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I just believe in racism period. I don't understand why there's this thing lately with people claiming that whites don't face racism. The Jews are quite possibly the most persecuted group of people in human history and they're white. You also have racism against the Scottish/Irish. I guess because that's usually whites vs. whites, it doesn't seem to count. You also have instances of other races being racist, such as the Japanese being racist against Koreans or Koreans being racist against blacks. Racism is just racism. You can't say that it exists for some people and not for others or that it's acceptable in some cases and not others.
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black_wing_angel
Except that the "problem" causes whites with genuine claims of discrimination to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Specifically because of that mind-set. That's a pretty big ******** problem.


Once again, didn't say it doesn't happen, just that it's not the same kind of systemic problem that discrimination against non-whites is. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves.

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August, 2009. A local hotel was purchased by some yahoo from California. Within 3 months, every single white employee was either fired, or had quit to avoid it, and had been replaced with a black person, with the exception of 2 white employees who could not be fired, due to the nature of their jobs. Possibly also as token whites, to combat legal claims of racism.


Source please. Also, what evidence do we have this was done from racism? Are ALL employees, except for these two token white people, now black? No latinos in there to do the laundry?

black_wing_angel
July, 2010. Not arrested, specifically. But stopped, questioned sternly, patted down, and criminal history searched. Basically treated like a criminal who just hasn't been caught, yet. I believe we call this "profiling", correct?

And a little background information: Predominately black community, roughly 8:30AM, Saturday. Probably 65°F, not a cloud in the sky. Blue jeans and a short sleeve tee shirt.



Holy ******** s**t, are you serious? This is your evidence of police racism, against white people? What exactly did this white guy look like? How does this story compare to black discrimination from the cops? What about the 684,000 people who were randomly stopped, searched, and let go in New York city last year? Were every single one of those cases also white people being racially profiled?

Oh, and source please. Is this a personal experience? So are you telling me that you just can't possibly understand how under any circumstances at all a cop might find you suspicious looking? You know white people don't usually walk around poor black neighborhoods unless they're there to buy drugs. Don't you think it might be a little justified to pat down someone fitting this description?

This is what I'm talking about - this story in no way compares to the racism people of color experience on a daily basis. It's not even close.

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I don't have any specific examples. But I do know a bar in my town where whites aren't specifically welcomed with open arms.


If you go to this bar, will they not even let you in? I know a bar where men aren't allowed with open arms. Is this because of racism?

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Frequency shouldn't be a factor. This is not "your" problem, because it happens to you more often. It's EVERYONE'S problem, because it happens AT ALL.


It's not the frequency, it's the fact that it never ******** happens at all, to white people that is. I notice you didn't even try to address this one, because you know you won't be able to find any examples.

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You yourself are feeding the problem, with you "it's alright if they're white, because we have it worse" mentality. That's the exact same mentality that was used in reverse in the 1940's and back. "Oh, it doesn't matter that that black man got patted down while walking the streets in broad daylight on a glorious Saturday morning. He's black."


Come up with some real examples of actual reverse racism and then you might have a point. But so far it just looks like the usual bullshit white people crybaby complaining.

That's because in real life white people have an advantage in this country. Don't try to tell me this isn't true, because it is.
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black_wing_angel
Except that the "problem" causes whites with genuine claims of discrimination to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Specifically because of that mind-set. That's a pretty big ******** problem.


Once again, didn't say it doesn't happen, just that it's not the same kind of systemic problem that discrimination against non-whites is. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves.

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August, 2009. A local hotel was purchased by some yahoo from California. Within 3 months, every single white employee was either fired, or had quit to avoid it, and had been replaced with a black person, with the exception of 2 white employees who could not be fired, due to the nature of their jobs. Possibly also as token whites, to combat legal claims of racism.


Source please.


I don't have a tangible source for it. It was a local occurrence.

Also, what evidence do we have this was done from racism? Are ALL employees, except for these two token white people, now black? No latinos in there to do the laundry?

Nope. Every last one of the replacements was a black individual. Nobody of any other race, except the 2 token whites that I believe couldn't have been replaced very easily.

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black_wing_angel
July, 2010. Not arrested, specifically. But stopped, questioned sternly, patted down, and criminal history searched. Basically treated like a criminal who just hasn't been caught, yet. I believe we call this "profiling", correct?

And a little background information: Predominately black community, roughly 8:30AM, Saturday. Probably 65°F, not a cloud in the sky. Blue jeans and a short sleeve tee shirt.



Holy ******** s**t, are you serious? This is your evidence of police racism, against white people? What exactly did this white guy look like?


Me.

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How does this story compare to black discrimination from the cops? What about the 684,000 people who were randomly stopped, searched, and let go in New York city last year? Were every single one of those cases also white people being racially profiled?


I am not saying it "compares" to anything. Only a complete moron tries to "compare" acts of racism to other acts of racism, to try to determine the appropriate level of outrage due.

I don't care if black people get tased and cuffed, and that's somehow worse than what happened to me. The fact is, NONE of it should be happening.

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Oh, and source please. Is this a personal experience? So are you telling me that you just can't possibly understand how under any circumstances at all a cop might find you suspicious looking?


That's still profiling, isn't it? And unless I'm wearing a bloodstained tee shirt, there's absolutely no reason for any suspicion, based on physical appearance.

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You know white people don't usually walk around poor black neighborhoods unless they're there to buy drugs.


Or if they have family in the area, like me.

See, I didn't mind being stopped and questioned. A few short Q and As is fine. I get it. But patting down, verbally degraded, and having the content of my wallet questioned? Severely over the line.

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Don't you think it might be a little justified to pat down someone fitting this description?


Not remotely. There is no reason to suggest any potential threat.

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This is what I'm talking about - this story in no way compares to the racism people of color experience on a daily basis. It's not even close.


Again, why should it be "compared". You didn't ask for something that "compares". You asked for examples of racism against whites. And I provided.

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I don't have any specific examples. But I do know a bar in my town where whites aren't specifically welcomed with open arms.


If you go to this bar, will they not even let you in?


Legally, they would have to. But the odds of leaving without some form of injury, diminishes with time.

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Frequency shouldn't be a factor. This is not "your" problem, because it happens to you more often. It's EVERYONE'S problem, because it happens AT ALL.


It's not the frequency, it's the fact that it never ******** happens at all, to white people that is.


See? That's the problem. If it's not as bad as what happens to blacks, it doesn't happen at all. You allow this s**t to happen to people, by ignoring it, because you don't like to admit that whites can be victims, too. Whites are the majority, they have the "advantages", so it's ok when someone "knocks him down a peg". And it makes me sick.
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black_wing_angel
Frequency shouldn't be a factor. This is not "your" problem, because it happens to you more often. It's EVERYONE'S problem, because it happens AT ALL.
[Snide]

Yes, because people in the ICU always appreciate it when a whiny ******** comes in with a papercut and tells them their suffering is equal.

White people, when POC are talking about racism, it is seriously not the appropriate time for you to b***h about someone telling you you can't dance.
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black_wing_angel

August, 2009. A local hotel was purchased by some yahoo from California. Within 3 months, every single white employee was either fired, or had quit to avoid it, and had been replaced with a black person, with the exception of 2 white employees who could not be fired, due to the nature of their jobs. Possibly also as token whites, to combat legal claims of racism.


Translation: More black people hired? MUST BE RACISM.

You've brought no evidence about the motives or proof that ALL the white employees are fired. And how many employees were there to begin with? How many were fired? How do you know those who quit were going to be fired? Did you just take their word for it? And it's nice how you dismiss the exceptions as clearly being motived by something else instead of taking them into account as maybe showing that it wasn't just white people being targetted.

Quote:

July, 2010. Not arrested, specifically. But stopped, questioned sternly, patted down, and criminal history searched. Basically treated like a criminal who just hasn't been caught, yet. I believe we call this "profiling", correct?

And a little background information: Predominately black community, roughly 8:30AM, Saturday. Probably 65°F, not a cloud in the sky. Blue jeans and a short sleeve tee shirt.


No, it's not called profiling when you get stopped. You've assumed you know the reason without evidence for it. And no, a few possible reasons being unlikely does not mean that it must be race.


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I don't have any specific examples. But I do know a bar in my town where whites aren't specifically welcomed with open arms.


Expecting people to trust your judgement. How amusing.

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Frequency shouldn't be a factor. This is not "your" problem, because it happens to you more often. It's EVERYONE'S problem, because it happens AT ALL.


No example being provided. Interesting. Also note, one single white guy being denied a loan compared to it happening more systematically to black people does not warrant the same response. You see one individaul problem, worth correcting, not worth the same amount of investigation as something that happens systematically. Something happening once is worth correcting, but not worth investigating much. It is an anomoly. If it happens a thousand times, there's more reason to investigate and seek a broader solution.
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from blue to
It almost seems like you think distinguishing mistreatment of white people based on race from racist treatment of others will make it less wrong.


Maybe I worded my question wrong. I'm asking if anyone here believes white people are systematically oppressed by blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc on the basis of their skin color.


which is just a convenient way of saying that white people should shut up, right? that because of our skin colour, we have no right to say we've been discriminated against, or subjugated by any form of racism? that having white skin automatically makes you privileged in some way, and that no harm shall befall you as long as your skin colour is white???

Obviously I'm carry that to an extreme, but seriously, what are you trying to imply?

Being white in some parts of the world can be a bad thing (think parts of Africa and the Middle East), but being Western is really the problem, and having white skin is just an obvious indicator of being from the West. But, clearly, no systematic oppression currently occurs against white people. It did, in the past, but it no longer does. Can you please tell me where a systematic oppression of blacks, Latinos, Asians etc. occurs based on the colour of their skin by white people, as your question implies? It has, clearly, in the past, but I would argue that while discrimination still exists against these "minority" groups by individuals in many countries (as discrimination against everyone from someone pretty much exists), a systematic oppression is no longer tolerated by... well, anyone.
The Herald of War


Translation: More black people hired? MUST BE RACISM.

You've brought no evidence about the motives or proof that ALL the white employees are fired. And how many employees were there to begin with? How many were fired? How do you know those who quit were going to be fired? Did you just take their word for it? And it's nice how you dismiss the exceptions as clearly being motived by something else instead of taking them into account as maybe showing that it wasn't just white people being targetted.


Well I'd think it bares mentioning that if the same situation had happened but it was a predominately black work force that was force that was fired, there would be utter outrage and accusations of racism flowing with utter abandon.
Don't you guys get bored arguing with the same people about the same topic after a month?
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Don't you guys get bored arguing with the same people about the same topic after a month?


Obviously not.
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black_wing_angel


I don't have a tangible source for it. It was a local occurrence.

Nope. Every last one of the replacements was a black individual. Nobody of any other race, except the 2 token whites that I believe couldn't have been replaced very easily.



What town is it in? What's the name of the hotel? Sorry but just saying these things with no proof is not good enough. It should be easy enough to determine if all the employees there are black except for 2 like you say.

Have you considered the fact that the new management simply cut everyone's wages, and the people who were there before decided not to keep the same jobs for less pay? Like I said, how do you know it's racism? Did you work at this hotel?

black_wing_angel


Me.


I am not saying it "compares" to anything. Only a complete moron tries to "compare" acts of racism to other acts of racism, to try to determine the appropriate level of outrage due.

I don't care if black people get tased and cuffed, and that's somehow worse than what happened to me. The fact is, NONE of it should be happening.


By any chance, do you dress like how your avatar looks, all gothy and s**t? You don't think a cop might find someone dressed like that the least bit suspicious? Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the cops were looking for a white guy in your general age range dressed like you?

You know, I used to drive a 94 Ford piece of s**t escort, and I would get stopped by the cops constantly - because at the time I lived in somewhat rich area. Were the cops racially profiling me? Or were they just questioning something they found out of place?

This is what I'm talking about - you simply cannot comprehend that you could possibly ever be taken for a suspicious person, so the cop stopping you MUST have been racially motivated. No other explanation, huh? Tell me, how many times exactly do you get stopped in this neighborhood, or in general? Once? Twice? All the time? I'm betting this doesn't happen very often.

See, if these were black cops who systematically beat the s**t out of you, arrested you for no reason, or planted drugs on you or otherwise harrassed you so you'd stay out of their neighborhood because they didn't like white people, that would be "racism." Not I-got-pulled-over-and-searched-because-I'm-in-a-neighborhood-that-I-look-like-I-don't-belong-holy-s**t-must-be-reverse-racism. That's bullshit.

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That's still profiling, isn't it? And unless I'm wearing a bloodstained tee shirt, there's absolutely no reason for any suspicion, based on physical appearance.


Bullshit, that's what cops are supposed to do, stop people who look suspicious, who look like they don't belong. I remember after 9-11 when all the conservatives were defending racial profiling of Muslims at airports, funny how it's ok to do it when it's not white people.

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Or if they have family in the area, like me.

See, I didn't mind being stopped and questioned. A few short Q and As is fine. I get it. But patting down, verbally degraded, and having the content of my wallet questioned? Severely over the line.


Obviously you did care, else you wouldn't have brought it up as a (very poor) example of reverse racism.

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Not remotely. There is no reason to suggest any potential threat.


Bullshit, the fact that you're even there - a white guy in a black neighborhood, is reason enough. Especially one who's dressed like how your avatar dresses, by which I assume you wear lots of black and T-shirts with band names and s**t on them. How long is your hair?

Even if that's not the case though and you're just a regular looking schmoe, you have no proof it was racial profiling. The cop simply could have been looking for someone driving your same model of car, or who fit your description.

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Again, why should it be "compared". You didn't ask for something that "compares". You asked for examples of racism against whites. And I provided.


Because what you think is racism is not even ******** close to what I experience as racism. See, I'm lucky because I'm part white, and if someone doesn't look at me for too long I can pass for a white person. Not so much as a child. One time when I was a kid I got my a** beat by a bunch of white kids calling me "rice eye" and "gook." That's what racism looks like, not a cop stopped you one time then let you go.

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Legally, they would have to. But the odds of leaving without some form of injury, diminishes with time.


So the bar is not in fact owned by racists, or operates in a racist manner. So let me ask, why the hell did you bring it up? How the ******** is this an example of "reverse racism" if in fact the ******** bar doesn't act racist towards you?

Is it because the people inside would beat the s**t out of you because you're white? No other reason, huh? Just white person = automatic beat down? Are you ******** serious?

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See? That's the problem. If it's not as bad as what happens to blacks, it doesn't happen at all. You allow this s**t to happen to people, by ignoring it, because you don't like to admit that whites can be victims, too. Whites are the majority, they have the "advantages", so it's ok when someone "knocks him down a peg". And it makes me sick.


The problem is you don't know what you're talking about, and you take small little bullshit transgressions as "racism" when in real life you've never experienced anything even ******** close. Come back when somebody's burning a cross on your lawn.
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Translation: More black people hired? MUST BE RACISM.

You've brought no evidence about the motives or proof that ALL the white employees are fired. And how many employees were there to begin with? How many were fired? How do you know those who quit were going to be fired? Did you just take their word for it? And it's nice how you dismiss the exceptions as clearly being motived by something else instead of taking them into account as maybe showing that it wasn't just white people being targetted.


Well I'd think it bares mentioning that if the same situation had happened but it was a predominately black work force that was force that was fired, there would be utter outrage and accusations of racism flowing with utter abandon.


What 'same situation'? We don't even have any DETAILS about his claim. How many employees were there? How does he know they quit before being fired? Where is he getting this information from, and why should this source be trusted? For all we know it's some buddy of his who thinks he got fired for being white and is now seeing racism in everything.
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There is racism only, reverse racism is nonsense.
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The Herald of War
black_wing_angel

August, 2009. A local hotel was purchased by some yahoo from California. Within 3 months, every single white employee was either fired, or had quit to avoid it, and had been replaced with a black person, with the exception of 2 white employees who could not be fired, due to the nature of their jobs. Possibly also as token whites, to combat legal claims of racism.


Translation: More black people hired? MUST BE RACISM.


1 or 2 people, I'd give the benefit of doubt.

But when more than 30 people are systematically fired or set up to be fired, and EVERY LAST PERSON brought in to replace them is of the same race WITHOUT A SINGLE EXCEPTION, then there's a pretty ******** strong case.

The question is, would you raise the same doubts, if the role were reversed?

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You've brought no evidence about the motives or proof that ALL the white employees are fired.


I knew every last employee in that hotel, myself. I knew who was being fired, and who was not. The only ones that were not constantly being "written up" for things that happen outside of the workplace, and other bullshit reasons to push toward termination, were the black employees.

Like it or not, there's strong evidence that the person who bought the hotel was a very blatant racist.

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And how many employees were there to begin with?
How many were fired? How do you know those who quit were going to be fired? Did you just take their word for it?

I watched it all unfold, with my own eyes.

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And it's nice how you dismiss the exceptions as clearly being motived by something else instead of taking them into account as maybe showing that it wasn't just white people being targetted.


I love how you are quick to cast doubt, against all probability.

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July, 2010. Not arrested, specifically. But stopped, questioned sternly, patted down, and criminal history searched. Basically treated like a criminal who just hasn't been caught, yet. I believe we call this "profiling", correct?

And a little background information: Predominately black community, roughly 8:30AM, Saturday. Probably 65°F, not a cloud in the sky. Blue jeans and a short sleeve tee shirt.


No, it's not called profiling when you get stopped. You've assumed you know the reason without evidence for it. And no, a few possible reasons being unlikely does not mean that it must be race.

Why else would a cop feel the need to stop a random person who's doing nothing but walking in broad daylight, on a rather gorgeous morning? And why would he feel the need to berate me?

But go ahead and pretend it only happens to your side. You have that privilege.
I had no idea this was such a touchy subject for white people.
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black_wing_angel


I don't have a tangible source for it. It was a local occurrence.

Nope. Every last one of the replacements was a black individual. Nobody of any other race, except the 2 token whites that I believe couldn't have been replaced very easily.



What town is it in? What's the name of the hotel?


Sorry, but I make it a point not to give specific details about my residence, in public access.

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Sorry but just saying these things with no proof is not good enough. It should be easy enough to determine if all the employees there are black except for 2 like you say.

Have you considered the fact that the new management simply cut everyone's wages, and the people who were there before decided not to keep the same jobs for less pay? Like I said, how do you know it's racism? Did you work at this hotel?


Considering the fact that I personally knew each and every employee, and talked to them specifically about it...yes. I can rule that out.

I did not work for them, myself. But someone in my family did, and I routinely "dropped by" for visits during the housekeeping staff lunch break.

black_wing_angel


Me.


I am not saying it "compares" to anything. Only a complete moron tries to "compare" acts of racism to other acts of racism, to try to determine the appropriate level of outrage due.

I don't care if black people get tased and cuffed, and that's somehow worse than what happened to me. The fact is, NONE of it should be happening.


By any chance, do you dress like how your avatar looks, all gothy and s**t?

Not "gothic" specifically. Except my studded wrist-band, which I was not wearing that day. Just a decent pair of blue jeans, and a tee shirt. Nothing "suspicious" or otherwise noteworthy.

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You don't think a cop might find someone dressed like that the least bit suspicious?


I suppose they could, if they wanted to appeal to certain stereotypes. Which is absolutely not ok. The fact is, he had no probable cause to stop and question me. Least of all, to berate me, and treat me like a criminal.

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Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the cops were looking for a white guy in your general age range dressed like you?


Yes it has. The thing is, usuaully they TELL you that. If that's the case, why didn't he inform me? Especially after it was made abundantly clear that I was not the guy they would presumably be seeking?

When my sister got pulled over a year ago, the cop ended the matter by explaining that they were looking for another car with the same description, and told us to "drive careful, and have a good night". THIS cop called in my arrest record, which came up spotless, and just handed back my license, and told me to "...get out of here."

That I wouldn't attribute to racism, though. Just poor manners.

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You know, I used to drive a 94 Ford piece of s**t escort, and I would get stopped by the cops constantly - because at the time I lived in somewhat rich area. Were the cops racially profiling me? Or were they just questioning something they found out of place?


Except there's nothing "out of place" about me. Except the fact that I was white.

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This is what I'm talking about - you simply cannot comprehend that you could possibly ever be taken for a suspicious person, so the cop stopping you MUST have been racially motivated.


Oh, I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to just find me suspicious. Hell, someone walking around in a dress shirt and khakis can be "suspicious" to someone else. But it was pretty well implied that I had no business being in the area. And there's no reason that that would be, except the fact that white people were an extreme minority in the area.

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No other explanation, huh? Tell me, how many times exactly do you get stopped in this neighborhood, or in general? Once? Twice? All the time? I'm betting this doesn't happen very often.


I don't generally occupy that area. I was on vacation to see my aunt and uncle that I'm lucky to see once every 3 or 4 years.

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The problem is you don't know what you're talking about, and you take small little bullshit transgressions as "racism" when in real life you've never experienced anything even ******** close. Come back when somebody's burning a cross on your lawn.


Why? So you can make excuses for that, as well?

Besides, extreme racism is the only racism that you care about. Or if the victim isn't white.

Tell me, how would you feel if a black woman was constantly being "watched" by the staff, when browsing around a shop of some kind? Would you still propose all of the "possibilities"? Maybe they're looking for someone who she kinda looks like. Maybe they think she might be Beyonce, or something.

...Or would you immediately jump on the "THAT'S RACIST!" bandwagon?

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