How no one can prove God exists.

[Living Gospel of Jesus]

RedFive478

If it is not written for nonbelievers to understand, what is the point of it? What is the point of a book that only further convinces the already convinced? Furthermore, would not an all-knowing being who created each and every one of us have an intimate knowledge of what it would take to convince us? Wouldn't he be able to write it in a dumbed-down version? Wouldn't he be able to say things in a way that everybody can understand? Even if there were a point to the allusive nature of the messages of the Bible, wouldn't he be able to send us each a personalized message that would thoroughly convince us?

On the point of the divine nature of the Bible, the only evidence for the Bible being the infallible word of god is in the book itself. "I know the book is good, because it said it is good and I know it would not lie to me because a good book would not lie," is circular logic.

The text is not impossible to read or understand on a human level. For example, there are some of the books of history. Anyone can read it and understand it that history, but as far as the spiritual message in any of the written books, no one can fully understand.

So I am not saying you can't read it, but ultimately they will not have understanding of the full message, it will allude them, it doesn't matter who they are unless its the Holy Spirit guiding them into understanding.

The spirit of man understands man and the things of man, the spirit of man does not understand the things of God. When the spirit of man attempts to remain the spirit of man and try to understand God and His revelation, things go bad, they see things that aren't there, they see God through the eyes of the spirit of man. Like dirty glasses, they don't see it right, although they can see, but its not clear, and never will be, and some times they even believe they know, but that is a deep delusion to God. The spirit of man is not from God, it is from man's own free will to choose himself, or his Creator.

IN the beginning God was with man, but man rebelled and the relationship between God and man was torn, that was mans choice, as choice was given to him. God wants to repair that relationship to whom ever wants to come to Him.

Only the Spirit of God can understand Gods revelation to mankind. If it were meant "for" the spirit of man to have and understand, then the ultimate goal of Gods plan would have failed, there would be still no relationship or faith in his Creator, the spirit of man does not allow anyone to have faith in God. That is called "your own will"

Your questions are ignorant to His plan, that is why you do not understand and think it rubbish.

But until a little faith comes into your life and you begin to believe you will make progress and things will become more clear, but not at any quick timing.

[Living Gospel of Jesus]

Hexatonic Scale

RedFive478

If it is not written for nonbelievers to understand, what is the point of it? What is the point of a book that only further convinces the already convinced? Furthermore, would not an all-knowing being who created each and every one of us have an intimate knowledge of what it would take to convince us? Wouldn't he be able to write it in a dumbed-down version? Wouldn't he be able to say things in a way that everybody can understand? Even if there were a point to the allusive nature of the messages of the Bible, wouldn't he be able to send us each a personalized message that would thoroughly convince us?

On the point of the divine nature of the Bible, the only evidence for the Bible being the infallible word of god is in the book itself. "I know the book is good, because it said it is good and I know it would not lie to me because a good book would not lie," is circular logic.

This is pretty much exactly what I thought when I read the beginning of the OP.

I mean, one could argue that the Torah or the greater Tanakh might be written in such a way, given that they were written for a Jewish audience by Jews. "This is our god and why we do the things we do" sort of thing.

The Gospels in particular, however, certainly seem as though they were written to be easily understood, to the point of even being written in, as far as I'm aware, rather simplistic Greek. (Not that Greek is simple, but that it's written using simple words, either for more people to understand, or because it was not the authors' first language, iirc)

Moreover, according to those Gospels, Jesus often taught with parables. Lest anyone be confused:

OED

parable: A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels. (source)

So yes, the idea of an evangelical religion having their core texts be incomprehensible to all but the faithful is foolish and self-defeating.

Scripture cannot be understood the way God intended without the faith in God. My statement is this. Without faith, being a nonbeliever, the scriptures were not meant. The scriptures can however be a way to "receive" faith through a nonbelievers. But I certainly was not saying a nonbeliever cannot ever receive faith by reading it, what I was saying is, as long as said person remains without faith (nonbeliever) the scripture are not meant for such a one. They are meant to teach us and GIVE us faith, but to the one who will not receive faith, the scriptures are not meant for such a one.

Nothing self defeating about it, it is only self defeating to those who don't know.

[rmcdra]

Living Gospel of Jesus

The scriptures were not written to be scrutinized by scholars
nor written for science to prove or disprove,
nor written for philosophers to philosophize about,

Nor written for nonbelievers to understand or ask for proof from man.


The scriptures, being God breathed, are written in a language that no one can interpret or fully understand or follow without the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, given to us through Jesus Christ is what gives us the power to know the scriptures, and there is nothing else that stands next to it in comparison, nor close behind it.

The scriptures, being written by the power and Spirit of God, can only be understood wholly through the same.

A Christian cannot prove to anyone that God exists, only those who are willing to find Him and except Him and receive the Holy Spirit may have absolute proof. God saves men, men do not save men.

My encouragement then is to continue in the the Spirit and preach the Gospel to let those who do not know Him, for no one can no Him through the spirit of man, but that you might let them know that there is life in our God, and by the will of God pray they search Him out and receive the Holy Spirit. God will reveal Himself to such a one.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

[Blood Valkyrie]

If your god cannot be proven to exist, then there is no point in assuming he is real, because he cannot be proven to exist just like unicorns cannot be proven to exist. So, I will continue to not give a flying flip about what you claim your god says.

I suddenly feel like making out with a woman's private areas.

[Living Gospel of Jesus]

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

The scriptures were not written to be scrutinized by scholars
nor written for science to prove or disprove,
nor written for philosophers to philosophize about,

Nor written for nonbelievers to understand or ask for proof from man.


The scriptures, being God breathed, are written in a language that no one can interpret or fully understand or follow without the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, given to us through Jesus Christ is what gives us the power to know the scriptures, and there is nothing else that stands next to it in comparison, nor close behind it.

The scriptures, being written by the power and Spirit of God, can only be understood wholly through the same.

A Christian cannot prove to anyone that God exists, only those who are willing to find Him and except Him and receive the Holy Spirit may have absolute proof. God saves men, men do not save men.

My encouragement then is to continue in the the Spirit and preach the Gospel to let those who do not know Him, for no one can no Him through the spirit of man, but that you might let them know that there is life in our God, and by the will of God pray they search Him out and receive the Holy Spirit. God will reveal Himself to such a one.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

Ultimately, anyone with the Holy Spirit and is skilled in the word of God will know all of this. But am not attempting to at all to prove myself. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof, not me. That is my message to believers, so that they wont try and use their own power to try to save man, trying to convince nonbelievers of every portion of the text, and we know that there is no such thing according spirit of man, for he will not comprehend it the way that the Spirit will that was intended and given by God through Jesus Christ.

You said that "If ones stance is in accordance with truth, then it should withstand testing" I agree, but it is not my stance, it is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth, not me.

[rmcdra]

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

The scriptures were not written to be scrutinized by scholars
nor written for science to prove or disprove,
nor written for philosophers to philosophize about,

Nor written for nonbelievers to understand or ask for proof from man.


The scriptures, being God breathed, are written in a language that no one can interpret or fully understand or follow without the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, given to us through Jesus Christ is what gives us the power to know the scriptures, and there is nothing else that stands next to it in comparison, nor close behind it.

The scriptures, being written by the power and Spirit of God, can only be understood wholly through the same.

A Christian cannot prove to anyone that God exists, only those who are willing to find Him and except Him and receive the Holy Spirit may have absolute proof. God saves men, men do not save men.

My encouragement then is to continue in the the Spirit and preach the Gospel to let those who do not know Him, for no one can no Him through the spirit of man, but that you might let them know that there is life in our God, and by the will of God pray they search Him out and receive the Holy Spirit. God will reveal Himself to such a one.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

Ultimately, anyone with the Holy Spirit and is skilled in the word of God will know all of this. But am not attempting to at all to prove myself. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof, not me. That is my message to believers, so that they wont try and use their own power to try to save man, trying to convince nonbelievers of every portion of the text, and we know that there is no such thing according spirit of man, for he will not comprehend it the way that the Spirit will that was intended and given by God through Jesus Christ.

You said that "If ones stance is in accordance with truth, then it should withstand testing" I agree, but it is not my stance, it is the Holy Spirit that guides, not me.

1 John 1:4

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

That would include testing if it is the Holy Spirit that's moving you would it not?

[Living Gospel of Jesus]

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

The scriptures were not written to be scrutinized by scholars
nor written for science to prove or disprove,
nor written for philosophers to philosophize about,

Nor written for nonbelievers to understand or ask for proof from man.


The scriptures, being God breathed, are written in a language that no one can interpret or fully understand or follow without the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, given to us through Jesus Christ is what gives us the power to know the scriptures, and there is nothing else that stands next to it in comparison, nor close behind it.

The scriptures, being written by the power and Spirit of God, can only be understood wholly through the same.

A Christian cannot prove to anyone that God exists, only those who are willing to find Him and except Him and receive the Holy Spirit may have absolute proof. God saves men, men do not save men.

My encouragement then is to continue in the the Spirit and preach the Gospel to let those who do not know Him, for no one can no Him through the spirit of man, but that you might let them know that there is life in our God, and by the will of God pray they search Him out and receive the Holy Spirit. God will reveal Himself to such a one.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

Ultimately, anyone with the Holy Spirit and is skilled in the word of God will know all of this. But am not attempting to at all to prove myself. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof, not me. That is my message to believers, so that they wont try and use their own power to try to save man, trying to convince nonbelievers of every portion of the text, and we know that there is no such thing according spirit of man, for he will not comprehend it the way that the Spirit will that was intended and given by God through Jesus Christ.

You said that "If ones stance is in accordance with truth, then it should withstand testing" I agree, but it is not my stance, it is the Holy Spirit that guides, not me.

1 John 1:4

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

That would include testing if it is the Holy Spirit that's moving you would it not?

I know that was the passage you were remembering when you were speaking about testing. You also forgotten everything else that I said, so I wont repeat myself since you are of another spirit.

Ive already discerned your spirit in your first post, and I have given the answer necessary, even if it not good enough for you. If you want anything else, compare what I said to scripture, for it was scripture in the first place that I used.

That is all.

[rmcdra]

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

The scriptures were not written to be scrutinized by scholars
nor written for science to prove or disprove,
nor written for philosophers to philosophize about,

Nor written for nonbelievers to understand or ask for proof from man.


The scriptures, being God breathed, are written in a language that no one can interpret or fully understand or follow without the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, given to us through Jesus Christ is what gives us the power to know the scriptures, and there is nothing else that stands next to it in comparison, nor close behind it.

The scriptures, being written by the power and Spirit of God, can only be understood wholly through the same.

A Christian cannot prove to anyone that God exists, only those who are willing to find Him and except Him and receive the Holy Spirit may have absolute proof. God saves men, men do not save men.

My encouragement then is to continue in the the Spirit and preach the Gospel to let those who do not know Him, for no one can no Him through the spirit of man, but that you might let them know that there is life in our God, and by the will of God pray they search Him out and receive the Holy Spirit. God will reveal Himself to such a one.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

Ultimately, anyone with the Holy Spirit and is skilled in the word of God will know all of this. But am not attempting to at all to prove myself. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof, not me. That is my message to believers, so that they wont try and use their own power to try to save man, trying to convince nonbelievers of every portion of the text, and we know that there is no such thing according spirit of man, for he will not comprehend it the way that the Spirit will that was intended and given by God through Jesus Christ.

You said that "If ones stance is in accordance with truth, then it should withstand testing" I agree, but it is not my stance, it is the Holy Spirit that guides, not me.

1 John 1:4

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

That would include testing if it is the Holy Spirit that's moving you would it not?

I know that was the passage you were remembering when you were speaking about testing. You also forgotten everything else that I said, so I wont repeat myself since you are of another spirit.

Ive already discerned your spirit in your first post, and I have given the answer necessary, even if it not good enough for you. If you want anything else, compare what I said to scripture, for it was scripture in the first place that I used.

That is all.

I know that the Holy Spirit is proof. I do not deny this as being proof. I know that no one can save except for God. I'm not arguing with you on this so why are you accusing me of being of another spirit?

What I'm asking is how do you test and discern the spirits? It's pretty easy to describe if you know what you're doing. The Spirit can move you to do things that you don't fully understand, even writing things that you don't fully understand. What is the measure to test the Spirit by?

[Living Gospel of Jesus]

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

Living Gospel of Jesus

rmcdra

I'm going to be one of the few people who says I agree with what you wrote here but I think I understand it differently than how you meant what you wrote here. I question the spirit that you are following so if don't mind me testing the spirits here I'm going to ask a few questions. I mean if one is with truth, then their stance should withstand testing correct? What purpose does scripture serve to the faithful? Is there a litmus that allows one to gauge if the Spirit is moving them in their understanding? Where does one find God? If it is not "written for philosophers to philosophize about" then how do doctrines and teachings based on the Bible come about? You listed a number of things that scriptures were not intended for, how do those things oppose faith? Are there any circumstances where those items you listed can build faith? If the spirit is moving you and you know Christ then these should not be difficult questions to answer.

Ultimately, anyone with the Holy Spirit and is skilled in the word of God will know all of this. But am not attempting to at all to prove myself. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof, not me. That is my message to believers, so that they wont try and use their own power to try to save man, trying to convince nonbelievers of every portion of the text, and we know that there is no such thing according spirit of man, for he will not comprehend it the way that the Spirit will that was intended and given by God through Jesus Christ.

You said that "If ones stance is in accordance with truth, then it should withstand testing" I agree, but it is not my stance, it is the Holy Spirit that guides, not me.

1 John 1:4

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

That would include testing if it is the Holy Spirit that's moving you would it not?

I know that was the passage you were remembering when you were speaking about testing. You also forgotten everything else that I said, so I wont repeat myself since you are of another spirit.

Ive already discerned your spirit in your first post, and I have given the answer necessary, even if it not good enough for you. If you want anything else, compare what I said to scripture, for it was scripture in the first place that I used.

That is all.

I know that the Holy Spirit is proof. I do not deny this as being proof. I know that no one can save except for God. I'm not arguing with you on this so why are you accusing me of being of another spirit?

What I'm asking is how do you test and discern the spirits? It's pretty easy to describe if you know what you're doing. The Spirit can move you to do things that you don't fully understand, even writing things that you don't fully understand. What is the measure to test the Spirit by?

No, you did not ask me how I test spirits. Even if you did, what does how "I" test another have anything to do with the Word of God for Christians?

But no, what you said was you were going to test my spirit, to make sure it is true.

You're changing what you said. Although I told you your spirit I already determined, it is revealing itself for even the less experienced. I think we're through.