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Select poll option that suits you most closely:

I am with Ben Stein who is a genius. 0.12738853503185 12.7% [ 40 ]
I am with Dawkins who is brilliant! 0.28343949044586 28.3% [ 89 ]
Darwinism is a foggy working hypothesis. 0.063694267515924 6.4% [ 20 ]
There is no academic freedom anymore. 0.14649681528662 14.6% [ 46 ]
I evolved from a cluster of cells that emerged from a pokey-ball. 0.37898089171975 37.9% [ 119 ]
Total Votes:[ 314 ]
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Sorry to all my friends, but I found Expelled to be quite compelling. It is not what I had expected based on the previews. It was not a teen angst rebellion film as portrayed by Ben Stein. It was a documentary with superb art direction.

I was most bemused by Dawkins who told Ben Stein of that he too could possibly explore the idea of an intelligent designer of earth life, by extra-terrestrial super beings whom themselves had evolved by Darwinian evolution.

The most fascinating portion to me personally were the graphic animation of cell life. I was amazed by the intricacies of transcription and translation; production of proteins, movement into and out of the cell plus all the movement that occurs inside the cell; the various organelles. In Darwin's time, cells were thought to be much more simple than science has described them today. If a cell was considered like a Buick in Darwin's time, today it is thought of as more like a galaxy. eek

Darwinian evolutionary theory is a working hypothesis. After viewing this film I no longer have a problem with Intelligent Design being used as a working hypothesis either. I don't see the conflict anymore.

No matter what your thoughts are about evolution the film is a good starting place for the discussion including the refutation of this film. In my opinion it facilitates a thoughtful discussion of science which is missing in most American homes.

Any comments? Voija? Iguana? (VoijaRisa has posted a lot of good information on pages 17 and 18 of this thread)

Here is a link to the people most interested in the film: DISCOVERY INSTITUTE
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Lady has some comments!! 4laugh

I saw the documentary as well (though I was not surprised by its style blaugh ). I took notes to boot. xd

Stein is trying to point out the problems arising (just like back in Nazi Germany and the eugenics movement) where freedom is being surpressed by Darwinists. I myself can attest to this. I had teachers scream at me that 1.) I was stupid to believe in God and 2.) that Evolution, and that alone, is responsible for the creation of life. He is trying to encourage discussion of the issue, and is not a mere advocate of Intelligent Design. "Beware of the sound of one hand clapping -- there's always another argument." I'm proud of him for participating in this effort. 3nodding

I also was amazed by the computer animation of the inside of the cell. I just took a university course on biology and I was very impressed. "Like a nanofacotry" indeed. eek

I also thought it was hilarious that all those brilliant teachers and scientists, including Dawkins and Crick (who was involved in the discovery/model of DNA) think that aliens are responsible for life on earth. The crystal theory (the idea that molecules were brought into alignment by crystal growth and mutation) was funny too. xd

Well, if anyone wants to know more about the movie, I have my notes ready, so just PM me. 3nodding
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.
mrsculedhel
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.


If you can listen to Ben Stein drone on you can read a post as long as I made, rather than just the first two sentences.

Of course you and your accounts don't know what Occam's Razor is do you.
I saw it an hour ago or so, mainly because my dad wanted me to see it.

And I... just can't seem to care about our origins at this point. Some would call me extremely dense for asking this, most likely, but I never understood why our origins were so critical.

Maybe someone would like to explain it to me. Because I've yet to find any significance with regards to life today.
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mrsculedhel
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.


You tell him/her(?) mrsculedhel. xd

Theology is the study of God. Theo = god and ology = study of. Intelligent Design is just a working theory for biology (study of life) where you presume intelligence (alien, divine or otherwise) is involved and thus there is order and reason for/in each part found. Nothing that is really threatening ... but of course the point of the movie is that science needs to be open to all questions, and in American no one should suffer for their point of view. sweatdrop
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The true point of the film was not to encourage Intelligent design to be further explored, but instead to realize that suppressing the study of any non-confirmed theory, whether one thinks them completely ludicrous or not, is something that should never be done. ID is simply one of the things being largely surpressed at the moment despite it being unable to be proved 100% wrong or right.

He had some very valid points and I do hope that the scientific community doesn't continue this path of denying new idea's lest science itself come to a grounding halt should this thought process continue.

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Lady_Imrahil
mrsculedhel
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.


You tell him/her(?) mrsculedhel. xd

Theology is the study of God. Theo = god and ology = study of. Intelligent Design is just a working theory for biology (study of life) where you presume intelligence (alien, divine or otherwise) is involved and thus there is order and reason for/in each part found. Nothing that is really threatening ... but of course the point of the movie is that science needs to be open to all questions, and in American no one should suffer for their point of view. sweatdrop


That's not science, that wildly open ended speculation.
And again, Occam's Razor.

EDIT: Im a she. Anyone who can't tell by now is in willful denial.
Lady_Imrahil's avatar

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I Director
I saw it an hour ago or so, mainly because my dad wanted me to see it.

And I... just can't seem to care about our origins at this point. Some would call me extremely dense for asking this, most likely, but I never understood why our origins were so critical.

Maybe someone would like to explain it to me. Because I've yet to find any significance with regards to life today.


The movie wasn't about our origins -- it is about having the academic freedom to search scientifically any theory you want to explore. Remember the people he interviewed at the beginning who were fired? Or the comparison to the Berlin Wall?
I lost a lot of respect for stein for this film. I do think that Creationism should be taught in science (maybe) but saying that it's the soul reason of life is (to quote Penn & Teller) BULLSHIT. After learning that Stein was a speech writer for Nixon and that he is a Nixon sympathizer, I now don't care what he says EVER.
Rao the Zen Android
mrsculedhel
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.


If you can listen to Ben Stein drone on you can read a post as long as I made, rather than just the first two sentences.

Of course you and your accounts don't know what Occam's Razor is do you.


I think only you know what it is. You're that special.
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Rao the Zen Android
Lady_Imrahil

Theology is the study of God. Theo = god and ology = study of. Intelligent Design is just a working theory for biology (study of life) where you presume intelligence (alien, divine or otherwise) is involved and thus there is order and reason for/in each part found. Nothing that is really threatening ... but of course the point of the movie is that science needs to be open to all questions, and in American no one should suffer for their point of view. sweatdrop


That's not science, that wildly open ended speculation.
And again, Occam's Razor.


Dawkins didn't seem to think so. Its just allowing an idea to exist as a working hypothesis.
Rao the Zen Android
mrsculedhel
Rao the Zen Android
Intelligent Design in terms of coming from supernatural entities does not belong in science class, period. That's what Theology is for.

Duh.

Intelligent Design in terms of scientific others designing is some Occam's Razor s**t.

Congrats on really thinking this through guyz.
Tell it to the mirror Rao. Your post makes no sense. ID is not about theology at all. I thought it was until I viewed the film. ID is not the same as creationism and is not proposing an Abrahamic God as the creator. Even Dawkins posited a designer for genetic earth life. But that would require that the person reading posts has learned to actually read.


If you can listen to Ben Stein drone on you can read a post as long as I made, rather than just the first two sentences.

Of course you and your accounts don't know what Occam's Razor is do you.
No, you don't know what or who Occam was. He was a Franciscan monk.
Lady_Imrahil
Rao the Zen Android
Lady_Imrahil

Theology is the study of God. Theo = god and ology = study of. Intelligent Design is just a working theory for biology (study of life) where you presume intelligence (alien, divine or otherwise) is involved and thus there is order and reason for/in each part found. Nothing that is really threatening ... but of course the point of the movie is that science needs to be open to all questions, and in American no one should suffer for their point of view. sweatdrop


That's not science, that wildly open ended speculation.
And again, Occam's Razor.


Dawkins didn't seem to think so. Its just allowing an idea to exist as a working hypothesis.


Why should I care what Dawkins thinks?
I'm not saying the idea shouldn't be allowed to exist, I'm an agnostic myself, I'm open to all possibilities. But there's a time and place for that sort of speculation. And it's not science class. And it's not science.

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