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Immigration Laws: Reaonable Restriction or Racist Crap?
Tags: immigration  laws  reaonable  restriction  racist 
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Post: 40263695_46 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:01 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:01 am
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"


I was trying to make it clear why those were different.


Yes of course they are different,
To install robotic arms in production lines and other manufacturing process not only means more competition between workers but no competition at all. A robotic arm will substitute a worker and will hurt the Americans who did similar jobs.

Outsourcing not only means more competition, but the complete dismantling of a business area, taking it to another country. Which means that you have to compite with outside minimun wages (which are lower than any illegal immigrant gets payed under the table). This will hurt American workers and also the wages are spent in another country.

But they can all be stopped by the government as well.


They can be stopped by restricting citizens who they are supposed to not go around restricting.'

Edit: That is, they aren't supposed to go around restricting citizens for other citizens benefit.


Yeah, so illegal immigrants help business men, gives them cheap labor for them to have an edge, therefore expanding themselves and keeping their prices at a reasonable amount of money.
Roughly speaking everyone benefits from this except the citizen that 'lost' their job. Isn't it that what you are saying?


Well besides those who lose their jobs, an increased supply of low skilled workers decreases wages for low skilled workers in general. So low skilled workers in general would tend to not benefit.

And no that is not what I am saying. I am saying if restricting non-citizens would help citizens who are already rather poor, then restrict non-citizens.


Now you are just contradicting yourself. The demand for low skilled job in the US has been diminishing gradually, leaving a gap that illegal immigrants fill. Now low skill workers might not benefit directly but the prices of groceries and services remain cheap. I don't want to repeat myself but in that case, you might as well advocate against globalisation and free market economies.
 
     
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Post: 40263695_47 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:18 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:18 am
 
"xXJack of SpadesXx"


people like me bring up the overwhelming evidence like 36 Billion dollars of tax payer money annually being spent on illegal immigration problems as just racist garbage. I've debated him on this before and he's an absolutely pathetic excuse for a human being. The crux of his counter-arguments are calling me a racist and a nationalist because I put my fellow Americans needs before those just coming here for a free ride on our educational and health care systems. Pay no attention to him he is not worth your time


I'm not sure if that is racist garbage, but that's a biased organization with an obvious agenda with shitty sources. As references they quote their own articles. The only remotely valid references are studies and paperwork from rice professor made 14 years ago, barely mentioned in the paper.

Check this research out, it is VERY well documented with a lot of references http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf

Care to elaborate who are those who come to the US for a free ride on educational and health care system? I don't want to assume you are talking about illegal immigrants or 'most'.

If you want more credibility you should get reliable sources and stop ranting and making vague generalizations and accusations.
     
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Post: 40263695_48 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:27 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:27 am
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"


I was trying to make it clear why those were different.


Yes of course they are different,
To install robotic arms in production lines and other manufacturing process not only means more competition between workers but no competition at all. A robotic arm will substitute a worker and will hurt the Americans who did similar jobs.

Outsourcing not only means more competition, but the complete dismantling of a business area, taking it to another country. Which means that you have to compite with outside minimun wages (which are lower than any illegal immigrant gets payed under the table). This will hurt American workers and also the wages are spent in another country.

But they can all be stopped by the government as well.


They can be stopped by restricting citizens who they are supposed to not go around restricting.'

Edit: That is, they aren't supposed to go around restricting citizens for other citizens benefit.


Yeah, so illegal immigrants help business men, gives them cheap labor for them to have an edge, therefore expanding themselves and keeping their prices at a reasonable amount of money.
Roughly speaking everyone benefits from this except the citizen that 'lost' their job. Isn't it that what you are saying?


Well besides those who lose their jobs, an increased supply of low skilled workers decreases wages for low skilled workers in general. So low skilled workers in general would tend to not benefit.

And no that is not what I am saying. I am saying if restricting non-citizens would help citizens who are already rather poor, then restrict non-citizens.


Now you are just contradicting yourself. The demand for low skilled job in the US has been diminishing gradually, leaving a gap that illegal immigrants fill. Now low skill workers might not benefit directly but the prices of groceries and services remain cheap. I don't want to repeat myself but in that case, you might as well advocate against globalisation and free market economies.


If the demand has been diminishing, that does not leave a gap. That leaves a surplus of that type of worker.

And my point is those other things require different measures to restrict, measures that I think go beyond what a government should do.
 
     
Dream Avi
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Post: 40263695_49 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:29 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:29 am
 
"Dr_Congressman"
"Harvested Sorrow"
"Dr_Congressman"
racist crap!


Explain your reasoning before making such a ridiculous accusation, please.


Not ridiculous at all, and it said in the thread title one or the other so I picked that one.

My reasoning is that there isn't any reason to not want other people to come into our country besides racist ones, however they by be veiled.


but my issue isn't with them as people my problem is, is that they want to be treated equal. so shouldn't they pay taxes like us.? being equal should also mean they deal with the same issues we have to ((govrnment issues that is))
     

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Post: 40263695_50 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:38 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:38 am
"Ares - Greek God of War"
"Dark Lord Drake"
I think our immigration laws should reflect what is best for our current citizens. If that entails keeping cheaper labor out of the country, then so be it. We have no obligation as a nation to do what is best for the citizens of another nation.


DEY TUKK R JURBS!!!

I speak from experience. scream
 
     

This is my operating system.

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CrazyDave55811
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Post: 40263695_51 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 am
 
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"


They can be stopped by restricting citizens who they are supposed to not go around restricting.'

Edit: That is, they aren't supposed to go around restricting citizens for other citizens benefit.


Yeah, so illegal immigrants help business men, gives them cheap labor for them to have an edge, therefore expanding themselves and keeping their prices at a reasonable amount of money.
Roughly speaking everyone benefits from this except the citizen that 'lost' their job. Isn't it that what you are saying?


Well besides those who lose their jobs, an increased supply of low skilled workers decreases wages for low skilled workers in general. So low skilled workers in general would tend to not benefit.

And no that is not what I am saying. I am saying if restricting non-citizens would help citizens who are already rather poor, then restrict non-citizens.


Now you are just contradicting yourself. The demand for low skilled job in the US has been diminishing gradually, leaving a gap that illegal immigrants fill. Now low skill workers might not benefit directly but the prices of groceries and services remain cheap. I don't want to repeat myself but in that case, you might as well advocate against globalisation and free market economies.


If the demand has been diminishing, that does not leave a gap. That leaves a surplus of that type of worker.

And my point is those other things require different measures to restrict, measures that I think go beyond what a government should do.


Sorry i didn't make myself clear. I refer to demand as in the a citizens demanding a low skilled job.
     
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Post: 40263695_52 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:48 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:48 am
"Tifa-Tastic"
"Dr_Congressman"
"Harvested Sorrow"
"Dr_Congressman"
racist crap!


Explain your reasoning before making such a ridiculous accusation, please.


Not ridiculous at all, and it said in the thread title one or the other so I picked that one.

My reasoning is that there isn't any reason to not want other people to come into our country besides racist ones, however they by be veiled.


but my issue isn't with them as people my problem is, is that they want to be treated equal. so shouldn't they pay taxes like us.? being equal should also mean they deal with the same issues we have to ((govrnment issues that is))


Aren't they demanding precisely that?
 
     
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Post: 40263695_53 created on Tue May 13, 2008 1:00 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:00 am
 
Most immigration laws are designed not with the intent to stop illegal immigration or to preserve national sovereignty for its citizens, but as a smoke screen. These laws they have now are more concerned with demonizing a set group of people will such offensive terms as illegal aliens and invaders than stopping the problem chiefly because doing so would be hurting the economic strength of the U.S. This nation has never not had an illegal or quazi-legal labor force. Its this nation's life blood. As much as this is true, openly admitting this would be doing what sociologists call returning a guilty verdict against itself, so what it does is use racial tools to dehumanize these people. Until the U.S. begins to look at itself seriously and actually seek to end its inhuman treatment of undocumented and other ethnic minorities, then this problem will continue in the same ebb-and-flow fashion it has since the beginning of the 20th century.
     
Thou art based and debauched as can be
and the knight with his valor bravely unfurled
now hurls his gauntlet at thee

My destiny calls and I go
And the wild winds of fortune shall carry me onward, wither so ever they blow
Onward to glory I go
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Post: 40263695_54 created on Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 am
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"
"Deute"
"Dark Lord Drake"


They can be stopped by restricting citizens who they are supposed to not go around restricting.'

Edit: That is, they aren't supposed to go around restricting citizens for other citizens benefit.


Yeah, so illegal immigrants help business men, gives them cheap labor for them to have an edge, therefore expanding themselves and keeping their prices at a reasonable amount of money.
Roughly speaking everyone benefits from this except the citizen that 'lost' their job. Isn't it that what you are saying?


Well besides those who lose their jobs, an increased supply of low skilled workers decreases wages for low skilled workers in general. So low skilled workers in general would tend to not benefit.

And no that is not what I am saying. I am saying if restricting non-citizens would help citizens who are already rather poor, then restrict non-citizens.


Now you are just contradicting yourself. The demand for low skilled job in the US has been diminishing gradually, leaving a gap that illegal immigrants fill. Now low skill workers might not benefit directly but the prices of groceries and services remain cheap. I don't want to repeat myself but in that case, you might as well advocate against globalisation and free market economies.


If the demand has been diminishing, that does not leave a gap. That leaves a surplus of that type of worker.

And my point is those other things require different measures to restrict, measures that I think go beyond what a government should do.


Sorry i didn't make myself clear. I refer to demand as in the a citizens demanding a low skilled job.


Well of course it will make citizens want low skill jobs less because they're getting paid less. That does not mean they suddenly get jobs.
 
     
Dream Avi
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Post: 40263695_55 created on Tue May 13, 2008 7:06 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:06 am
 
I'm tired of people talking about inmigration here.
     
Julieta
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Post: 40263695_56 created on Tue May 13, 2008 5:25 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:25 pm
"Julieta"
I'm tired of people talking about inmigration here.


Yeah, 'inmigration' is dumb. Well blow me down. I yam what I yam.
 
     
Ares - Greek God of War
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Post: 40263695_57 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:01 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:01 pm
 
I was raised in El Paso Texas, Iv seen first hand what Illeagle imagration does to the fabric of a comunity. Let me get this straight, I dont care who you are, I dont care what race you are, I dont care what creed you are, be here leagaly. If you are not, to me you are a criminal and not to ever be trusted. You dont respect our laws, culture, or soverenty, so why the hell should I treat any illegal with respect. Now there are ecceptions, I have a guy in my unit who emegrated to the US from Equador with his parents, he learned English, and at 18 he joined up. In my book, if you are willing to fight and die at my side in defence of my country, then thats just as good as a green card.
     

Loken7
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Post: 40263695_58 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:04 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:04 pm
"Loken7"
I was raised in El Paso Texas, Iv seen first hand what Illeagle imagration does to the fabric of a comunity. Let me get this straight, I dont care who you are, I dont care what race you are, I dont care what creed you are, be here leagaly. If you are not, to me you are a criminal and not to ever be trusted. You dont respect our laws, culture, or soverenty, so why the hell should I treat any illegal with respect. Now there are ecceptions, I have a guy in my unit who emegrated to the US from Equador with his parents, he learned English, and at 18 he joined up. In my book, if you are willing to fight and die at my side in defence of my country, then thats just as good as a green card.

1.) I will respect these so called laws when this nation begins to respect the laws they made first.

2.) I dont see how fighting for one's country makes anyone more American. If this is the case, then whites should hardly be viewed as American, as minorities have fought a majority of the wars this nation became involved in, like WW I, WW II, and the Vietnam War.
 
     
Thou art based and debauched as can be
and the knight with his valor bravely unfurled
now hurls his gauntlet at thee

My destiny calls and I go
And the wild winds of fortune shall carry me onward, wither so ever they blow
Onward to glory I go
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Post: 40263695_59 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:59 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:59 pm
 
"Riviera de la Mancha"
"Loken7"
I was raised in El Paso Texas, Iv seen first hand what Illeagle imagration does to the fabric of a comunity. Let me get this straight, I dont care who you are, I dont care what race you are, I dont care what creed you are, be here leagaly. If you are not, to me you are a criminal and not to ever be trusted. You dont respect our laws, culture, or soverenty, so why the hell should I treat any illegal with respect. Now there are ecceptions, I have a guy in my unit who emegrated to the US from Equador with his parents, he learned English, and at 18 he joined up. In my book, if you are willing to fight and die at my side in defence of my country, then thats just as good as a green card.

1.) I will respect these so called laws when this nation begins to respect the laws they made first.

Where the heck did this come from? You sure seem to have a heck of a conspiracy theory going--care to share it so I can have some target practice?
     
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