I Have A Not-So-Sudden Interest In Aspergers Syndrome

[AliKat1988]

Shanovale

AliKat1988

Shanovale

AliKat1988

Shanovale

As for trying to help, What if the person in question does not NEED help...What if they have accepted whatever they may be afflicted with as a part of themselves,

If they have a disability and are diagnosed and acknowledge then the issue is more about amount of help and when they need it rather than whether their condition negatively affects them. Although quite different from the issue we are discussing here, you might want to consider the concept of anosognosia, since accepting the disorder as normal and healthy can be a problem in itself.

Before you quote me, Can you please quote the entire paragraph, And not stop at a comma? I'd appreciate it...

I get why you object and I will clarify that I regard the portion before it only slightly relevant and the part after as dubious. I also mistook the comma for a period due to the capitalization that followed.

That is a quirk of mine, Please accept my apology if it confused you, As it usually does confuse people but i can't help it.

AliKat1988

Of course, I do agree that it will only create problems if you try to 'help' them without trying to understand or accommodate them, but that just goes back to realizing that you need to know when and how to intervene. If you were going to 'help' someone who did not request it, I would think it might be best to ask the person if they would like to discuss how to handle a specific problem that they are dealing with that is exacerbated further by their condition-even if they do not out right express their difficulty. After all, some times people who know they are struggling try to look stronger than they really are.

I'm aware that people try to look stronger than they are, And attempt to deal with their problems themselves...God knows I know. > 3 >;;;
But there really isn't anything people can do until they are ready to ACCEPT help, And ask for it, That isn't going to have an adverse effect on them...I'd rather simply have the person know that I'm there if they want to talk about it, Or want help, Than constantly harass them. This is what I'm referring to when I say it's something I dislike. If you try to force your helpfulness on people, They're just going to lash out or breakdown, And I don't want anyone to feel that pressure pushing down on them. The point is for you to be there for them when they are ready for your help, Not to constantly barrage them with it like a mouse castle under siege by a cat-apault...Anything else is none of our buisness, And is for that person's family to deal with.

On that point I do agree. It was not clear to me whether you were dismissing offering help without prompting or if it was just specific types of unsolicited help. For me I think help from non-professionals should aim at making the disabled person more comfortable with seeking help instead of being a project. It would be pointless to nag someone about getting help unless you are close enough to the person and you know how to make it work. Of course, I should also specify that I think that it is also best to be familiar with the person before offering help-not necessarily be a close friend just a very good acquaintance

[CH1YO]

Shanovale

Are you not listening?

I am reading the words that are written, not ones which I make up for myself. You should try it.

Shanovale

I'm telling you it is not your place to FORCE help upon somebody!

I'll tell you then that it is not your place to design space rockets.

Shanovale

You can't MAKE someone accept help, It has to be their choice, And all harassing them about it is going to do is make them retreat from the prospect of help if they are indeed the kind of person who ISN'T happy, And needs help, But refuses it.

Agreed.

Shanovale

Them wanting to deal with their problems themselves, If they are suffering for it is one thing.

A shame is what it is.

Shanovale

But i'm referring to trying to force help on people who are actually leading happy and functional lives.

In the strictest sense that is impossible.

[Valeria Aconite]

CH1YO

Shanovale

Are you not listening?

I am reading the words that are written, not ones which I make up for myself. You should try it.

Shanovale

I'm telling you it is not your place to FORCE help upon somebody!

I'll tell you then that it is not your place to design space rockets.

Shanovale

You can't MAKE someone accept help, It has to be their choice, And all harassing them about it is going to do is make them retreat from the prospect of help if they are indeed the kind of person who ISN'T happy, And needs help, But refuses it.

Agreed.

Shanovale

Them wanting to deal with their problems themselves, If they are suffering for it is one thing.

A shame is what it is.

Shanovale

But i'm referring to trying to force help on people who are actually leading happy and functional lives.

In the strictest sense that is impossible.

It seems you've lost all grasp on the subject, And are merely attempting to troll...In which case, I'd refer you to the woman who started this thread.

[CH1YO]

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

Are you not listening?

I am reading the words that are written, not ones which I make up for myself. You should try it.

Shanovale

I'm telling you it is not your place to FORCE help upon somebody!

I'll tell you then that it is not your place to design space rockets.

Shanovale

You can't MAKE someone accept help, It has to be their choice, And all harassing them about it is going to do is make them retreat from the prospect of help if they are indeed the kind of person who ISN'T happy, And needs help, But refuses it.

Agreed.

Shanovale

Them wanting to deal with their problems themselves, If they are suffering for it is one thing.

A shame is what it is.

Shanovale

But i'm referring to trying to force help on people who are actually leading happy and functional lives.

In the strictest sense that is impossible.

It seems you've lost all grasp on the subject, And are merely attempting to troll...In which case, I'd refer you to the woman who started this thread.

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

[Valeria Aconite]

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

I've just dropped the subject is all. I have more important things to do than waste my time with you when my words are clearly falling upon deaf ears. I've heard all you have to say, And accept your views, I'm just dissapointed that you yourself don't have an open mind and feel that trolling is your only resort.

I won't be replying to your childishness anymore, Have a pleasant day.

[MachineMuse]

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

Might help if you were less adversarial about it blaugh

[Valeria Aconite]

MachineMuse

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

Might help if you were less adversarial about it blaugh

<3

[CH1YO]

Shanovale

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

I've just dropped the subject is all. I have more important things to do than waste my time with you when my words are clearly falling upon deaf ears. I've heard all you have to say, And accept your views, I'm just dissapointed that you yourself don't have an open mind and feel that trolling is your only resort.

I won't be replying to your childishness anymore, Have a pleasant day.

If you wish to take the moral high ground and to try to save face then by all means do so, I cannot and would not want to stop you, but be gracious about it. If you are going to try to claw back some petty victory through dishonest tactics I will hold you to account for it, it is unacceptable conduct and frankly something that you should be ashamed at yourself for resorting to.

[CH1YO]

MachineMuse

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

Might help if you were less adversarial about it blaugh

Possibly but then one would expect the accusation to occur before a person had played their hand out.

[MachineMuse]

CH1YO

MachineMuse

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

Might help if you were less adversarial about it blaugh

Possibly but then one would expect the accusation to occur before a person had played their hand out.

it seems clear to me that you are talking past each other. You are disagreeing on which arguments to use, but the implications are basically the same. Yet by disagreeing in that way you both assume the other is actually disagreeing with the bottom line. Which obviously doesn't make sense. So when one person gives up, it seems like they are defeated, but actually there wasn't anything to defeat.

[CH1YO]

MachineMuse

CH1YO

MachineMuse

CH1YO

It seems strange to me that I apparently only start trolling once the party I am debating with has exhausted to no avail their generic responses. I might even go so far as to suggest that ad hominem debate tactics such as these are logically fallacious and have no proper place in this forum.

Might help if you were less adversarial about it blaugh

Possibly but then one would expect the accusation to occur before a person had played their hand out.

it seems clear to me that you are talking past each other. You are disagreeing on which arguments to use, but the implications are basically the same. Yet by disagreeing in that way you both assume the other is actually disagreeing with the bottom line. Which obviously doesn't make sense. So when one person gives up, it seems like they are defeated, but actually there wasn't anything to defeat.

The best games are those in which the victor and the vanquished have fun.

[Rose die Valkyrie]

I'm highly distrustful of the psychiatric field and those in it.

You would be shocked by the amount of people misdiagnosed, either from gross negligence or more importantly by doctors so they can prescribe medication that they get a cut from the pharmaceutical companies for selling.

The medical system in the US is a business, not a charity. It's about profit, not healing.

I just have to raise my eye-brow at the Asperger's epidemic a bit.

Sure, I'm certain some of these kids are somewhere on the autisitic scale, but honestly?

It just seems like an easy way for dysfunctional youths who don't know how to socialize to be labeled as "special" and encouraged to have a victim mentality and to force people to pity them.

I am good friends with a person who's been diagnosed with Asperger's actually and I've been able to tell from day one that he was different. He actually faces a lot of crap from other people because he doesn't understand social cues and comes off as rather strange to most people. People would call him "retarded" and all kinds of things. That's to me is a sign that he genuinely does have an innately different way of functioning from most people.

That being said, I can't count the number of times I've been having a conversation with someone where they come off as completely normal, charming and funny even, and then all of sudden they mention they have Asperger's.

It's obvious to me, they understand the social cues I've been giving them and have even been giving their own cues in return, they've clearly demonstrated they have no problem interacting without any issues. I understand that there's a spectrum and some people do fall on the lighter end of it where it doesn't impact their lives as much, but when I ask these people what it's like to have Asperger's they say "Well, it just means I'm really shy and I don't like most people and I'm really artistic and creative and smart and special and people are just really jealous of that so they bully me and that's why I hate them and I don't know I'm just like anyone else just a little different".

It just really comes across the wrong way to me.

I could very well be a terrible person for questioning a person's diagnosis but I just can't shake that nagging impression I get from all these people. They don't even describe themselves properly as disabled, it's always that they're just too special and brilliant for the world. It's kinda nuts.

I don't know, like I said, I don't trust psychiatric professionals and their motivations and neither do I trust parents who want to explain away their child's social ineptitude as being a special gift.

[Moonlit Lilith]

Rose die Valkyrie

I'm highly distrustful of the psychiatric field and those in it.

You would be shocked by the amount of people misdiagnosed, either from gross negligence or more importantly by doctors so they can prescribe medication that they get a cut from the pharmaceutical companies for selling.

The medical system in the US is a business, not a charity. It's about profit, not healing.

I just have to raise my eye-brow at the Asperger's epidemic a bit.

Sure, I'm certain some of these kids are somewhere on the autisitic scale, but honestly?

It just seems like an easy way for dysfunctional youths who don't know how to socialize to be labeled as "special" and encouraged to have a victim mentality and to force people to pity them.

I am good friends with a person who's been diagnosed with Asperger's actually and I've been able to tell from day one that he was different. He actually faces a lot of crap from other people because he doesn't understand social cues and comes off as rather strange to most people. People would call him "retarded" and all kinds of things. That's to me is a sign that he genuinely does have an innately different way of functioning from most people.

That being said, I can't count the number of times I've been having a conversation with someone where they come off as completely normal, charming and funny even, and then all of sudden they mention they have Asperger's.

It's obvious to me, they understand the social cues I've been giving them and have even been giving their own cues in return, they've clearly demonstrated they have no problem interacting without any issues. I understand that there's a spectrum and some people do fall on the lighter end of it where it doesn't impact their lives as much, but when I ask these people what it's like to have Asperger's they say "Well, it just means I'm really shy and I don't like most people and I'm really artistic and creative and smart and special and people are just really jealous of that so they bully me and that's why I hate them and I don't know I'm just like anyone else just a little different".

It just really comes across the wrong way to me.

I could very well be a terrible person for questioning a person's diagnosis but I just can't shake that nagging impression I get from all these people. They don't even describe themselves properly as disabled, it's always that they're just too special and brilliant for the world. It's kinda nuts.

I don't know, like I said, I don't trust psychiatric professionals and their motivations and neither do I trust parents who want to explain away their child's social ineptitude as being a special gift.

Hello. And I'd like to say that what you speak is true. It's not that they are 'disabled' or 'retarded'. It's just that they're different. And there is nothing wrong with that. And it's true: Doctors get things wrong too. And whats the point of giving medication to someone who may only have problems with shyness or interacting with others? Or that they have in interest in certain things?

It's crazy.

[Dyemanic]

My cousin has that disorder. He isn't the friendliest, but the real fact is.. he is. His vibe gives off that "your bothering me" When i pick on him, he never looks at me.. but he smiles, so its fine. I accepted my cousin for what he is. 21 and takes a week of four to five classes in college while balancing a part time job and free time with friends. The thing is.. He never got the help to be at the point he is at My uncle and aunt didn't look into his problem because ignored the difficulty of it.

So my point, the deeper their disability is, the more help they need to receive.

[nitznitz]

My fiance has Asperer's too(or PDD, don't know already, but he's oficially diagnosed with a light form of autism), and I love him the way he is, and don't force him to get "cured" or whatever, the same way he's against me drugging myself with Phenethylamines because I have ADHD. One of my close female friends has both Asperger's and ADHD, and ironically, she looks and dresses like the most "normal" one from my group of friends(including me, my fiance, my dyslexic BFF and her).

I think that the only "treatment" AS people should get is the basics of social codes and 'how not to offend people'(which are my fiance's greatest challenges, since his mouth has absolutely no filter whatsoever) to keep them out of trouble. That Thomas dude had less tact than the average high-functioning autistic. emotion_sweatdrop