed in your business, the properties you own, the people you hire, the products you buy, the products you sell, imports and exports. So people that own business end up paying alot more taxes than you'd think. You shouldn't have so much class envy. Instead think of ways to rise up if you would rather be better than the middle class.
The idea came to me within an hour of the debate, but I didn't get a chance to finish it until now. I hope you enjoy! You can find a bigger version by clicking on the picture.
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Tenko72's avatar
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User ImageShocking...

I thought it was unnecessary for Joe the Plumber to be brought up as much as he had. From what I know, he hadn't even bought the plumbing company, yet. You can't tax what isn't there.

I know the point was about small businesses being taxed, but if the business makes $250k+, then it makes sense it'd be taxed more.

For all I know, when Joe did set up the business, he might make less than $250k or a heckuva a lot more, like, 1 million-ish.

...isn't it?User Image
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
What do you think of 'Joe the Plumber's' frequent mention in the debate last night?


I thought it was lulzy and desperate. McCain kept trying to use this guy to bolster himself, without acknowledging the fact that Joe would only be taxed by Obami if he's making over $250,000.


You do realize that 95% of the 2% of citizens citizens making over $250,000 are small business owners..


And small business is the corner stone of the economy.


And out of the folks that won't be taxed, 35% of them don't pay income taxes anyway....


So...


35% Just where are you getting your numbers, sir? Please cite a reliable source.

Regardless, small business owners will get more business if their consumers and clients can more easily afford their services. For example, if I get a tax-cut, I would go eat a restaurant or two. Buy a new pair of shoes from that local shoe store. (my old ones are falling apart) I'll go buy new paint, art pens and markers from the local art store. I could get a nice new haircut too. ETC. I could also buy a little more food and textbooks. I can barely feed myself right now, and I keep having to borrow books because I could not afford them all.

See, I'm one of those college grad students that is desperately trying to survive through costly tuition-- so that I can be an educated member of the generation that will take over running this country. You want this generation to survive through educating themselves, right? We're working hard here.

It bothers me when people think that money = degree of hard work. Just because somebody doesn't have a lot of money doesn't mean they don't work hard. Take nurses, teachers, counselors, social workers. These are professions that require a lot of hard work, and long hours (particularly nurses). You must be bright, caring, and hard-working. Nurses and teachers are essential to society's survival. And yet, they rarely make more than 40k a year.

Small businesses often don't make that much money. When they do-- WOW. What a success! Obviously, they're doing so well that a 3% tax won't effect them much. At the end of it, they'll still have more money than everybody else, so we can still call this a capitalist society.

"The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600...(and)...The average salary of a business owner in retail trade, for instance, is $169,500" ---Wall Street Journal


...You don't quite understand..

I'm not talking majorities or minorities.. I'm talking the 5 or so percent, I was wrong on the 2% I looked at Obama's speech 95% of Americans won't be taxed.

Out of the 5% that will be taxed, an overwhelming majority are small bussiness owners.

Out of the 95% that won't be taxed, 35% they are earning "refundable tax credits" I.E. Welfare.. Thus won't benefit at all.

And I got my information from:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm


I got all that. I do understand. But they are small business owners that are doing VERY well for themselves. Did you read anything I wrote above? About giving the next generation a chance to educate themselves? About hard working professionals that are paid very little? Giving consumers more to spend on small businesses-- to fix the economy? People keep trying to argue that with that extra 3%, business owners could hire extra people etc and help the economy that way. 3% isn't enough to pay an employee on unless they're up in the millions. It's that small a tax. Still, it irritates them because they want that money in pocket now--they don't want to wait for it to come back to them double when consumers can buy more.

And yet, the relief on 95% of America will be just enough to encourage everyone to spend a little bit more-- combating the recession much more than if the wealthy got extra benefits like McCain wants to do.
In the end, this tax will pay itself back, and then some, if the business has good products/and services. More people will spend more money on them.
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
What do you think of 'Joe the Plumber's' frequent mention in the debate last night?


I thought it was lulzy and desperate. McCain kept trying to use this guy to bolster himself, without acknowledging the fact that Joe would only be taxed by Obami if he's making over $250,000.


You do realize that 95% of the 2% of citizens citizens making over $250,000 are small business owners..


And small business is the corner stone of the economy.


And out of the folks that won't be taxed, 35% of them don't pay income taxes anyway....


So...


35% Just where are you getting your numbers, sir? Please cite a reliable source.

Regardless, small business owners will get more business if their consumers and clients can more easily afford their services. For example, if I get a tax-cut, I would go eat a restaurant or two. Buy a new pair of shoes from that local shoe store. (my old ones are falling apart) I'll go buy new paint, art pens and markers from the local art store. I could get a nice new haircut too. ETC. I could also buy a little more food and textbooks. I can barely feed myself right now, and I keep having to borrow books because I could not afford them all.

See, I'm one of those college grad students that is desperately trying to survive through costly tuition-- so that I can be an educated member of the generation that will take over running this country. You want this generation to survive through educating themselves, right? We're working hard here.

It bothers me when people think that money = degree of hard work. Just because somebody doesn't have a lot of money doesn't mean they don't work hard. Take nurses, teachers, counselors, social workers. These are professions that require a lot of hard work, and long hours (particularly nurses). You must be bright, caring, and hard-working. Nurses and teachers are essential to society's survival. And yet, they rarely make more than 40k a year.

Small businesses often don't make that much money. When they do-- WOW. What a success! Obviously, they're doing so well that a 3% tax won't effect them much. At the end of it, they'll still have more money than everybody else, so we can still call this a capitalist society.

"The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600...(and)...The average salary of a business owner in retail trade, for instance, is $169,500" ---Wall Street Journal


...You don't quite understand..

I'm not talking majorities or minorities.. I'm talking the 5 or so percent, I was wrong on the 2% I looked at Obama's speech 95% of Americans won't be taxed.

Out of the 5% that will be taxed, an overwhelming majority are small bussiness owners.

Out of the 95% that won't be taxed, 35% they are earning "refundable tax credits" I.E. Welfare.. Thus won't benefit at all.

And I got my information from:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm


I got all that. I do understand. But they are small business owners that are doing VERY well for themselves. Did you read anything I wrote above? About giving the next generation a chance to educate themselves? About hard working professionals that are paid very little? Giving consumers more to spend on small businesses-- to fix the economy? People keep trying to argue that with that extra 3%, business owners could hire extra people etc and help the economy that way. 3% isn't enough to pay an employee on unless they're up in the millions. It's that small a tax. Still, it irritates them because they want that money in pocket now--they don't want to wait for it to come back to them double when consumers can buy more.

And yet, the relief on 95% of America will be just enough to encourage everyone to spend a little bit more-- combating the recession much more than if the wealthy got extra benefits like McCain wants to do.
In the end, this tax will pay itself back, and then some, if the business has good products/and services. More people will spend more money on them.


As stated in the Tax Policy Center, McCain's tax actually doesn't benefit the wealthy, and while both candidates Tax policies have problems, Obama is the only candidate promising to inject more money in to the economy, with out raising taxes, which isn't possible.

Now what your doing is taking one or both the candidates at their words with out researching.

I recommend you do some reading.

EDIT: The relief on "95%" isn't accurate, as 35% wouldn't recieve benefits, and the other 40% would have their refunds re-taxed the next year to begin to pay for the programs Obama proposes.
Nillia
The idea came to me within an hour of the debate, but I didn't get a chance to finish it until now. I hope you enjoy! You can find a bigger version by clicking on the picture.
User Image


I request permission to use this in my rotating signature.
Turns out, Joe the Plumber actually is a plumber. As long as a certified plumber signs off on his work, he doesn't need to be licensed.
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
What do you think of 'Joe the Plumber's' frequent mention in the debate last night?


I thought it was lulzy and desperate. McCain kept trying to use this guy to bolster himself, without acknowledging the fact that Joe would only be taxed by Obami if he's making over $250,000.


You do realize that 95% of the 2% of citizens citizens making over $250,000 are small business owners..


And small business is the corner stone of the economy.


And out of the folks that won't be taxed, 35% of them don't pay income taxes anyway....


So...


35% Just where are you getting your numbers, sir? Please cite a reliable source.

Regardless, small business owners will get more business if their consumers and clients can more easily afford their services. For example, if I get a tax-cut, I would go eat a restaurant or two. Buy a new pair of shoes from that local shoe store. (my old ones are falling apart) I'll go buy new paint, art pens and markers from the local art store. I could get a nice new haircut too. ETC. I could also buy a little more food and textbooks. I can barely feed myself right now, and I keep having to borrow books because I could not afford them all.

See, I'm one of those college grad students that is desperately trying to survive through costly tuition-- so that I can be an educated member of the generation that will take over running this country. You want this generation to survive through educating themselves, right? We're working hard here.

It bothers me when people think that money = degree of hard work. Just because somebody doesn't have a lot of money doesn't mean they don't work hard. Take nurses, teachers, counselors, social workers. These are professions that require a lot of hard work, and long hours (particularly nurses). You must be bright, caring, and hard-working. Nurses and teachers are essential to society's survival. And yet, they rarely make more than 40k a year.

Small businesses often don't make that much money. When they do-- WOW. What a success! Obviously, they're doing so well that a 3% tax won't effect them much. At the end of it, they'll still have more money than everybody else, so we can still call this a capitalist society.

"The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600...(and)...The average salary of a business owner in retail trade, for instance, is $169,500" ---Wall Street Journal


...You don't quite understand..

I'm not talking majorities or minorities.. I'm talking the 5 or so percent, I was wrong on the 2% I looked at Obama's speech 95% of Americans won't be taxed.

Out of the 5% that will be taxed, an overwhelming majority are small bussiness owners.

Out of the 95% that won't be taxed, 35% they are earning "refundable tax credits" I.E. Welfare.. Thus won't benefit at all.

And I got my information from:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm


I got all that. I do understand. But they are small business owners that are doing VERY well for themselves. Did you read anything I wrote above? About giving the next generation a chance to educate themselves? About hard working professionals that are paid very little? Giving consumers more to spend on small businesses-- to fix the economy? People keep trying to argue that with that extra 3%, business owners could hire extra people etc and help the economy that way. 3% isn't enough to pay an employee on unless they're up in the millions. It's that small a tax. Still, it irritates them because they want that money in pocket now--they don't want to wait for it to come back to them double when consumers can buy more.

And yet, the relief on 95% of America will be just enough to encourage everyone to spend a little bit more-- combating the recession much more than if the wealthy got extra benefits like McCain wants to do.
In the end, this tax will pay itself back, and then some, if the business has good products/and services. More people will spend more money on them.


As stated in the Tax Policy Center, McCain's tax actually doesn't benefit the wealthy, and while both candidates Tax policies have problems, Obama is the only candidate promising to inject more money in to the economy, with out raising taxes, which isn't possible.

Now what your doing is taking one or both the candidates at their words with out researching.

I recommend you do some reading.

EDIT: The relief on "95%" isn't accurate, as 35% wouldn't recieve benefits, and the other 40% would have their refunds re-taxed the next year to begin to pay for the programs Obama proposes.


You send me to a source I've already looked at. It says the opposite of what you claim it does.


CNN Money, taking data directly from the Tax Policy Center

"BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567
Source:The Tax Policy Center"

If you take out a calculator and work with the lowest figure in each income range to the greatest tax rebate (I do it that way to make sure it's the best possible rate McCain's plan could give), you will find than with McCain's plan:
A person that is making 2.9 million and receiving 269k will get back 9.2% of their income.
A person making 603k and receiving $45,361 will get back 7,5% of their income.
A person making 161K and receiving $4,380 will get back 2.7% of their income.
A person making 112K and receiving $2,614 will get back 2.3% of their income.
A person that is making 66k and receiving $1,009 will get back 1.5% of their income.
A person making an 38k and receiving $319 will get back 0.8% of their income.
A person that is making 19k will get back 0.6% of their income.

The more money you make, the larger percent McCain wants to give you. It's all in the math, and math cannot lie. McCain wants to tax the little guys more than the big guys.


...Which is why he didn't talk about his own tax plan at all in the debate. He only said, "I'm cutting taxes for everybody!" He doesn't want middle America (95% of the nation) to realize that they'd get a much bigger break with Obama--- or that McCain was heaviy favoring the obscenely wealthy.

Obama will get a lot of the funding for the tax breaks from the taxes he places on those that can afford it. Besides, even you said 35&#xof; the nation won't even need the benefits! That'll make it easier to give the benefits as well. After taxes, Mr. 2.9 million will still have 2.2 million to swim in as he pleases. The rest of us will get a tax break that will help us through college, etc.

A person would have to be making around 100k a year to get more tax relief from McCain than Obama-- Only 5.63 of the nation makes more than 100k a year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr
Nillia


35% Just where are you getting your numbers, sir? Please cite a reliable source.

Regardless, small business owners will get more business if their consumers and clients can more easily afford their services. For example, if I get a tax-cut, I would go eat a restaurant or two. Buy a new pair of shoes from that local shoe store. (my old ones are falling apart) I'll go buy new paint, art pens and markers from the local art store. I could get a nice new haircut too. ETC. I could also buy a little more food and textbooks. I can barely feed myself right now, and I keep having to borrow books because I could not afford them all.

See, I'm one of those college grad students that is desperately trying to survive through costly tuition-- so that I can be an educated member of the generation that will take over running this country. You want this generation to survive through educating themselves, right? We're working hard here.

It bothers me when people think that money = degree of hard work. Just because somebody doesn't have a lot of money doesn't mean they don't work hard. Take nurses, teachers, counselors, social workers. These are professions that require a lot of hard work, and long hours (particularly nurses). You must be bright, caring, and hard-working. Nurses and teachers are essential to society's survival. And yet, they rarely make more than 40k a year.

Small businesses often don't make that much money. When they do-- WOW. What a success! Obviously, they're doing so well that a 3% tax won't effect them much. At the end of it, they'll still have more money than everybody else, so we can still call this a capitalist society.

"The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600...(and)...The average salary of a business owner in retail trade, for instance, is $169,500" ---Wall Street Journal


...You don't quite understand..

I'm not talking majorities or minorities.. I'm talking the 5 or so percent, I was wrong on the 2% I looked at Obama's speech 95% of Americans won't be taxed.

Out of the 5% that will be taxed, an overwhelming majority are small bussiness owners.

Out of the 95% that won't be taxed, 35% they are earning "refundable tax credits" I.E. Welfare.. Thus won't benefit at all.

And I got my information from:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm


I got all that. I do understand. But they are small business owners that are doing VERY well for themselves. Did you read anything I wrote above? About giving the next generation a chance to educate themselves? About hard working professionals that are paid very little? Giving consumers more to spend on small businesses-- to fix the economy? People keep trying to argue that with that extra 3%, business owners could hire extra people etc and help the economy that way. 3% isn't enough to pay an employee on unless they're up in the millions. It's that small a tax. Still, it irritates them because they want that money in pocket now--they don't want to wait for it to come back to them double when consumers can buy more.

And yet, the relief on 95% of America will be just enough to encourage everyone to spend a little bit more-- combating the recession much more than if the wealthy got extra benefits like McCain wants to do.
In the end, this tax will pay itself back, and then some, if the business has good products/and services. More people will spend more money on them.


As stated in the Tax Policy Center, McCain's tax actually doesn't benefit the wealthy, and while both candidates Tax policies have problems, Obama is the only candidate promising to inject more money in to the economy, with out raising taxes, which isn't possible.

Now what your doing is taking one or both the candidates at their words with out researching.

I recommend you do some reading.

EDIT: The relief on "95%" isn't accurate, as 35% wouldn't recieve benefits, and the other 40% would have their refunds re-taxed the next year to begin to pay for the programs Obama proposes.


You send me to a source I've already looked at. It says the opposite of what you claim it does.


CNN Money, taking data directly from the Tax Policy Center

"BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567
Source:The Tax Policy Center"

If you take out a calculator and work with the lowest figure in each income range to the greatest tax rebate (I do it that way to make sure it's the best possible rate McCain's plan could give), you will find than with McCain's plan:
A person that is making 2.9 million and receiving 269k will get back 9.2% of their income.
A person making 603k and receiving $45,361 will get back 7,5% of their income.
A person making 161K and receiving $4,380 will get back 2.7% of their income.
A person making 112K and receiving $2,614 will get back 2.3% of their income.
A person that is making 66k and receiving $1,009 will get back 1.5% of their income.
A person making an 38k and receiving $319 will get back 0.8% of their income.
A person that is making 19k will get back 0.6% of their income.

The more money you make, the larger percent McCain wants to give you. It's all in the math, and math cannot lie. McCain wants to tax the little guys more than the big guys.


...Which is why he didn't talk about his own tax plan at all in the debate. He only said, "I'm cutting taxes for everybody!" He doesn't want middle America (95% of the nation) to realize that they'd get a much bigger break with Obama--- or that McCain was heaviy favoring the obscenely wealthy.

Obama will get a lot of the funding for the tax breaks from the taxes he places on those that can afford it. Besides, even you said 35&#xof; the nation won't even need the benefits! That'll make it easier to give the benefits as well. After taxes, Mr. 2.9 million will still have 2.2 million to swim in as he pleases. The rest of us will get a tax break that will help us through college, etc.

A person would have to be making around 100k a year to get more tax relief from McCain than Obama-- Only 5.63 of the nation makes more than 100k a year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States


No. McCain's bills support businesses. Big and Small... For this reason Our Business Taxes are the second highest in the world.... Something we don't need if we want more jobs, more business, and to keep companies from moving overseas.

Obama's plan?

Alienate the people who move the money.


But I digress.. Both tax plans suck, we need the Fair Tax and we needs it now.
Laharl OutPhase
Nillia
The idea came to me within an hour of the debate, but I didn't get a chance to finish it until now. I hope you enjoy! You can find a bigger version by clicking on the picture.
*Insert picture here*


I request permission to use this in my rotating signature.


=D Glad you like it.
Sure, but lemme fix it up first. I decided the BG is too dark and I need to make a version that's a good size for siggies. Please credit me as well, and preferably link-back if you can.
George Kapland Jr


No. McCain's bills support businesses. Big and Small... For this reason Our Business Taxes are the second highest in the world.... Something we don't need if we want more jobs, more business, and to keep companies from moving overseas.

Obama's plan?

Alienate the people who move the money.


But I digress.. Both tax plans suck, we need the Fair Tax and we needs it now.


That's actually a fairly valid point, but it goes both ways. People will spend more if they can afford it.

Tuition is brutal, and my generation struggles to get through school. Most of us have to work and do school at the same time AND take out 40000+ in student loans. Every little bit helps as we work towards our, and this country's future. I wanna stop borrowing textbooks. ;0;

Even though you're right about them both having flaws...both too extreme...I have to pick the one that helps my generation more.
Nillia
George Kapland Jr


No. McCain's bills support businesses. Big and Small... For this reason Our Business Taxes are the second highest in the world.... Something we don't need if we want more jobs, more business, and to keep companies from moving overseas.

Obama's plan?

Alienate the people who move the money.


But I digress.. Both tax plans suck, we need the Fair Tax and we needs it now.


That's actually a fairly valid point, but it goes both ways. People will spend more if they can afford it.

Tuition is brutal, and my generation struggles to get through school. Most of us have to work and do school at the same time AND take out 40000+ in student loans. Every little bit helps as we work towards our, and this country's future. I wanna stop borrowing textbooks. ;0;

Even though you're right about them both having flaws...both too extreme...I have to pick the one that helps my generation more.


That's the problem, your looking in the short term.

If we lower business taxes more jobs are created thus interjecting the economy with money.

The other way is a short term fix, that ultimately drives business away.
We should get Colbert as a write in on the ballot! He will set this country right!
George Kapland Jr
Nillia
George Kapland Jr


No. McCain's bills support businesses. Big and Small... For this reason Our Business Taxes are the second highest in the world.... Something we don't need if we want more jobs, more business, and to keep companies from moving overseas.

Obama's plan?

Alienate the people who move the money.


But I digress.. Both tax plans suck, we need the Fair Tax and we needs it now.


That's actually a fairly valid point, but it goes both ways. People will spend more if they can afford it.

Tuition is brutal, and my generation struggles to get through school. Most of us have to work and do school at the same time AND take out 40000+ in student loans. Every little bit helps as we work towards our, and this country's future. I wanna stop borrowing textbooks. ;0;

Even though you're right about them both having flaws...both too extreme...I have to pick the one that helps my generation more.


That's the problem, your looking in the short term.

If we lower business taxes more jobs are created thus interjecting the economy with money.

The other way is a short term fix, that ultimately drives business away.


I think it should stay this way to an extent even after I'm all settled in my 40s. There's always a new generation coming and struggling. They'll end up running this place after me. When I'm old and tired. When I'm dead. I'm looking ahead at future generations as well.

Right now, we need more than usual to get consumers buying again. Once we pull out of the recession, I would like the percentages to even out a little more between the different classes. But I will NEVER think that big business should get more perks than the new generation, leaving them to struggle and/or perhaps fail to get full educations.

I have read that there are lots of fine-print loopholes, allowances, etc that businesses can utilize to minimize their taxes as well...evening things out in their favor. Little guys are little-- they can't afford fancy accountants, and they are simple employees so they can't find as many loopholes.

Things usually end up balancing in the end. We go back and forth from Republican to Democrat in attempts to maintain an overall balance over the years.
Gidydude
We should get Colbert as a write in on the ballot! He will set this country right!


Eheh...Sorry. That was funny the first 5 times. Now that we're at 749, it's getting a little old.

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