JOE the PLUMBER

Joe the Plumber

Great move for McCain.	13.8%	[ 22 ]
Desperate move for McCain.	86.2%	[ 137 ]
Total Votes:			[ 159 ]

[BlueCollarJoe]

I kill giants

kitteacakes

Veggie Sushi

Meet Joe the Plumber

Yeah, it got a little old, but it's true. Pulmbers make a lot of money, and he's planning on buying his buisness.

Here's the exchange that started all the fuss

That guy has a very valid point. It is pretty uncalled for that some suit in Washington wants to decide for you that you make too much money and should be penalized for it, when every one else that's "poorer" than you gets off scott free.

So it's better that the RICHEST part of the country pays almost nothing so they keep getting richer while the burden falls on the shoulders of the middle class? ******** that. The upper class can start putting in their fair share. They ARE RICHER so therefore THEY SHOULD BE TAXED more as it is relative to their wealth. And who the ******** says the lower classes are getting "scott free"? When did anyone say we would stop being taxed? Our taxes wouldn't go up, which jesus, the middle class pays too much as it is. They SHOULDN'T go up. They should go up for the upper class which has been getting tax breaks for years.

You might want to find out some basic facts before you go spouting off drivel that is a blatant lie next time, okay?

1% of the population has 18% of the wealth, yet pays 39.89% of the tax, the top 50% of the population pays 97% of the tax. The bottom 50% pays less than 3% of the tax.
Care to try again?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sburns/stories/DN-burns_04bus.ART.State.Edition1.4603045.html


http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Lets see how your math is. You make 10k a year. You get a tax cut. The government sends you a check for $100.00

Frank makes 1 million a year. The government gives him a tax cut. He gets back a check for $10,000.

You pay your taxes on your 10,000. You pay $1,600.

Frank pays his taxes on his $1,000,000. He pays $390,000.

You both got your checks. How much did you pay in taxes percent?
How much did Frank pay?
How much of a rebate did you get?
How much of a rebate did Frank get?

Here's the hardest one. Percentage wise, who's getting screwed?

[Tactical Leg Sweep]

kitteacakes

I kill giants

Nonesuch Solo

I kill giants

kitteacakes

Veggie Sushi

Meet Joe the Plumber

Yeah, it got a little old, but it's true. Pulmbers make a lot of money, and he's planning on buying his buisness.

Here's the exchange that started all the fuss

That guy has a very valid point. It is pretty uncalled for that some suit in Washington wants to decide for you that you make too much money and should be penalized for it, when every one else that's "poorer" than you gets off scott free.

So it's better that the RICHEST part of the country pays almost nothing so they keep getting richer while the burden falls on the shoulders of the middle class? f**k that. The upper class can start putting in their fair share. They ARE RICHER so therefore THEY SHOULD BE TAXED more as it is relative to their wealth.

THEY earned the money. Why should they be forced to spend it on people who don't work as hard? That's the thought of capitalism. Even low-income people grumble about being taxed to help support someone living off welfare, or government disability checks. My future sister-in-law gets free money every month, all she has to do is occasionally try to kill herself because her family doesn't give her any additional free money and it'll be obvious she's still mentally ill and needs free government money! Sometimes, you pay money to support folks who give absolutely nothing back to society.

What a ******** mentality. "People who don't work as hard". Yeah, all those firefighters and police officers and paramedics and teachers and construction workers and nurses. They clearly don't work hard.

And I EARNED my money too. And I probably ******** worked harder for it than some CEO sitting on his a** in an office. So WHY SHOULD I have to bare the burden of the country's taxes? So that same assholes can keep getting richer? I'm paying for their mistresses and 8 balls and Cadillac because THEY'RE getting tax breaks and I'm picking up the ******** slack.

The upper class should pay more because it is relative to their wealth. That is basic math. f**k trickle down bullshit.

The many corporate scandals are proof enough that CEOs don't work hard...

Yeah, and John McCain is no stranger to scandals. Keating? Huh? Oh, sorry. Not supposed to talk about that. He's a war veteran. Respect him. Nevermind the fact the he's voted to ******** over pretty much all the soldiers who are fighting for no ******** reason. And somehow because he was a shitty pilot I should keep my mouth shut about the fact that he's a greedy old ********]

[Nonesuch Solo]

I kill giants

Nonesuch Solo

I kill giants

kitteacakes

Veggie Sushi

Meet Joe the Plumber

Yeah, it got a little old, but it's true. Pulmbers make a lot of money, and he's planning on buying his buisness.

Here's the exchange that started all the fuss

That guy has a very valid point. It is pretty uncalled for that some suit in Washington wants to decide for you that you make too much money and should be penalized for it, when every one else that's "poorer" than you gets off scott free.

So it's better that the RICHEST part of the country pays almost nothing so they keep getting richer while the burden falls on the shoulders of the middle class? ******** that. The upper class can start putting in their fair share. They ARE RICHER so therefore THEY SHOULD BE TAXED more as it is relative to their wealth.

THEY earned the money. Why should they be forced to spend it on people who don't work as hard? That's the thought of capitalism. Even low-income people grumble about being taxed to help support someone living off welfare, or government disability checks. My future sister-in-law gets free money every month, all she has to do is occasionally try to kill herself because her family doesn't give her any additional free money and it'll be obvious she's still mentally ill and needs free government money! Sometimes, you pay money to support folks who give absolutely nothing back to society.

What a ******** mentality. "People who don't work as hard". Yeah, all those firefighters and police officers and paramedics and teachers and construction workers and nurses. They clearly don't work hard.

And I EARNED my money too. And I probably ******** worked harder for it than some CEO sitting on his a** in an office. So WHY SHOULD I have to bare the burden of the country's taxes? So that same assholes can keep getting richer? I'm paying for their mistresses and 8 balls and Cadillac because THEY'RE getting tax breaks and I'm picking up the ******** slack.

The upper class should pay more because it is relative to their wealth. That is basic math. ******** trickle down bullshit.

You miss my ******** point.

What scale is there to measure who "works hard?" My third-grade teacher "worked hard" by calling us names and handing us fill-in-the-blank work and telling my parents "these kids are below average to average and that's all they'll ever be." My fourth-grade teacher "worked hard" by engaging students, staying after school if kids had questions, etc. So how, exactly, should we judge which of them works harder and which of them deserves to earn more money? Presumably, people don't go into teaching to make money, they go into teaching because they hope they'll make a difference.

There are "rich" people out there who spend their lives developing prosthetic heart valves or figuring out how to measure the thickness of clouds by shooting lasers down out of airplanes or genetically engineering crops so that empoverished countries can have more food output per acre. Who's to say that a short-order cook is working harder than any of them? Who's got any right to judge whether they "earned" a fancier car or whether they're just coasting off your ever-so-impressive contribution to society?

As far as other higher-ups go, those people do jobs I'd never want. They call the shots. They're the risk-takers. They make sure they have the right people doing the "real work" so that the jobs get done efficiently and the company turns a profit. They may be doing desk jobs, doing thought work instead of actually making a product, but I'd never want that sort of stress.


YOUR point seems to be that people who are richer don't deserve all that money they were paid because they're getting paid more than you are and HOW DARE THEY. They're the ones who need to take social responsibility because by god they're the ones who worked to get to the top, they're the ones who have made successful products or were innovators in their field, and they need to help out some waitress who's just doing what they're told and only making minimum wage for it. How dare they get paid more than you, really.


I can't wait 'til I finish my degree and start making more money than you so I can OWE it to the poor people who didn't work as hard and are less educated than me! Hurray.

[Nonesuch Solo]

I kill ******** your trickle down bullshit. Sure has WORKED GREAT FOR US the last eight years too! Oh wait, unemployment has been crazy. See, trickle down is bullshit because the wealthy do what with their money? They ******** hoarde it. They're frugal. They CUT jobs to watch their paychecks get fatter.[/

ft7m2zb2:0="I kill ******** your trickle down bullshit. Sure has WORKED GREAT FOR US the last eight years too! Oh wait, unemployment has been crazy. See, trickle down is bullshit because the wealthy do what with their money? They ******** hoarde it. They're frugal. They CUT jobs to watch their paychecks get fatter.[/size]

Wait what? What?

Wealthy people don't spend their money?

They don't buy yachts which employ hundreds of people in the summers?

They don't have many cars which require maintenance?

They don't want construction workers landscapers to make their homes prettier?

They don't get expensive clothes?

They don't like plasma-screen TVs?

They don't enjoy golfing?

They don't throw parties and hire caterers and buy food and hire entertainment?


They just...they do what I do, spend maybe a thousand a month on bills, necessities, maybe a couple movies, and just...stick all that extra money in a giant bank account somewhere and keep it?


WHAT? Are you crazy?

[Tactical Leg Sweep]

BlueCollarJoe

I kill giants

kitteacakes

Veggie Sushi

Meet Joe the Plumber

Yeah, it got a little old, but it's true. Pulmbers make a lot of money, and he's planning on buying his buisness.

Quote:

You might want to find out some basic facts before you go spouting off drivel that is a blatant lie next time, okay?

1% of the population has 18% of the wealth, yet pays 39.89% of the tax, the top 50% of the population pays 97% of the tax. The bottom 50% pays less than 3% of the tax.
Care to try again?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sburns/stories/DN-burns_04bus.ART.State.Edition1.4603045.html


http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Lets see how your math is. You make 10k a year. You get a tax cut. The government sends you a check for $100.00

Frank makes 1 million a year. The government gives him a tax cut. He gets back a check for $10,000.

You pay your taxes on your 10,000. You pay $1,600.

Frank pays his taxes on his $1,000,000. He pays $390,000.http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/compose/entry/new/44292525/?quote=16

You both got your checks. How much did you pay in taxes percent?
How much did Frank pay?
How much of a rebate did you get?
How much of a rebate did Frank get?

Here's the hardest one. Percentage wise, who's getting screwed?

I know you're pretty much used to people bowing down and not saying anything back when you start spouting off your bullshit. Sorry, I'm not one of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

Wanna try again?

Oh and if you want to provide links which are blatantly right leaning to back up your s**t, you won't mind if I post this.

http://www.bear-left.com/original/2003/0522welfare.html

[pixelcaster]

Nonesuch Solo

I kill giants

f**k your trickle down bullshit. Sure has WORKED GREAT FOR US the last eight years too! Oh wait, unemployment has been crazy. See, trickle down is bullshit because the wealthy do what with their money? They ******** hoarde it. They're frugal. They CUT jobs to watch their paychecks get fatter.

Wait what? What?

Wealthy people don't spend their money?

They don't buy yachts which employ hundreds of people in the summers?

They don't have many cars which require maintenance?

They don't want construction workers landscapers to make their homes prettier?

They don't get expensive clothes?

They don't like plasma-screen TVs?

They don't enjoy golfing?

They don't throw parties and hire caterers and buy food and hire entertainment?


They just...they do what I do, spend maybe a thousand a month on bills, necessities, maybe a couple movies, and just...stick all that extra money in a giant bank account somewhere and keep it?


WHAT? Are you crazy?

That's a big generalization.

[Heather_In_Octane]

We need to do away with payroll, federal and state taxes. Make a flat tax. Everyone pays a certain percentage of their paycheck, EVERYONE. the SAME percentage. Say its.. 5%. Meaning if you get salaried 3000.00 a week, you have to pay $150 out of your check. If you bring in 250.00 a week, you pay out 12.50. No one files taxes at the end of the year and everyone is happy. Everyone has to pay out the same percentage and it all goes to the government.

[Tactical Leg Sweep]

Quote:

You miss my ******** point.

What scale is there to measure who "works hard?" My third-grade teacher "worked hard" by calling us names and handing us fill-in-the-blank work and telling my parents "these kids are below average to average and that's all they'll ever be." My fourth-grade teacher "worked hard" by engaging students, staying after school if kids had questions, etc. So how, exactly, should we judge which of them works harder and which of them deserves to earn more money? Presumably, people don't go into teaching to make money, they go into teaching because they hope they'll make a difference.

There are "rich" people out there who spend their lives developing prosthetic heart valves or figuring out how to measure the thickness of clouds by shooting lasers down out of airplanes or genetically engineering crops so that empoverished countries can have more food output per acre. Who's to say that a short-order cook is working harder than any of them? Who's got any right to judge whether they "earned" a fancier car or whether they're just coasting off your ever-so-impressive contribution to society?

I don't think I missed your point. I think your point was stupid enough that when I offered a rebuttal you actually turned against your own point. Dunno, WHO is to decide who works harder? You apparently, since you were the one stating that the upper class worked harder than the lower classes they were OH NOES having to "spend their money" on. So, yes, please answer your own questions seeing as it is your ******** point that brought up the whole idea of who worked harder.

Quote:

As far as other higher-ups go, those people do jobs I'd never want. They call the shots. They're the risk-takers. They make sure they have the right people doing the "real work" so that the jobs get done efficiently and the company turns a profit. They may be doing desk jobs, doing thought work instead of actually making a product, but I'd never want that sort of stress.

Good for you. I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would disagree with you and would MUCH RATHER be doing a desk job and "taking risks" than working as mechanics or janitors. So it's all subjective. Your point?

Quote:

YOUR point seems to be that people who are richer don't deserve all that money they were paid because they're getting paid more than you are and HOW DARE THEY. They're the ones who need to take social responsibility because by god they're the ones who worked to get to the top, they're the ones who have made successful products or were innovators in their field, and they need to help out some waitress who's just doing what they're told and only making minimum wage for it. How dare they get paid more than you, really.

Actually, I never said they didn't deserve their money. Sorry if you're part of the upper class and hearing anyone who isn't talk about money makes you panic and think we're TRYING TO TAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU EARNED. No, you're right. Because an immigrant came here and works a 9 to 5 HE should be punished. HE should be the one supporting the country. How dare he demand a fair tax. He should've just gone to Harvard like the smart ones, right? Yeah, not like there aren't business that are run through family wealth. Or you know, companies that got rich by screwing each other. Sorry. Bow down to the ever justified upper class. They are clearly the better human beings. Hey, it's my fault. I COULD'VE gone to college to get a business degree. Instead I chose to become a firefighter. God forbid anyone touch the upper class and their money.

Quote:

I can't wait 'til I finish my degree and start making more money than you so I can OWE it to the poor people who didn't work as hard and are less educated than me! Hurray.

Hey hey! And I can't wait until you get that degree and sit on your a** and tell me that I don't work as hard as you. Yeah, I can't wait until I get assigned to a fire station and your ******** mansion catches on fire so when I'm a truckie, and I respond, and I pull you in your fancy suit out of your house you can tell me I don't work as hard as you.

[Nonesuch Solo]

kitteacakes

Nonesuch Solo

I kill giants

f**k your trickle down bullshit. Sure has WORKED GREAT FOR US the last eight years too! Oh wait, unemployment has been crazy. See, trickle down is bullshit because the wealthy do what with their money? They ******** hoarde it. They're frugal. They CUT jobs to watch their paychecks get fatter.

Wait what? What?

Wealthy people don't spend their money?

They don't buy yachts which employ hundreds of people in the summers?

They don't have many cars which require maintenance?

They don't want construction workers landscapers to make their homes prettier?

They don't get expensive clothes?

They don't like plasma-screen TVs?

They don't enjoy golfing?

They don't throw parties and hire caterers and buy food and hire entertainment?


They just...they do what I do, spend maybe a thousand a month on bills, necessities, maybe a couple movies, and just...stick all that extra money in a giant bank account somewhere and keep it?


WHAT? Are you crazy?

That's a big generalization.

How many wealthy people do YOU know who live like they're barely making ends meet?

How many people do you know who live well below their means?

It's a generalization I find pretty well-represented, actually. My father has a six-figure income, while my fiance barely makes minimum wage. Now this by no means makes him a rich man; after taxes there's still a higher cost of living where my folks live. Even so, my parents do NOT live the way me and my man do. No, they spend more than twice what we can on food, they own a house, they have many kitchen appliances and gadgets, they are constantly doing little home improvement projects, they go out to restaurants once or twice a week, they grow some of their own vegetables (tomatoes, beans, bell peppers, cucumbers, strawberries, rhubarb), they can afford pets, they can have people over for dinner, etc. On my parents' combined salary, there's no way they'd have a box of macaroni and cheese for dinner when they can instead have chicken, mashed potatoes, fresh green beans from the garden, tomato and goat cheese salad, and pie when my mother cooks.

I really miss living at home sometimes. Then I remember how much fun it is to be treated like I'm still in 5th grade.

[Nonesuch Solo]

Heather Ann Potter

We need to do away with payroll, federal and state taxes. Make a flat tax. Everyone pays a certain percentage of their paycheck, EVERYONE. the SAME percentage. Say its.. 5%. Meaning if you get salaried 3000.00 a week, you have to pay $150 out of your check. If you bring in 250.00 a week, you pay out 12.50. No one files taxes at the end of the year and everyone is happy. Everyone has to pay out the same percentage and it all goes to the government.

That would make a hell of a lot more sense.

[pixelcaster]

Nonesuch Solo

How many wealthy people do YOU know who live like they're barely making ends meet?

How many people do you know who live well below their means?

It's a generalization I find pretty well-represented, actually. My father has a six-figure income, while my fiance barely makes minimum wage. Now this by no means makes him a rich man; after taxes there's still a higher cost of living where my folks live. Even so, my parents do NOT live the way me and my man do. No, they spend more than twice what we can on food, they own a house, they have many kitchen appliances and gadgets, they are constantly doing little home improvement projects, they go out to restaurants once or twice a week, they grow some of their own vegetables (tomatoes, beans, bell peppers, cucumbers, strawberries, rhubarb), they can afford pets, they can have people over for dinner, etc. On my parents' combined salary, there's no way they'd have a box of macaroni and cheese for dinner when they can instead have chicken, mashed potatoes, fresh green beans from the garden, tomato and goat cheese salad, and pie when my mother cooks.

I really miss living at home sometimes. Then I remember how much fun it is to be treated like I'm still in 5th grade.

I don't know anyone who's barely making ends meet, wealthy or middle class. But stating in such a way that it would seem that all wealthy people spend their money lavishly and live in luxury with no worries is a generalization. One of my best friends' father is a kidney specialist. Their family has 5 kids and they are still living in the same house that they've been in since my friend was 7. They don't have a maid or a nanny. They don't squander their money. They're actually very big into saving it up. So where's the lavish lifestyle there?

[Nillia]

Heather Ann Potter

We need to do away with payroll, federal and state taxes. Make a flat tax. Everyone pays a certain percentage of their paycheck, EVERYONE. the SAME percentage. Say its.. 5%. Meaning if you get salaried 3000.00 a week, you have to pay $150 out of your check. If you bring in 250.00 a week, you pay out 12.50. No one files taxes at the end of the year and everyone is happy. Everyone has to pay out the same percentage and it all goes to the government.

That sounds pretty and communist and all, but I disagree. These things always sound great in theory but flounder in practice.
I am a graduate student paying more tuition than I can handle so that I can get a degree in art therapy. It is a field that won't pay much, but a worthwhile endeavor towards service. It doesn't pay enough for taking on heavy loans (which is a particularly bad idea in this economy.) I am struggling to get by with minimal loans.

I can barely afford to eat. I was offered a car for graduating, but turned it down because I cannot afford insurance and gas. I can't even replace the shoes that are so worn they are giving me blisters.
A tax break would give myself and the rest of the new generation a few extra dollars to buy food or textbooks needed to get by as we educate ourselves into the people that will carry this country for the next few decades.

There are people out there that, if taxed more percentage-wise, will still have WAY more to live on than most people.

Quote:

You pay your taxes on your 10,000. You pay $1,600.

Frank pays his taxes on his $1,000,000. He pays $390,000

Frank still has $610,000. That is still WELL over what most people make in 10 years, even if they work just as hard as him. Frank is still heavily rewarded for all that hard work, etc. We're not asking him to "lower himself to our level." That would be communist. We are asking him to put money he can afford back in towards those that carry our country and those that need to prepare to carry our country.
If he had the same tax rate as lower income people, he would have another 170000 to spend on:
-- Helping the next generation
-- himself.
Obviously, he would feel a need to keep it to himself, because he's a real gem of a guy.

If I made that much money, I'd be happy to give back to those struggling to get where I am.

Also, what about people that work hard in fields that don't pay much? Teachers, Nurses, etc? I know a fantastic, intelligent, and caring nurse that works 60hrs a week and barely manages 40k a year. She has to support 4 kids on that little money, and her ex-husband hasn't been paying child-support.

[Nillia]

kitteacakes

Nonesuch Solo

How many wealthy people do YOU know who live like they're barely making ends meet?

How many people do you know who live well below their means?

It's a generalization I find pretty well-represented, actually. My father has a six-figure income, while my fiance barely makes minimum wage. Now this by no means makes him a rich man; after taxes there's still a higher cost of living where my folks live. Even so, my parents do NOT live the way me and my man do. No, they spend more than twice what we can on food, they own a house, they have many kitchen appliances and gadgets, they are constantly doing little home improvement projects, they go out to restaurants once or twice a week, they grow some of their own vegetables (tomatoes, beans, bell peppers, cucumbers, strawberries, rhubarb), they can afford pets, they can have people over for dinner, etc. On my parents' combined salary, there's no way they'd have a box of macaroni and cheese for dinner when they can instead have chicken, mashed potatoes, fresh green beans from the garden, tomato and goat cheese salad, and pie when my mother cooks.

I really miss living at home sometimes. Then I remember how much fun it is to be treated like I'm still in 5th grade.

I don't know anyone who's barely making ends meet, wealthy or middle class. But stating in such a way that it would seem that all wealthy people spend their money lavishly and live in luxury with no worries is a generalization. One of my best friends' father is a kidney specialist. Their family has 5 kids and they are still living in the same house that they've been in since my friend was 7. They don't have a maid or a nanny. They don't squander their money. They're actually very big into saving it up. So where's the lavish lifestyle there?

Relatively, doctors don't make as much as they used to. I actually don't agree with how democrats are prone to suing doctors into the ground, too. (Proof that I'm a moderate)
The thing is, that family isn't all that wealthy. They make good money, but 5 kids is a big expense, and they're probably saving for paying 5 rounds of costly college tuition.
It balances out, though. Every single child can be claimed as a dependent, which means considerable tax cuts.
With a family like that, I'd call that family middle-class or upper-middle class.

[Nonesuch Solo]

I kill giants

I don't think I missed your point. I think your point was stupid enough that when I offered a rebuttal you actually turned against your own point. Dunno, WHO is to decide who works harder? You apparently, since you were the one stating that the upper class worked harder than the lower classes they were OH NOES having to "spend their money" on. So, yes, please answer your own questions seeing as it is your ******** point that brought up the whole idea of who worked harder.

I brought up my fiance's sister, who doesn't work at all. I did mention that "working harder" is the idea of capitalism, which I don't necessarily agree with. HOWEVER, I also don't think that teachers always "work harder" than CEOs. You're the one implying firefighters and police officers and paramedics and teachers and construction workers and nurses work harder than people richer than them.

So I guess the misunderstanding is that "obviously richer people worked harder" is not MY personal belief, just the idea capitalism is based on.

Many people who earn more money DO WORK HARDER than some people who don't earn as much. Like, for example, myself compared to my fiance. He works a lot harder than me, and he earns more money than I do. That's how it should be, right?

I kill giants

Good for you. I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would disagree with you and would MUCH RATHER be doing a desk job and "taking risks" than working as mechanics or janitors. So it's all subjective. Your point?

My point is that CEOs don't just sit on their a** all day not doing anything. If someone would rather have a desk job, then go for it.

I kill giants

Actually, I never said they didn't deserve their money. Sorry if you're part of the upper class and hearing anyone who isn't talk about money makes you panic and think we're TRYING TO TAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU EARNED. No, you're right. Because an immigrant came here and works a 9 to 5 HE should be punished. HE should be the one supporting the country. How dare he demand a fair tax. He should've just gone to Harvard like the smart ones, right? Yeah, not like there aren't business that are run through family wealth. Or you know, companies that got rich by screwing each other. Sorry. Bow down to the ever justified upper class. They are clearly the better human beings. Hey, it's my fault. I COULD'VE gone to college to get a business degree. Instead I chose to become a firefighter. God forbid anyone touch the upper class and their money.

The hell is your problem buddy?

Firstly, let's get this straight: I am not nor have I ever been part of the upper class. I've never made more than $10k/year, even when I was living in the area with the second highest standard of living in the country. Believe me, it's hard when you can't even afford a shitty one-bedroom apartment while working three jobs, but that doesn't mean that anyone else is obliged to help me by giving me free money.

How the hell is it fair to take a larger percentage of someone's money because they make more money?

I kill giants

Hey hey! And I can't wait until you get that degree and sit on your a** and tell me that I don't work as hard as you. Yeah, I can't wait until I get assigned to a fire station and your ******** mansion catches on fire so when I'm a truckie, and I respond, and I pull you in your fancy suit out of your house you can tell me I don't work as hard as you.

If you want a job that makes more money, you know what you'd need to do. I'm assuming you think that a job as a firefighter would be more rewarding to you personally, because you would enjoy it more, you would feel like you're making a difference, you want to help people in trouble, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said about teaching, I don't think people go into firefighting to make money.

I plan on doing something which is fun for me, something I am good at, something that is hard for many people to wrap their minds around, something which may be a desk job but is more challenging for me than working retail, and something which will help me keep afloat financially. I'll probably wind up making more money than a firefighter after a few years experience. Doesn't mean I'm better than you, it just means I chose a career that in general pays better. So cut this self-righteous bullcrap and realize that I never said I was the judge of "hard work" but that sometimes there's a reason people get paid more.

[Nonesuch Solo]

kitteacakes

Nonesuch Solo

How many wealthy people do YOU know who live like they're barely making ends meet?

How many people do you know who live well below their means?

It's a generalization I find pretty well-represented, actually. My father has a six-figure income, while my fiance barely makes minimum wage. Now this by no means makes him a rich man; after taxes there's still a higher cost of living where my folks live. Even so, my parents do NOT live the way me and my man do. No, they spend more than twice what we can on food, they own a house, they have many kitchen appliances and gadgets, they are constantly doing little home improvement projects, they go out to restaurants once or twice a week, they grow some of their own vegetables (tomatoes, beans, bell peppers, cucumbers, strawberries, rhubarb), they can afford pets, they can have people over for dinner, etc. On my parents' combined salary, there's no way they'd have a box of macaroni and cheese for dinner when they can instead have chicken, mashed potatoes, fresh green beans from the garden, tomato and goat cheese salad, and pie when my mother cooks.

I really miss living at home sometimes. Then I remember how much fun it is to be treated like I'm still in 5th grade.

I don't know anyone who's barely making ends meet, wealthy or middle class. But stating in such a way that it would seem that all wealthy people spend their money lavishly and live in luxury with no worries is a generalization. One of my best friends' father is a kidney specialist. Their family has 5 kids and they are still living in the same house that they've been in since my friend was 7. They don't have a maid or a nanny. They don't squander their money. They're actually very big into saving it up. So where's the lavish lifestyle there?

It doesn't have to be lavish. (Actually, children IMO are somewhat of a financial luxury simply because of how much money you're expected to spend on them in our society.) And the things I mentioned aren't "squandering" either! You can buy expensive things and still have a savings! You can have children or pets that you support financially, and still have a savings!

I doubt your friend lived on Kraft dinners because the father would rather save a few bucks than give his kids healthy, wholesome meals.