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Fanatical Zealot

Impending war with Russia
As I illustrated in my previous topic detailing the growing conflict in Syria and Ukraine, it appears now as if Russia has more or less jumped the proverbial shark not just by sending warships to block the U.S. into going into Syria and battling several very real threats that are getting out of control, including Assad and ISIL, [1][2][3] but by sending troops, special forces of all groups, into the Ukraine to capture key manufacturing and industrial areas. [1][2][3][4] Largely considered by the international community to still be Ukraine territory, more or less Russia is in control of these territories, with it's military guarding them, and the only way to recapture these areas of Ukraine's country to be in direct conflict with Russia. It's a horrifying prospect, indeed.

NATO is on alert as they fear Russia may decide to try and take over more territory, and the world is now tensing for what might be the biggest conflict since WWII. [1][2][3][4] The illusion of peace between Russia and NATO is now shattered; the thin veil which kept the war cold between us has now fell, if not been burned, as Mutually Assured destruction from the threat of nuclear warfare is no longer a deterrent for war. With the leaders of Russia doing insane and psychotic things, we are now on the brink of a war that could spell the wide spread destruction of large parts of the world; even if it's not done over Ukraine, or over Syria, Russia most likely will continue more and more, until there is something we are not willing to let them take. Russia has sent bomber aircraft closer to the U.S. than during even the cold war, making this worse than any time during that period. [1][2][3][4]


In the meantime, the U.S. has begun bombing in Syria, and placed sanctions on Russia. While these sanctions were designed largely to be put on rich people, Russia's government once again overreacted by, strangely enough, placing sanctions on themselves, preventing food from entering their country. Russia's very strategy seems to be at the moment, please stand still or we will be shooting ourselves. Or, perhaps, more aptly, Russia's government is threatening it's own people to be annihilated by the U.S., be it in nuclear war and it's soldier's who are largely blind to what's going on (although many are starting to realize what is happening, no thanks to the propaganda control) who they obviously don't seem to care about. This is a startling turn of events, as it only seems to be escalating.

While Russia denies it's troops being in Ukraine supporting the rebels [1][2][3], they also said the same thing in Crimea; now admitting they are there, but that they are on vacation [1][2][3], and giving them medals, it's fairly obvious that the two-face Russia is putting up is a blatant lie, and with their past actions would make it difficult if ever possible to reconcile with Russia fully after this point, especially while still having Crimea under their control. With increasingly flimsy excuses, which still paint Russia in a bad light if they are to be believed (how would someone take it if American soldiers invaded their country, took all their weapons and guns with them, and started bombing them on their vacations, and then were given medals for it, encouraging the behavior?), it's difficult to find a way that would make this situation end well.


The question, for the moment, ED, is what do you think we should do?

As the world edges closer to a god awful war, what are your thoughts on the issue?
One thing we should do is to begin by easing tensions between the US and Russia. I'm not really sure if this is reversible or not, but the US should quickly reverse the current trend of reducing funding of the military and build up an arsenal, as Russia is doing. What Putin is doing now is trying to militarize as fast as Russia can to display it's power in the hopes that the intimidation can dissuade any sort of competition.

The result of this conflict could very well be the end of one of us (or the entire world if nuclear warheads are used) and therefore all of our options should be greatly examined and implemented before war.

Fanatical Zealot

Hi nwn
One thing we should do is to begin by easing tensions between the US and Russia. I'm not really sure if this is reversible or not, but the US should quickly reverse the current trend of reducing funding of the military and build up an arsenal, as Russia is doing. What Putin is doing now is trying to militarize as fast as Russia can to display it's power in the hopes that the intimidation can dissuade any sort of competition.

The result of this conflict could very well be the end of one of us (or the entire world if nuclear warheads are used) and therefore all of our options should be greatly examined and implemented before war.


Yeah... I said, kinetic orbital bombardment of the capital, by launching space ships with heavy depleted uranium telephone poles onto them and concentrate the damage just on the rich. That way, we can avoid using a nuke, and it may even penetrate their bunkers. Win-win.

They elect a new president who's hopefully not as crazy.


That and put up the Aegis defense system via the navy around Russia to prevent nukes from going anywhere if they do fly. xp
Suicidesoldier#1
Hi nwn
One thing we should do is to begin by easing tensions between the US and Russia. I'm not really sure if this is reversible or not, but the US should quickly reverse the current trend of reducing funding of the military and build up an arsenal, as Russia is doing. What Putin is doing now is trying to militarize as fast as Russia can to display it's power in the hopes that the intimidation can dissuade any sort of competition.

The result of this conflict could very well be the end of one of us (or the entire world if nuclear warheads are used) and therefore all of our options should be greatly examined and implemented before war.


Yeah... I said, kinetic orbital bombardment of the capital, by launching space ships with heavy depleted uranium telephone poles onto them and concentrate the damage just on the rich. That way, we can avoid using a nuke, and it may even penetrate their bunkers. Win-win.

They elect a new president who's hopefully not as crazy.


That and put up the Aegis defense system via the navy around Russia to prevent nukes from going anywhere if they do fly. xp
The very first thing we must do before anything happens is to get a competent leader. Putin actively mocks our president and shrugs off the sanctions imposed as nonsense. These sanctions will be meaningless once Russia begins actively and directly trading with China.

Perhaps the era of the US being a major power will reach an end once everyone sees the total incompetence of the federal government. Politics is to blame for the dire situation that we are currently facing.

I was not speaking of military strategy. Rather I was speaking of a peaceful way of ending this without any sort of conflict. To avoid taking the Cold War approach with Russia once more. Maybe all we have for us now is conflict and there is no turning back, as Putin is very comfortable dooming the Russian populace only to display Russia as a greater power.
This is why you don't get involved with other countries. The life of an American is more valuable than the life of a Ukranian.

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*sigh* Wrong question, wrong answer, same problem...

...the west is deliberately fighting the wrong opponents because we refuse to be honest about the source of conflict in these parts of the world

How easy it is to forget what happened only a year or so ago, huh? A year ago, President Obama was talking about helping groups like Al Nusrah and Islamic State overthrow Assad just like we had helped the terrorists topple Gaddafi. Putin made the crucial mistake of preferring a tyrant over islamic terrorists. As a natural side effect, he caused both President Obama and Secretary Kerry to suffer significant damage to their sensitive egos. One thing you should never do is to poke an egotist in his inflated ego.

A year on, and where are we? The forces of Caliphate are ranging across Iraq and Syria, and beyond...like Lebanon, for instance. Instead of working with our natural ally in the Levant, Assad, we are allowing our short-sightedness to give the forces of Caliphate the chance to expand. The Obama Administration takes advantage of Putin's ambitions in the Slavosphere to bring NATO to the brink of yet another senseless war in Ukraine. But don't worry everyone, I'm sure we can defeat the Russians without having any boots on the ground...it will simply be another of Secretary Kerry's "Unbelievably Small" kinds of effort. rolleyes

What do I think we should do? What are my thoughts on the issues? I think that the west should remind the White House that Putin didn't attack us in November 2013...if anything, he kept us from giving Syria and the wider Fertile Crescent over to Al Nusrah and ISIL. We should realize that whatever 'moderate' muslim groups we keep touting in Syria could very well become the ISIL of 2015, because the operable word in Islamic State is there for a reason.

I also think that the United States and NATO should realize that all a war with Russia would accomplish is depriving the civilized world of a sizeable army that could defend the world against the forces of Caliphate...and the uncomfortably historical ideologies and philosophies backing it.

Beloved Lunatic

...

Ignores Russia.
Obama is the only president who could lose a cold war. War with Russia if a cold war, with most presidents is absolutely meaningless to anyone who isn't either pandering missiles and jets (i.e. Lockheed/Boeing) or is flying them (i.e. Marines & Airforce). In the beginning of 2020s, our Naval kinetic accelerators go on line on little non-battle ship boats. Meanwhile we are building crap for space wars, but that's all late 2020s mid 2030s+ technology.

Right now the world needs a good catastrophe sufficiently large enough to produce enough randomness that the traditional controlled opposition structures buckle in some places and allow for some minor pockets of resistance and liberty. Obviously the major controlling forces will eventually regain control, but perhaps some of them can be lost during that chaotic moment, and perhaps resources can redistribute slightly to favor at least a few more of the better people in the world.

Realistically, we need a jubilee or reset for things like National and Student debt. This constant tracking of resources over decades and generations isn't making anyone, not even the rulers wealthier. If anything, they are sabotaging their objectives of wealth because people ultimately produce new wealth based on the principles of innovation and hope. Kill their hopes and they won't bother working. It doesn't matter if you have a trillion dollars if no one makes anything for you to buy or influence. If the people stop feeling like they have opportunity, they will just laze about, and unable to do that, will off themselves. Those without suicidal tendencies will eventually form mobs and hunt down the wealthy, including mansion and castle owning megacorporation heads and trillionaire dynasties with excessive derivative and debt based assets, and those angry mobs will draw and quarter these dynasties, including their prostitutes, their mistresses, their wives, and their children and grandchildren. Great bonfires will be lit using 16th century art works and books.

Seriously, they don't know what they are asking for.

A cold war turned into a real war might be the only thing that saves them. Use the wars as an excuse to wipe the debts for this generation. They can always issue credit cards after its over and restart the debt cycle. But kill hope? That's just economic and political suicide. Even for a member of the Black bird on the Red shield.

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Meh we havent had a war in a long time we're about due. xp
I'm not fighting Russia. You go to hell.
Michael Noire


Right now the world needs a good catastrophe sufficiently large enough to produce enough randomness that the traditional controlled opposition structures buckle in some places and allow for some minor pockets of resistance and liberty. Obviously the major controlling forces will eventually regain control, but perhaps some of them can be lost during that chaotic moment, and perhaps resources can redistribute slightly to favor at least a few more of the better people in the world.

Perhaps you underestimate just how hard we will turn up when the time comes.

Wrathful Wrangler

God Emperor Baldur
This is why you don't get involved with other countries. The life of an American is more valuable than the life of a Ukranian.


      No. Just no.
      What?
      In what way is an American more valuable than a Ukrainian?
the reverend silver
Michael Noire


Right now the world needs a good catastrophe sufficiently large enough to produce enough randomness that the traditional controlled opposition structures buckle in some places and allow for some minor pockets of resistance and liberty. Obviously the major controlling forces will eventually regain control, but perhaps some of them can be lost during that chaotic moment, and perhaps resources can redistribute slightly to favor at least a few more of the better people in the world.

Perhaps you underestimate just how hard we will turn up when the time comes.


?

hard we will turn up...I don't think I understand the context of the statement. What does turn up mean? and who is "we" in this statement?

Fanatical Zealot

Hi nwn
Suicidesoldier#1
Hi nwn
One thing we should do is to begin by easing tensions between the US and Russia. I'm not really sure if this is reversible or not, but the US should quickly reverse the current trend of reducing funding of the military and build up an arsenal, as Russia is doing. What Putin is doing now is trying to militarize as fast as Russia can to display it's power in the hopes that the intimidation can dissuade any sort of competition.

The result of this conflict could very well be the end of one of us (or the entire world if nuclear warheads are used) and therefore all of our options should be greatly examined and implemented before war.


Yeah... I said, kinetic orbital bombardment of the capital, by launching space ships with heavy depleted uranium telephone poles onto them and concentrate the damage just on the rich. That way, we can avoid using a nuke, and it may even penetrate their bunkers. Win-win.

They elect a new president who's hopefully not as crazy.


That and put up the Aegis defense system via the navy around Russia to prevent nukes from going anywhere if they do fly. xp
The very first thing we must do before anything happens is to get a competent leader. Putin actively mocks our president and shrugs off the sanctions imposed as nonsense. These sanctions will be meaningless once Russia begins actively and directly trading with China.

Perhaps the era of the US being a major power will reach an end once everyone sees the total incompetence of the federal government. Politics is to blame for the dire situation that we are currently facing.

I was not speaking of military strategy. Rather I was speaking of a peaceful way of ending this without any sort of conflict. To avoid taking the Cold War approach with Russia once more. Maybe all we have for us now is conflict and there is no turning back, as Putin is very comfortable dooming the Russian populace only to display Russia as a greater power.


Nah... I just say we bomb em. xp

Please, just let us bomb them. It'll be WAY easier xD


I'm joking, of course. I hope that is possible, and we should obviously take it if available, but as to how, I have no idea.

As far as it goes, I'm not sure what a new leader would even do. What is the appropriate approach? O.o

Fanatical Zealot

Patton


*sigh* Wrong question, wrong answer, same problem...

...the west is deliberately fighting the wrong opponents because we refuse to be honest about the source of conflict in these parts of the world

How easy it is to forget what happened only a year or so ago, huh? A year ago, President Obama was talking about helping groups like Al Nusrah and Islamic State overthrow Assad just like we had helped the terrorists topple Gaddafi. Putin made the crucial mistake of preferring a tyrant over islamic terrorists. As a natural side effect, he caused both President Obama and Secretary Kerry to suffer significant damage to their sensitive egos. One thing you should never do is to poke an egotist in his inflated ego.

A year on, and where are we? The forces of Caliphate are ranging across Iraq and Syria, and beyond...like Lebanon, for instance. Instead of working with our natural ally in the Levant, Assad, we are allowing our short-sightedness to give the forces of Caliphate the chance to expand. The Obama Administration takes advantage of Putin's ambitions in the Slavosphere to bring NATO to the brink of yet another senseless war in Ukraine. But don't worry everyone, I'm sure we can defeat the Russians without having any boots on the ground...it will simply be another of Secretary Kerry's "Unbelievably Small" kinds of effort. rolleyes

What do I think we should do? What are my thoughts on the issues? I think that the west should remind the White House that Putin didn't attack us in November 2013...if anything, he kept us from giving Syria and the wider Fertile Crescent over to Al Nusrah and ISIL. We should realize that whatever 'moderate' muslim groups we keep touting in Syria could very well become the ISIL of 2015, because the operable word in Islamic State is there for a reason.

I also think that the United States and NATO should realize that all a war with Russia would accomplish is depriving the civilized world of a sizeable army that could defend the world against the forces of Caliphate...and the uncomfortably historical ideologies and philosophies backing it.

Um... well, the Free Syrian Army and Islamic Front aren't terrorists or Al Nusra, so, we never went on to support ISIS or any of that, plus Assad gassed his own people, make a nuclear reactor illegally, is already massacring hundreds of thousands and wants to kill off a portion of the population just because they were born, so... yeah. Not exactly going to be a natural ally.

It shouldn't take much to take down ISIL, but of course there are those who view war as inherently evil and all those who partake in it as evil, and thus can't accept that the world is bad and we should do the lesser evil to make it better. It's pretty much all politics talk about "Well, the world isn't perfect" ... "Yeah, because you made it that way!" ... "There's no grounds for that?" ... "******** you, I'm going to blame it all on you and then say doing nothing is the solution!"


That's like all modern politics.

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