Isolation in Japan

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Riviera de la Mancha

Eh, I don't know dude, but it seems to me like a fair amount of this loneliness you are experiencing is self-imposed.

I have read several of your posts and all you seem to do is go to bars. I don't care where you go in this world - bars are TERRIBLE places to meet people.

When you go somewhere, you say you only go when you have a purpose, which you defined as going to meet someone you already know, or accompanying a friend. You can't meet anyone new if you only hang with people you know.

I would take this opportunity to be more adventurous than you would in the US. I mean, how likely will it be that you will see anyone in that town again? Do you plan on living there where you are in Japan? If not, then why care what people will think? If I were you, I would be going into random bars and restaurants, forcing my way into conversations, chatting with strangers, going to random events, etc. I mean, ********, YOU ARE IN JAPAN. Not many people can say that they have been there.

Plus, you seem to have the added advantage of being a foreigner around people who have met few outsiders, if nothing else, make a game of going out. Sometimes when I used to travel on my own, I would make up a totally fictitious persona before going out and would then live that life out when I went out on the town. My goal was to see who, and how many, people I could fool and how far I could carry it before I had to abandon ship.

Firstly, I live and work in Japan, and I will be in Obihiro at least until May 2016, over a year from now.
Secondly, making up a persona defeats the purpose because I'm not trying to talk to people just to be showy. I'm trying to make friends, so I eventually have to talk about who I really am, and starting off with a lie is a good way to take the first step with the wrong foot.

Third, statistically, the odds that I run into someone I know in my city are about than 1 in 95 (Based on the number of students I teach across the different schools I work at and the faculty I work with too).
However, only a small number of that is comprised of coworkers, as I teach to a lot of students. Thus, if I'm at a bar, I'm unlikely to run into any of the students (since none are old enough to drink). Relationships between a teacher and a student are taboo anyway, and we're expected to be cold and strict in the classroom setting.

Anyway, it's a bad idea to lie to people when you actually live in the bloody area, and furthermore, I have nothing to gain by lying.

Putting on a mask is kind of the opposite of emotional expression, don't you think?

Where did I say that the persona thing was to be showy? Its just a fun thing to do when you are out in a new place on your own for a fairly short length of time. I'd consider a year a fairly short time. It seemed to me like your past efforts to make friends were not too successful, so I figured you might have some fun like I do when I do it. In those situations, making friends is not high on my list because I am just there for like a few weeks. Seems like it would be more fun than what you have described so far: drinking with randos in a bar and chatting it up with one old dude.

If friendship is your goal, then just out there I say. You seem to be really hung up on your image or on self-imposed fears. I'd just say '******** it' and live life, especially if its unlikely for you to run into your students.

You seem to be wasting a golden opportunity to have some unique experiences if you stopped being so hung up on fitting in to cultural boxes. That seems to be the source of your fears, so just shed it, you know?

[SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU]

Riviera de la Mancha

The Japanese often already have poor opinions of foreigners - reinforcing them doesn't seem like a wonderful idea to me, and exhibiting loud, rude and purposely strange behaviour would be offensive, given any knowledge of Japanese manners.

Again, he is intending/is living and working in a community - he wants to make friends, and behaving how you suggest would only result in him being ostracized and avoided.

What seems like a particularly lame idea to me is to invest all the time, energy, and funds to go and live on the other side of the world and then let local biases or self-imposed apprehension to dictate the experience I have. If that's going to be the case, I'd have rather have saved myself the expense and headache and not have gone at all. Takes a little bit of that Lewis and Clark mentality to have fun when you travel is my point.

According to you and some of his own comments, he is already pretty ostracized and excluded by virtue of being a foreigner. Can't go much lower than the bottom, so might as well double-down and enjoy the ride. Certainly seems a lot better than sitting around making a Gaia thread about how lonely you are. This is especially going to be the case where, as I have said, you have no interest in making the place your permanent home. Intending to live and work does not amount to intending to make the place your permanent home.

There is a difference between being ostracized and being lonely due to being new and un-introduced to an area. If I act like a rude fool, then I will be ostracized, that is, actively avoided for having an undesirable reputation.
Currently, I have no social reputation one way or the other. Being in the middle of the slider, yes, I have MUCH further lower I can go by acting stupidly.

Also, you have never been severely socially isolated, have you?
When a person is painfully alone, they struggle to enjoy things. Making efforts to go out and socialize takes up a ton of energy and is extremely stressful.
Thus, it makes sense to plan things ahead. I am ill-equipped to plan things out on my own because I'm so distracted by my own negative mindset, so I decided to reach out on Gaia.

I'm not talking about "Woe is me, I'm so lonely" in this thread. I'm trying to find a cure for loneliness.

Also, what, exactly is your plan of attack that you're suggesting? You seem pretty convinced that making waves is the way to go about this, but how would one practically apply that?
Say, you're in a bar and there are a couple of groups of Japanese friends having conversations amongst themselves, but no one is sitting alone.
Intreague me with your plan.

[SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU]

Riviera de la Mancha

Where did I say that the persona thing was to be showy? Its just a fun thing to do when you are out in a new place on your own for a fairly short length of time. I'd consider a year a fairly short time. It seemed to me like your past efforts to make friends were not too successful, so I figured you might have some fun like I do when I do it. In those situations, making friends is not high on my list because I am just there for like a few weeks. Seems like it would be more fun than what you have described so far: drinking with randos in a bar and chatting it up with one old dude.

If friendship is your goal, then just out there I say. You seem to be really hung up on your image or on self-imposed fears. I'd just say '******** it' and live life, especially if its unlikely for you to run into your students.

You seem to be wasting a golden opportunity to have some unique experiences if you stopped being so hung up on fitting in to cultural boxes. That seems to be the source of your fears, so just shed it, you know?

So... what exactly do you suggest doing?
I'll have you know that I have been going to every community event I can. Most recently was the Sunday before last, for the "coming of age day" celebration. So I have actively been making efforts to go out and connect with others.

The fireworks festival, a welcoming party in my region where we were also saying goodbye to the English teachers I and two others replaced, a cookout and hiking trip, two evenings of the Odori Bon festival, an early halloween party, a fall meeting among other English teachers, a belated halloween party, Educator's conference in Sapporo, a thanksgiving community dinner, a cultural festival centered around wine sampling, and many trips to the local arcade where I would often turn heads with my skill at dance games (which is a pointless talent, though good for exercise).

I've been around the block more than a few times.
It's forgivable that I had not divulged this information before, but now that you know, I would find it unseemly if you told me my loneliness is my fault for "not trying."

Everyone is already paired up or doesn't care about making friends that they aren't going to be able to see face-to-face.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Riviera de la Mancha

The Japanese often already have poor opinions of foreigners - reinforcing them doesn't seem like a wonderful idea to me, and exhibiting loud, rude and purposely strange behaviour would be offensive, given any knowledge of Japanese manners.

Again, he is intending/is living and working in a community - he wants to make friends, and behaving how you suggest would only result in him being ostracized and avoided.

What seems like a particularly lame idea to me is to invest all the time, energy, and funds to go and live on the other side of the world and then let local biases or self-imposed apprehension to dictate the experience I have. If that's going to be the case, I'd have rather have saved myself the expense and headache and not have gone at all. Takes a little bit of that Lewis and Clark mentality to have fun when you travel is my point.

According to you and some of his own comments, he is already pretty ostracized and excluded by virtue of being a foreigner. Can't go much lower than the bottom, so might as well double-down and enjoy the ride. Certainly seems a lot better than sitting around making a Gaia thread about how lonely you are. This is especially going to be the case where, as I have said, you have no interest in making the place your permanent home. Intending to live and work does not amount to intending to make the place your permanent home.

There is a difference between being ostracized and being lonely due to being new and un-introduced to an area. If I act like a rude fool, then I will be ostracized, that is, actively avoided for having an undesirable reputation.
Currently, I have no social reputation one way or the other. Being in the middle of the slider, yes, I have MUCH further lower I can go by acting stupidly.

Also, you have never been severely socially isolated, have you?
When a person is painfully alone, they struggle to enjoy things. Making efforts to go out and socialize takes up a ton of energy and is extremely stressful.
Thus, it makes sense to plan things ahead. I am ill-equipped to plan things out on my own because I'm so distracted by my own negative mindset, so I decided to reach out on Gaia.

I'm not talking about "Woe is me, I'm so lonely" in this thread. I'm trying to find a cure for loneliness.

Also, what, exactly is your plan of attack that you're suggesting? You seem pretty convinced that making waves is the way to go about this, but how would one practically apply that?
Say, you're in a bar and there are a couple of groups of Japanese friends having conversations amongst themselves, but no one is sitting alone.
Intreague me with your plan.

Seems like living apprehensively of being thought a rude fool is much worse than running that risk by putting yourself out there and being chatty.

I actually have. For most of my childhood and into my teen years actually. What I found liberating was when I stopped acting with a view to being accepted by others and trying to adhere to social norms I was not comfortable with. When I finally stopped that, I found that life got much more enjoyable and God/Allah/Buddha/luck/chance/fate had a way of bringing good people into my life. I learned that I was as much a source of my loneliness as others around me, because I was playing into it.

My advice is to just be who you are and do what makes you happy. If that "makes waves", then so be it. If it doesn't just as fine as well. I encourage you to not even think about "waves" at all actually.

If I was in a bar and I saw a bunch of people sitting around talking, I'd begin by talking to the bar tender and ordering a round of cheap beers for the table. I'd then introduce myself with something like, "Hey, my name is Mancha. I am a English teacher from the U.S. and new to town and still trying to figure my way around here. What's there to do around here? Figured locals would know best." Didn't fail me in most of my interactions with people. If a conversation grows naturally, sweet. If it doesn't, I get tips on where to go that may be better. Plenty of other ways too. One I'll do too is just bring a book to a bar and read. I like people-watching and reading. Invariably someone (usually a girl) comes up to me and asks "Are you reading a book in a bar? Who does that?". I then say something like, "Its a good book and I can't put it down. You reading anything?" It just depends on who you are - as long as its natural for you, then people will see that and it has a way of inviting people in.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Riviera de la Mancha

Where did I say that the persona thing was to be showy? Its just a fun thing to do when you are out in a new place on your own for a fairly short length of time. I'd consider a year a fairly short time. It seemed to me like your past efforts to make friends were not too successful, so I figured you might have some fun like I do when I do it. In those situations, making friends is not high on my list because I am just there for like a few weeks. Seems like it would be more fun than what you have described so far: drinking with randos in a bar and chatting it up with one old dude.

If friendship is your goal, then just out there I say. You seem to be really hung up on your image or on self-imposed fears. I'd just say '******** it' and live life, especially if its unlikely for you to run into your students.

You seem to be wasting a golden opportunity to have some unique experiences if you stopped being so hung up on fitting in to cultural boxes. That seems to be the source of your fears, so just shed it, you know?

So... what exactly do you suggest doing?
I'll have you know that I have been going to every community event I can. Most recently was the Sunday before last, for the "coming of age day" celebration. So I have actively been making efforts to go out and connect with others.

The fireworks festival, a welcoming party in my region where we were also saying goodbye to the English teachers I and two others replaced, a cookout and hiking trip, two evenings of the Odori Bon festival, an early halloween party, a fall meeting among other English teachers, a belated halloween party, Educator's conference in Sapporo, a thanksgiving community dinner, a cultural festival centered around wine sampling, and many trips to the local arcade where I would often turn heads with my skill at dance games (which is a pointless talent, though good for exercise).

I've been around the block more than a few times.
It's forgivable that I had not divulged this information before, but now that you know, I would find it unseemly if you told me my loneliness is my fault for "not trying."

Everyone is already paired up or doesn't care about making friends that they aren't going to be able to see face-to-face.

Just going to a place won't magically make things happen. There is more to it in order to put yourself out there. Seems like its not for a want of trying, but a want for learning how to be better at it.

So then make an effort to meet face-to-face then if that's what people prefer.

[SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU]

Instead of reading a book, I draw in a sketchbook.
I'd have to explain a book, especially if it's something in English that might not be familiar to a Japanese audience. Pictures speak for themselves.

Also, I went to the local community center for info on some events in the coming weeks that I could try to meet people at.

Sadly, I'm being hit with a bad headache right now. Just... yeah, ow

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Instead of reading a book, I draw in a sketchbook.
I'd have to explain a book, especially if it's something in English that might not be familiar to a Japanese audience. Pictures speak for themselves.

Also, I went to the local community center for info on some events in the coming weeks that I could try to meet people at.

Sadly, I'm being hit with a bad headache right now. Just... yeah, ow

Sucks with the headache.

Anyhow, yeah, the book thing is just what works for me. My point is that you find things and events which feel right for you. Bars make me a little uncomfortable, so they are my last choice of places to go, whether I am somewhere new or walking around my hometown for the night. So, if I am going in to one, carrying a book is much easier for me because it lets me be in my own world when feelings of uncomfortableness come over me.

Community centers are good. Still, its better to go and talk to people as well. Or pretend that you don't know and let them tell you about the event. The whole point is that you don't want to let your knowledge obscure opportunities to dialog with people. More often than not, letting people share their experiences opens them up to you while you then learn a new, previously unknown angle.

[SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU]

Riviera de la Mancha

Still, its better to go and talk to people as well.

Umm... yeah, this is why I go to bars and community events. Did you have something else in mind that I am missing out on?

I got a bad piece of advice from a coworker. She said I should go to a library to meet people. You're not supposed to talk in libraries, for one, and also, people in a library don't want to be bothered. You don't go to a library to meet people... My coworker was just saying that because I mentioned I like smart girls, and the library was the first thing that came into mind.

I give up.

[Piss Thrower]

Yoshpet

Piss Thrower

In certain animes I watch, a lonely guy winds up bumping into a random lolita in the street, suddenly, you live in a house with 2 or 3 gjrls desperately vying for your attention... i'm sure thats how it often works in japan....

You forgot the part where half of them have superpowers.

Man, living in japan must rule

[Riviera de la Mancha]

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Riviera de la Mancha

Still, its better to go and talk to people as well.

Umm... yeah, this is why I go to bars and community events. Did you have something else in mind that I am missing out on?

I got a bad piece of advice from a coworker. She said I should go to a library to meet people. You're not supposed to talk in libraries, for one, and also, people in a library don't want to be bothered. You don't go to a library to meet people... My coworker was just saying that because I mentioned I like smart girls, and the library was the first thing that came into mind.

I give up.

I perhaps was not as clear as I could have been.

I was just saying that, in finding out where to go and what to do, you should not simply rely on the community center postings because there is no interaction in reading a posting.

The library is not a bad idea if the library has places where people can hang out and talk. My neighborhood library does. It has a full-blown anime and young reader's section with bean bag chairs, tables, and a sign which says that talking is allowed.

If you give up that easy, then that's on you then.

[SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU]

Riviera de la Mancha

SHOSHIRO-AKAMARU

Riviera de la Mancha

Still, its better to go and talk to people as well.

Umm... yeah, this is why I go to bars and community events. Did you have something else in mind that I am missing out on?

I got a bad piece of advice from a coworker. She said I should go to a library to meet people. You're not supposed to talk in libraries, for one, and also, people in a library don't want to be bothered. You don't go to a library to meet people... My coworker was just saying that because I mentioned I like smart girls, and the library was the first thing that came into mind.

I give up.

I perhaps was not as clear as I could have been.

I was just saying that, in finding out where to go and what to do, you should not simply rely on the community center postings because there is no interaction in reading a posting.

The library is not a bad idea if the library has places where people can hang out and talk. My neighborhood library does. It has a full-blown anime and young reader's section with bean bag chairs, tables, and a sign which says that talking is allowed.

If you give up that easy, then that's on you then.

Well, you can't say I didn't try this weekend.
I went to a community center international discussion on Saturday (we were talking about the African country Malawi where a native gave a presentation about the country)

I met a couple of students from the nearby agricultural university, and talked okay for a bit, but they all said they were too busy with college when I asked to exchange e-mails. Eh, I can't blame them for being dedicated to study.

On Sunday, I went to a capouera class. Yeah, that Brazillian martial arts style; there's a Japanese guy and his girlfriend who are both crazy about Brazillian culture for some reason. Then there's this older Shri Lankan lady who has been part of the class for a long time, but other than that, there was no one there.
It was kind of a drag, especially since it was a rough walk in the cold.