I Have A Not-So-Sudden Interest In Aspergers Syndrome

[CH1YO]

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

I would give you a proper reply, If i wasn't so sure you're only on this thread to be argumentative because you have nothing better to do...So i'll just say this. I accept other people's ideals, But does this mean i should follow them? Take Racism, Sexism, Or Homophobia as Ideals...I take it you accept their views as being their own personal opinions, But do you agree with them? Are you like a sheep that follows any belief that you are presented with? I'm saying that although i accept that people do it, And have good intentions in mind, I don't agree with that specific reaction to seeing those with disabilities and i'm in no way telling you to have the same views as i do on the subject.

If I'm only on this threat to be argumentative it would be specifically because I have something better to do, invariably.Negative attitudes are not ideals. That much should be obvious. I am willing and inclined to accept a person for the unique individual that they are and even to extend unconditional positive regard, pouring scorn upon a person's beliefs is not useful and to condemn them for trying to help should be severely punishable.

Does this mean that you are fine with things such as woman beating, Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, And applaud such people for being as such? What of rapists and *****, Do they also warrant your praise? Everyone is a unique individual, Wether you accept it or not isn't worth a damn, As it is a matter of fact. As for trying to help, What if the person in question does not NEED help...What if they have accepted whatever they may be afflicted with as a part of themselves, And all attempts to 'Help' the person that needs no help as there is nothing wrong with them, Result in upsetting the individual? Making them self concious, And destroying their confidence?

This is what i am referring to when i say i do not agree with it...Only in those situations. Trying to help those who need it, And openly accept it is one thing, But trying to help those who don't believe there is anything that they need help with is a different matter entirely...It's akin to trying to 'Help' a gay man, Because he's not straight...It is an act of discrimination, As accidental as it may be, And i can't abide it.

In the particular example of ****** I have helped people immensely through provision of unconditional positive regard. It is a good thing, always.

People often do not recognise that they need help until it is rather too late, why you would encourage such hardship is beyond me.

It is only a hardship if you're suffering for it...I'm referring to those who have accepted it as a part of who they are, And live happy lives, Unhindered by their so called disabilities...You wish to help those that need no help, That are happy and don't even consider their illnesses as anything abnormal. All those that seek to 'Help' those who are comfortable with their disabilities, Who are happy and need no help, Accomplish? Is practically telling them "There is something wrong with you, You have an illness, You're abnormal." When they are perfectly happy with who they are, And how they live their lives, And don't need self righteous fools telling them they need help. All it does is crushes their self confidence, And i don't believe you're even listening to what i'm saying. And on the example of ******? I think you're confusing those who actually commit the atrocity of child molestation with the victims of child molestation...Unless you're saying that child molestation is totally fine.

I think it probably best we cease this conversation, Considering you don't even know what you're trying to defend yourself against.

I don't think you understand the concept of positive regard, it does not involve regarding a person negatively.
I have helped molester and molestee in the same capacity, though never with individuals who have known one another as such. Why would I confuse the two?

I am not trying to defend myself here, I was not aware that I was supposed to.

[Valeria Aconite]

CH1YO

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

I would give you a proper reply, If i wasn't so sure you're only on this thread to be argumentative because you have nothing better to do...So i'll just say this. I accept other people's ideals, But does this mean i should follow them? Take Racism, Sexism, Or Homophobia as Ideals...I take it you accept their views as being their own personal opinions, But do you agree with them? Are you like a sheep that follows any belief that you are presented with? I'm saying that although i accept that people do it, And have good intentions in mind, I don't agree with that specific reaction to seeing those with disabilities and i'm in no way telling you to have the same views as i do on the subject.

If I'm only on this threat to be argumentative it would be specifically because I have something better to do, invariably.Negative attitudes are not ideals. That much should be obvious. I am willing and inclined to accept a person for the unique individual that they are and even to extend unconditional positive regard, pouring scorn upon a person's beliefs is not useful and to condemn them for trying to help should be severely punishable.

Does this mean that you are fine with things such as woman beating, Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, And applaud such people for being as such? What of rapists and *****, Do they also warrant your praise? Everyone is a unique individual, Wether you accept it or not isn't worth a damn, As it is a matter of fact. As for trying to help, What if the person in question does not NEED help...What if they have accepted whatever they may be afflicted with as a part of themselves, And all attempts to 'Help' the person that needs no help as there is nothing wrong with them, Result in upsetting the individual? Making them self concious, And destroying their confidence?

This is what i am referring to when i say i do not agree with it...Only in those situations. Trying to help those who need it, And openly accept it is one thing, But trying to help those who don't believe there is anything that they need help with is a different matter entirely...It's akin to trying to 'Help' a gay man, Because he's not straight...It is an act of discrimination, As accidental as it may be, And i can't abide it.

In the particular example of ****** I have helped people immensely through provision of unconditional positive regard. It is a good thing, always.

People often do not recognise that they need help until it is rather too late, why you would encourage such hardship is beyond me.

It is only a hardship if you're suffering for it...I'm referring to those who have accepted it as a part of who they are, And live happy lives, Unhindered by their so called disabilities...You wish to help those that need no help, That are happy and don't even consider their illnesses as anything abnormal. All those that seek to 'Help' those who are comfortable with their disabilities, Who are happy and need no help, Accomplish? Is practically telling them "There is something wrong with you, You have an illness, You're abnormal." When they are perfectly happy with who they are, And how they live their lives, And don't need self righteous fools telling them they need help. All it does is crushes their self confidence, And i don't believe you're even listening to what i'm saying. And on the example of ******? I think you're confusing those who actually commit the atrocity of child molestation with the victims of child molestation...Unless you're saying that child molestation is totally fine.

I think it probably best we cease this conversation, Considering you don't even know what you're trying to defend yourself against.

I don't think you understand the concept of positive regard, it does not involve regarding a person negatively.
I have helped molester and molestee in the same capacity, though never with individuals who have known one another as such. Why would I confuse the two?

I am not trying to defend myself here, I was not aware that I was supposed to.

Apologies for the late reply, As i was busy...In any case, I don't believe that YOU understand the concept of 'Respecting someone's wishes.'

If the person says they are happy, And say they need no help, Who are you to say otherwise? What buisness is it of yours? Should the time come where they need your help, Then they shall ask for it, Or express their torment in other such ways...If they are happy, And say there is nothing wrong with them, Then you have abolutely NO right to tell them that there is.

It is as though you feel their life is determined by your personal judgement, Which is something I abhor. Their life and how they live it is none of your buisness, You are not jesus christ superstar, And you are not a god. If they are suffering and ask you for your help, Help them. If they are living their life happily, Leave them alone. This is the point i'm trying to get across by phrasing it in many different ways, But you are not listening.

Drop this conversation, It's not worth your embarrassment.

[Major Lima Charlie]

CH1YO

Major Lima Charlie

CH1YO

Major Lima Charlie

CH1YO

I was expecting a filthy pun about half way through reading that.

More to the point nuance is a thing but I would have no objection to the order being reversed if that pleases you better.

Fair enough, but that doesn't change that it is rude to do so. I have an annoying habit of trying to help people with computer trouble when they don't particularly want it. I've gotten to the point where it's mostly in my head now, thankfully. Point being that my simply being helpful, when not asked, is tantamount to informing them that I don't believe that they can do it, or do it well, or do it fast enough, or what-have-you. It's rude.

Presumably you are not doing it as well as you might, have you considered changing your approach as opposed to abandoning people?

Is it abandonment if you respect their wishes?

I'd say no.

Their wishes that they have made known to you or the ones which you presume of them?

There is no wish until it is made known.

[Pawlas Cathena]

To me, trying to cure someone of AS is like trying to cure someone of being tall or Mexican or having hazel eyes. :/

[1012222345466778575765q]

Apparently we do need people to help us constantly. rolleyes

Aspergers is on the autism spectrum, meaning there are many degrees of how affected some people are by it. I'm high functioning, meaning that I'm barely affected by it at all. Hell I don't even think my diagnosis is correct...

No, we're not that different... Even if society makes us out to be. To answer your question, "help" should never be forced on anyone. Ever. I'm dealing with getting off my medication so I can join the military when I'm old enough and... I can't say its easy.

[1012222345466778575765q]

Shanovale

Personally, I understand exactly what you're talking about...It irritates me when people fuss over those with disabilities or illnesses that they were born with, Constantly drawing attention to what people percieve to be something that should be fixed, Without even consulting the person who's afflicted.

Wanting people to conform to their definition of 'Normal' is pathetic, And they should back the hell off if the person in question isn't bothered by it.

There is no normal really. Hell, there isn't any such thing as having a neurotypical brain. Is it not possible that everyone with a normal brain really has one really widespread mental condition?

[Manther]

I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I've heard the DSM-V will get rid of Asperger's Syndrome.

If they have Asperger's, most of the time I don't even know.

[MachineMuse]

Lillis Amaryllis

Who said anything about excluding? I'm saying to treat them like normal people. They need their space, not a bunch of doctors trying to cure them.

Oh, for Cyriss's sake, don't do that.

It's bad enough treating people who actually are normal like normal people. Now you want to put that on someone who has a pervasive development disorder?

I mean, maybe you are exceptionally nice and patient with everyone, but even with ADHD I occasionally run into significant problems with people 'treating me like a normal person'. At the very least, it's important to check expectations about what that person is going to be able to handle.

[MachineMuse]

Reevva

There is no normal really. Hell, there isn't any such thing as having a neurotypical brain. Is it not possible that everyone with a normal brain really has one really widespread mental condition?

This is obviously just my opinion, but don't let the autistic pride parade get to you. It is a 'disability' because it causes problems in normal society. As much as it's enticing to think about all the possibilities in a world adapted to your own special needs, the real world isn't and we have to deal with that. Sure, there's plenty of normal people who don't cope, and they have their reasons, but...

I guess I think of it this way. The interventions and medications and special diets and stuff that reduces the 'symptoms' is to help you fit into the society that you need. To 'fix' the incompatability rather than to fix you. On that note, I take my medication when I need to do something that would normally be abnormally difficult for me, and only then. I treat it as a prosthesis rather than some kind of personal identity issue. An extra tool that I happen to have lying around. In the same way, it might be helpful to think of the various treatments and assistive services for autism as prostheses - things that help you accomplish things in the real world, but that aren't necessarily part of your identity.

[1012222345466778575765q]

MachineMuse

Reevva

There is no normal really. Hell, there isn't any such thing as having a neurotypical brain. Is it not possible that everyone with a normal brain really has one really widespread mental condition?

This is obviously just my opinion, but don't let the autistic pride parade get to you. It is a 'disability' because it causes problems in normal society. As much as it's enticing to think about all the possibilities in a world adapted to your own special needs, the real world isn't and we have to deal with that. Sure, there's plenty of normal people who don't cope, and they have their reasons, but...

I guess I think of it this way. The interventions and medications and special diets and stuff that reduces the 'symptoms' is to help you fit into the society that you need. To 'fix' the incompatability rather than to fix you. On that note, I take my medication when I need to do something that would normally be abnormally difficult for me, and only then. I treat it as a prosthesis rather than some kind of personal identity issue.

If that makes any sense.

Yeah, I understand.

I still think it's like medicating people to fit into a ******** up not normal society. Think about it, what is normal? Who's to say what normal is and that it should be medicated.

[MachineMuse]

Reevva

Yeah, I understand.

I still think it's like medicating people to fit into a ******** up not normal society. Think about it, what is normal? Who's to say what normal is and that it should be medicated.

Well... the overwhelming majority of people are normal from a clinical perspective neutral I mean, that's pretty much the definition of normal. Although I have to say I'm really looking forward to the DSM-5 because it really is a huge improvement.

I think if there were a separate island where society was entirely people on the autism spectrum, or bipolar people, or people with ADHD or schizophrenia... well... first of all, it would be harder to survive, but none of these completely destroy a person's ability to understand where a problem is and work towards overcoming it. So society in that microcosm would adapt. How different would it be? What would be better? Worse? I think it would probably be better because there would be fewer conservatives, but that's obviously a biased personal opinion xd

For me personally, with ADHD, I need my medication to do things like long, boring assignments or projects. It's different with programming, because I get feedback at the push of a button and that keeps me going, but a math or English assignment, even though I'm good at them, is a momentous task.

In an ideal world, could I get away with not doing them, or with doing them in a way that caters to my cognitive layout? Sure. In the working world, will I? It depends on the job. In school? I can get extra time, but not exempted from doing them or special alternative assignments.

So, there you go - there's the answer to who says what needs to be medicated, at least in my case. Professors' expectations in school and employers' expectations in work are what dictate whether or not I need my medication. The only way 'normal' factors in, from my perspective, is that the expectations are drawn from what normal people can do easily without complaint.

[Serverus Snope]

I'm an aspie, but I dunno if I've had anyone try to "cure" me or something like that. The most special treatment I've had was social skills lessons (I dunno if those went anywhere though) and additional time on tests (that I never used.) I felt like I was blending in fine with the "normal people" until I actually started to observe my own behavior. Sure, people think I'm normal, but they don't know that I'm an "other" disguised as one of them. Yet strangely enough, I've still haven't to meet anyone that has reacted with hostility toward me having AS. Most are just surprised that I have it.

But still, not enough people know the damage that well-intentioned "helping" can cause. For example, it has led to Australians taking Aboriginal children from their families.

[CH1YO]

Shanovale

Apologies for the late reply, As i was busy...In any case, I don't believe that YOU understand the concept of 'Respecting someone's wishes.'

That is quite alright but a moot point.

Shanovale

If the person says they are happy, And say they need no help, Who are you to say otherwise? What buisness is it of yours? Should the time come where they need your help, Then they shall ask for it, Or express their torment in other such ways...If they are happy, And say there is nothing wrong with them, Then you have abolutely NO right to tell them that there is.

You may not realise this but people are prone to lying and to not ask for help. Of course I would not dream of telling a person there is something wrong with them; I accept people as unique individuals.

Shanovale

It is as though you feel their life is determined by your personal judgement, Which is something I abhor. Their life and how they live it is none of your buisness, You are not jesus christ superstar, And you are not a god. If they are suffering and ask you for your help, Help them. If they are living their life happily, Leave them alone. This is the point i'm trying to get across by phrasing it in many different ways, But you are not listening.

Firstly please do not judge me for things which you have said, that is hardly fair.

As I have made abundantly clear I accept people as unique individuals, I do not make it my business to judge people as you insist upon doing whilst maintaining it to be my sin.

I maintain, with regards to the bold text, as I did from the start that helping a person is preferable to social exclusion. It would be easy to segregate the population upon lines of perceived weakness but it is a process I want no part of.

Shanovale

Drop this conversation, It's not worth your embarrassment.

Don't worry I have been associated through conversation with much more embarrassing persons, I am quite robust enough to continue.

[CH1YO]

Major Lima Charlie

CH1YO

Major Lima Charlie

CH1YO

Major Lima Charlie

CH1YO

I was expecting a filthy pun about half way through reading that.

More to the point nuance is a thing but I would have no objection to the order being reversed if that pleases you better.

Fair enough, but that doesn't change that it is rude to do so. I have an annoying habit of trying to help people with computer trouble when they don't particularly want it. I've gotten to the point where it's mostly in my head now, thankfully. Point being that my simply being helpful, when not asked, is tantamount to informing them that I don't believe that they can do it, or do it well, or do it fast enough, or what-have-you. It's rude.

Presumably you are not doing it as well as you might, have you considered changing your approach as opposed to abandoning people?

Is it abandonment if you respect their wishes?

I'd say no.

Their wishes that they have made known to you or the ones which you presume of them?

There is no wish until it is made known.

A dream is a wish your heart makes, when you're fast asleep.

[AliKat1988]

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

CH1YO

Shanovale

Does this mean that you are fine with things such as woman beating, Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, And applaud such people for being as such? What of rapists and *****, Do they also warrant your praise? Everyone is a unique individual, Wether you accept it or not isn't worth a damn, As it is a matter of fact. As for trying to help, What if the person in question does not NEED help...What if they have accepted whatever they may be afflicted with as a part of themselves, And all attempts to 'Help' the person that needs no help as there is nothing wrong with them, Result in upsetting the individual? Making them self concious, And destroying their confidence?

This is what i am referring to when i say i do not agree with it...Only in those situations. Trying to help those who need it, And openly accept it is one thing, But trying to help those who don't believe there is anything that they need help with is a different matter entirely...It's akin to trying to 'Help' a gay man, Because he's not straight...It is an act of discrimination, As accidental as it may be, And i can't abide it.

In the particular example of ****** I have helped people immensely through provision of unconditional positive regard. It is a good thing, always.

People often do not recognise that they need help until it is rather too late, why you would encourage such hardship is beyond me.

It is only a hardship if you're suffering for it...I'm referring to those who have accepted it as a part of who they are, And live happy lives, Unhindered by their so called disabilities...You wish to help those that need no help, That are happy and don't even consider their illnesses as anything abnormal. All those that seek to 'Help' those who are comfortable with their disabilities, Who are happy and need no help, Accomplish? Is practically telling them "There is something wrong with you, You have an illness, You're abnormal." When they are perfectly happy with who they are, And how they live their lives, And don't need self righteous fools telling them they need help. All it does is crushes their self confidence, And i don't believe you're even listening to what i'm saying. And on the example of ******? I think you're confusing those who actually commit the atrocity of child molestation with the victims of child molestation...Unless you're saying that child molestation is totally fine.

I think it probably best we cease this conversation, Considering you don't even know what you're trying to defend yourself against.

I don't think you understand the concept of positive regard, it does not involve regarding a person negatively.
I have helped molester and molestee in the same capacity, though never with individuals who have known one another as such. Why would I confuse the two?

I am not trying to defend myself here, I was not aware that I was supposed to.

Apologies for the late reply, As i was busy...In any case, I don't believe that YOU understand the concept of 'Respecting someone's wishes.'

If the person says they are happy, And say they need no help, Who are you to say otherwise? What buisness is it of yours? Should the time come where they need your help, Then they shall ask for it, Or express their torment in other such ways...If they are happy, And say there is nothing wrong with them, Then you have abolutely NO right to tell them that there is.

It is as though you feel their life is determined by your personal judgement, Which is something I abhor. Their life and how they live it is none of your buisness, You are not jesus christ superstar, And you are not a god. If they are suffering and ask you for your help, Help them. If they are living their life happily, Leave them alone. This is the point i'm trying to get across by phrasing it in many different ways, But you are not listening.

Drop this conversation, It's not worth your embarrassment.

I think that you both should consider that there are multiple ways of adjusting to people with disabilities. The method she is talking about actually is quite appropriate for relating to them, since unconditional positive regard is not condescending nor an attempt to justify everything about them and does involve focusing on the person as an individual. It is more about regarding the experiences of the person as valid and meaningful not accepting bad behavior. However many people do not approach disabilities this way and instead regard disability in a stereotyped manner and condescend instead of empathizing. Sometimes people forget that the disability is only one part of a person and see such individuals as their disorders. Such behavior is quite demeaning and ignorant, regardless of intention