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Tiggette
Because Politics. Research Prohibition and learn why banning alcohol never did and never will work.

It's one of those things that have been so deeply entrenched into the lives of the majority that a law holds no power.

Its not just politics. Its also social.

Socially speaking, alcohol has been accepted for a long time. Jesus almost certainly drank beer all the time because the water from the Nile was too much of a risk. Alot of our Founding Fathers were moonshiners back when it wasn't such a crime.


Psh. Cannabis has been accepted for a longer time than alcohol. It's been growing extensively throughout Africa and Asia since before recorded history and was thus likely one of the first cultivated plants. Cannabis was part of many religious practices and when the founding fathers were sober, they wrote our constitution on the plant.

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Weed however has been a sub-culture in the US pretty much since the 20's onward. Its not been really ever widely accepted, and people are always going to be more inclined to ban things they themselves do not use.


Like I said, cannabis has been made illegal only during the wake of the industrial revolution. Before we got prescribed factory-made pills that'll kill you if you popped too many, or caused serious medical problems anyway because of the harmful chemical contents in the medicine, doctors would prescribe natural remedies, including cannabis. Contrary to what you think, it was widely accepted. In fact, in the '30s, when congress passed the law banning medicinal marijuana use, the ruling was strongly opposed by the American Medical Association.

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The main policy issue that most pro-weed people don't address too well is this notion of Pandora's Box. The fear is that, while weed is not as bad as alcohol, legalizing it would add yet another massly produced and abusable substance to the market. Anytime you increase access, you increase the likelihood of abuse. And what's more, the policing agencies for such substances already legalized are having a hard enough time managing that.


Nonsense. Do you have any clue of how many pot smokers there are in North America alone (US/Canada/Mexico)? Me neither, but I do remember hearing it's a lot and yet, no societal decay caused by cannabis "abuse." No reefer madness histeria or men coming home high to beat his wife and kids. Yeah, I'm sure policing agencies will have a f*ck of a hard time filling up our prisons with even more nonviolent drug offenders.


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The reasons are multi-faceted, and go beyond the ol' hemp paper story we all for the most part know.


No... Nobody knows this "story." It's not a lesson we cover in history class and it's nothing we hear our grandparents mention while rambling about the good ole days. We humans are extremely prone to amnesia and can thus be brainwashed about our past. You, believing the marijuana was never widely accepted in this society, are an example. It's surprising considering that the records are still all there and yet it goes on forgotten and even ignored.

There's been a fear mongering smear campaign against cannabis for almost a hundred years now even though it's been cigarettes, alcohol, perscribed meds, caffeine and other legal and FDA approved products that's been causing addiction/death. Even if you buy the whole "pot makes you lazy" nonsense, how could you possibly look me in the eyes and tell me that you believe the government keeps you away from a cannabis to benefit your health?
Usurper Of Thrones
Riviera de la Mancha
Tiggette
Because Politics. Research Prohibition and learn why banning alcohol never did and never will work.

It's one of those things that have been so deeply entrenched into the lives of the majority that a law holds no power.

Its not just politics. Its also social.

Socially speaking, alcohol has been accepted for a long time. Jesus almost certainly drank beer all the time because the water from the Nile was too much of a risk. Alot of our Founding Fathers were moonshiners back when it wasn't such a crime.


Psh. Cannabis has been accepted for a longer time than alcohol. It's been growing extensively throughout Africa and Asia since before recorded history and was thus likely one of the first cultivated plants. Cannabis was part of many religious practices and when the founding fathers were sober, they wrote our constitution on the plant.

Quote:
Weed however has been a sub-culture in the US pretty much since the 20's onward. Its not been really ever widely accepted, and people are always going to be more inclined to ban things they themselves do not use.


Like I said, cannabis has been made illegal only during the wake of the industrial revolution. Before we got prescribed factory-made pills that'll kill you if you popped too many, or caused serious medical problems anyway because of the harmful chemical contents in the medicine, doctors would prescribe natural remedies, including cannabis. Contrary to what you think, it was widely accepted. In fact, in the '30s, when congress passed the law banning medicinal marijuana use, the ruling was strongly opposed by the American Medical Association.


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The main policy issue that most pro-weed people don't address too well is this notion of Pandora's Box. The fear is that, while weed is not as bad as alcohol, legalizing it would add yet another massly produced and abusable substance to the market. Anytime you increase access, you increase the likelihood of abuse. And what's more, the policing agencies for such substances already legalized are having a hard enough time managing that.


Nonsense. Do you have any clue of how many pot smokers there are in North America alone (US/Canada/Mexico)? Me neither, but I do remember hearing it's a lot and yet, no societal decay caused by cannabis "abuse." No reefer madness histeria or men coming home high to beat his wife and kids. Yeah, I'm sure policing agencies will have a f*ck of a hard time filling up our prisons with even more nonviolent drug offenders.


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The reasons are multi-faceted, and go beyond the ol' hemp paper story we all for the most part know.


No... Nobody knows this "story." It's not a lesson we cover in history class and it's nothing we hear our grandparents mention while rambling about the good ole days. We humans are extremely prone to amnesia and can thus be brainwashed about our past. You, believing the marijuana was never widely accepted in this society, are an example. It's surprising considering that the records are still all there and yet it goes on forgotten and even ignored.

There's been a fear mongering smear campaign against cannabis for almost a hundred years now even though it's been cigarettes, alcohol, perscribed meds, caffeine and other legal and FDA approved products that's been causing addiction/death. Even if you buy the whole "pot makes you lazy" nonsense, how could you possibly look me in the eyes and tell me that you believe the government keeps you away from a cannabis to benefit your health?
Exactly my point- its uses, if used at all, were for the hemp. When used religiously, it was a limited sect, whose use was relegated to particular events. Contrast that with alcohol, which was drunk in excess since it was made, drunk at any occasion, and drunk on a day to day basis.

Yeah, if we are going to go post industrial revolution on medicine, you better toss into that mix of 'natural medicine' mercury, tonics including chlorine and lead, and lopping off arms and legs to combat gangrene. Whatever medicinal uses it may have had, it was relegated to medicine. It was nowhere on the level of its cousin tobacco.

And that's also part of the larger point- if there are that many users while illegal, it stands to reason there would be an increase, namely from those who would use, or use more often, if they didn't fear criminal sanctions.

And based on preliminary data on how marijuana affects driving, there is support for how the drug impairs driving, which is the main issue. Its ultimately just not been studied enough or properly to make the connection. That is the issue though- with anything that can be abused, and weed certainly can, it runs the risk of harm. If you increase people's access to a risk-causing agent, you increase that likelihood of risk. Its simply a fact. The issue is how society will respond to it. It may be that, and I think this will be the ultimate position in a few years, the risk is acceptable on balance to most of society. They will think, ' Yeah, more accidents will happen, but if that means less money wasted on jails and policing, then that's a fair trade'. Society makes this choice all the time, but its a choice that needs to be made.
Riviera de la mancha

Yeah, if we are going to go post industrial revolution on medicine, you better toss into that mix of 'natural medicine' mercury, tonics including chlorine and lead, and lopping off arms and legs to combat gangrene. Whatever medicinal uses it may have had, it was relegated to medicine. It was nowhere on the level of its cousin tobacco.


The uses of medicinal medicine one hundred years ago was used for the same reasons it is used for today so the barbaric forms of treatment listed above is entirely irrelevant. Today, with the advancement of scientific research, there has been hundreds of studies suggesting that marijuana does more than just alleviate chronic pain. Researchers have found that the active ingredient known as THC can stimulate brain cells, reduce spasticity in MS patients, and even kill cancerous cells (I could provide llinks to articles but they're not hard to find). All these things, studies conclude, marijuana does more efficiently than traditional treatments while giving patients a better quality of life.

There's also even a form of cannabis in our bodies called the endocannabinoid system. There's no way cannabis is just some plant when it's chemicals are hardwired into our bodies.


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And that's also part of the larger point- if there are that many users while illegal, it stands to reason there would be an increase, namely from those who would use, or use more often, if they didn't fear criminal sanctions.


So? Besides big businesses, who, exactly would this cause harm to? Enough people smoke pot to be able to predict that we won't have a spike in violent crimes, car crashes, disease, genocides, war, or any of the such. Just a few prison cells will go wanting.

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And based on preliminary data on how marijuana affects driving, there is support for how the drug impairs driving, which is the main issue. Its ultimately just not been studied enough or properly to make the connection. That is the issue though- with anything that can be abused, and weed certainly can, it runs the risk of harm. If you increase people's access to a risk-causing agent, you increase that likelihood of risk. Its simply a fact. The issue is how society will respond to it. It may be that, and I think this will be the ultimate position in a few years, the risk is acceptable on balance to most of society. They will think, ' Yeah, more accidents will happen, but if that means less money wasted on jails and policing, then that's a fair trade'. Society makes this choice all the time, but its a choice that needs to be made.


Come now, benadryl will impair your driving even worse that pot, should this drug should be criminalized? And while you're telling me pot can cause car accidents, it was never THC found in anyone's system during the autopsy, was it?

Cannabis was legal long ago but why don't we ever hear of the stuff being abused then? Surely, we'd have (pre-industrial) news articles warning people against this plant still around. You couldn't find me one. The earliest claim about the negative effects of marijuana came from Henry Anslinger, our nations first Drug Czar, who said something about when smoked, the plant makes black and latino men rape white women, or something like that. This liar came into power during the industrial era. Seriously, the most dimwitted brainwashed fool should at least start to realize that there are dots that need connecting by now.
Usurper Of Thrones
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Yeah, if we are going to go post industrial revolution on medicine, you better toss into that mix of 'natural medicine' mercury, tonics including chlorine and lead, and lopping off arms and legs to combat gangrene. Whatever medicinal uses it may have had, it was relegated to medicine. It was nowhere on the level of its cousin tobacco.


The uses of medicinal medicine one hundred years ago was used for the same reasons it is used for today so the barbaric forms of treatment listed above is entirely irrelevant. Today, with the advancement of scientific research, there has been hundreds of studies suggesting that marijuana does more than just alleviate chronic pain. Researchers have found that the active ingredient known as THC can stimulate brain cells, reduce spasticity in MS patients, and even kill cancerous cells (I could provide llinks to articles but they're not hard to find). All these things, studies conclude, marijuana does more efficiently than traditional treatments while giving patients a better quality of life.

There's also even a form of cannabis in our bodies called the endocannabinoid system. There's no way cannabis is just some plant when it's chemicals are hardwired into our bodies.


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And that's also part of the larger point- if there are that many users while illegal, it stands to reason there would be an increase, namely from those who would use, or use more often, if they didn't fear criminal sanctions.


So? Besides big businesses, who, exactly would this cause harm to? Enough people smoke pot to be able to predict that we won't have a spike in violent crimes, car crashes, disease, genocides, war, or any of the such. Just a few prison cells will go wanting.

Quote:
And based on preliminary data on how marijuana affects driving, there is support for how the drug impairs driving, which is the main issue. Its ultimately just not been studied enough or properly to make the connection. That is the issue though- with anything that can be abused, and weed certainly can, it runs the risk of harm. If you increase people's access to a risk-causing agent, you increase that likelihood of risk. Its simply a fact. The issue is how society will respond to it. It may be that, and I think this will be the ultimate position in a few years, the risk is acceptable on balance to most of society. They will think, ' Yeah, more accidents will happen, but if that means less money wasted on jails and policing, then that's a fair trade'. Society makes this choice all the time, but its a choice that needs to be made.


Come now, benadryl will impair your driving even worse that pot, should this drug should be criminalized? And while you're telling me pot can cause car accidents, it was never THC found in anyone's system during the autopsy, was it?

Cannabis was legal long ago but why don't we ever hear of the stuff being abused then? Surely, we'd have (pre-industrial) news articles warning people against this plant still around. You couldn't find me one. The earliest claim about the negative effects of marijuana came from Henry Anslinger, our nations first Drug Czar, who said something about when smoked, the plant makes black and latino men rape white women, or something like that. This liar came into power during the industrial era. Seriously, the most dimwitted brainwashed fool should at least start to realize that there are dots that need connecting by now.

Yes, were the conversation about medical uses. Pro-tip: Its not. We, and certainly I, am discussing marijuana use as a recreational drug, which, by definition, implies no functionality other than pleasure.

As to your comments about benadryl, that perfectly conforms to my argument. With drugs like benadryl, or adderol, or oxycotin, society has said just what I mentioned : 'The risks are outweighed by the benefits.' There is nothing wrong with doing that; like I said, society does it all the time. The simple truth is however that that careful weighing and actual decision needs to be made. Pro-pot people rock their rose-tinted glasses too well, which ends up weakening their position to the public and is part of what still keeps it illegal. The pro-pot community does a terrible job of doing what any good argument should, and that's acknowledge problems in your argument, weigh and balance, and present why your position prevails, problems notwithstanding.

As an aside, yes, THC has been found in autopsies. And if you read about books which do mention use of marijuana (again, since its use was never mainstream recreational like booze or tobacco, is limited) we find people discussing abuse of the drug. One I recommend to you is titled "The Good Ol' Days: They Were Terrible!". A nice read which discusses, among other things, the ludicrous stuff people used to use and sneak into people as medicine and the extent of vices during the industrial era.
Its strongly doubtful that our nation would have any major problems that would be caused if pot were legal. How do I know? Because we already have states where pot is legal to some degree. And what do we find? Firstly, there is a study suggesting that states which legalized marijuana have fewer car accidents than states with tough marijuana laws and secondly, the former states don't experience a spike in crime but rather, the opposite. And (you'll love this one) months after the legalization of recreational use of bud, neither Washington nor Colorado are having any problems caused by the plant, whereas by now, a several hundred thousands were killed by alcohol, tobacco, drug overdoses from FDA approved products and so on. Thus, in the states where cannabis use is decriminalized, we find nothing that would make government officials say "this was a huge mistake."

This argument has run it's course. Pot is widely illegal because it's benefits outweigh it's risks, not the other way around. End of story.
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Usurper Of Thrones
Its strongly doubtful that our nation would have any major problems that would be caused if pot were legal. How do I know? Because we already have states where pot is legal to some degree. And what do we find? Firstly, there is a study suggesting that states which legalized marijuana have fewer car accidents than states with tough marijuana laws and secondly, the former states don't experience a spike in crime but rather, the opposite. And (you'll love this one) months after the legalization of recreational use of bud, neither Washington nor Colorado are having any problems caused by the plant, whereas by now, a several hundred thousands were killed by alcohol, tobacco, drug overdoses from FDA approved products and so on. Thus, in the states where cannabis use is decriminalized, we find nothing that would make government officials say "this was a huge mistake."

This argument has run it's course. Pot is widely illegal because it's benefits outweigh it's risks, not the other way around. End of story.

you can't even overdose on pot. pot is not addictive.. people are so misinformed. the only health risk is caused by smoking it, and that's caused by breathing in smoke, not from the actual plant itself.
alcohol kills way more people than any other substance, even cigarettes.
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Dezga 34527
alcohol causes waaaaay more problems than marijuana. there are so many alcohol related deaths. how many marijuana related deaths can you think of?

None, because there aren't any lmao. Alcohol is a million times worse for you than marijuana is x.x it's only a matter of time before the prohibition starts up again and weed is legal in every state razz i plan on smoking a nice fatty in front of a government building when that happens XD rofl rofl
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I don't really think this is a good comparison. "Weed" has been in a legal ban for a very long time, while Alcohol has already been there and done that. Prohibition was an act that was passed in our government a long time ago in which Alcohol was an illegal substance. It worked out for a little while but then bootlegging got big and to be absolutely truthful made the matter of drinking a lot worse. More crimes so on and so forth.

While it can be true to say that inhalant drug does not do as much damage to the body as any Alcohols do. There was a recent case where a friend and coworker of mine went to prison (still in there) after smoking that particular narcotic and beating his wife for no real reason other than to do so. She had tried to get him to stop smoking but it did not work out and now he is in prison.

The idea of prohibition starting again wouldn't work as stated before it would just make problems worse. A person may in fact be a very brilliant individual but human's as a whole in a society are absolutely dumb, they lack intelligence. Take something away from them that has been given to them for so long, something they have become dependent on in most of their lives, and it will cripple their minds. Regression will start and riots so on and so forth will go on.

Honestly this argument seems to be invalid considering there is a type of legalized weed that circulates (at least here in Texas there is) While it might not be as potent as the other stuff(wouldn't know myself) beggars can't be choosers.

All in all the result of what any drug will do to a person depends on the person. Most results depend on the personality of said person. I say most results because ODing on anything will just cause death no matter who you are or how you think.

While I do drink and don't smoke I can not defend either of these habits as being a good thing. I myself have never done a single thing that would throw me in prison for drinking (other than drinking under age in the past). Yet some people drink, get into fights, kill others, so on and so forth. Marijuana can alter ones perception on reality which in itself can be extremely dangerous. Alcohol straight forward messes with peoples senses no doubt about that and makes them a bit more...bold to what their actions would normally be.

If Marijuana became legal to be frank a lot of people would just stop smoking it: It would lose all the thrill, it's not going against any sort of authority and people may encourage you to do it without a possible threat of punishment. Just like Prohibition. When it was instated the Nation saw more drinkers than they ever did once Alcohol was legalized once again. While people do it for recreation a lot of the people do it because others tell them not to. That is a part of human nature.

While I can not even hope to convince anyone who is wishing for weed to be legalized I am just sharing my thoughts on the subject that is all.
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It's probably been stated before, but marijuana is illegal because in the late 20th century, after the civil war, a concession was made to the Southerners who still believed in King Cotton outlawing marijuana as a competitor. It's stuck around until now through propaganda calling it evil and the reason for evil which was further extrapolated on by Nixon and later Nancy Reagan when the "War on Drugs" was announced.
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Dakotapikpik
It's probably been stated before, but marijuana is illegal because in the late 20th century, after the civil war, a concession was made to the Southerners who still believed in King Cotton outlawing marijuana as a competitor. It's stuck around until now through propaganda calling it evil and the reason for evil which was further extrapolated on by Nixon and later Nancy Reagan when the "War on Drugs" was announced.

I tipped you for not only knowing your history but knowing what the word extrapolated meant and using it correctly.
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The Crimson Redemption
Dakotapikpik
It's probably been stated before, but marijuana is illegal because in the late 20th century, after the civil war, a concession was made to the Southerners who still believed in King Cotton outlawing marijuana as a competitor. It's stuck around until now through propaganda calling it evil and the reason for evil which was further extrapolated on by Nixon and later Nancy Reagan when the "War on Drugs" was announced.

I tipped you for not only knowing your history but knowing what the word extrapolated meant and using it correctly.

You're too kind.
Trayvon Martin.
Wizrar's avatar

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Dezga 34527
alcohol causes waaaaay more problems than marijuana. there are so many alcohol related deaths. how many marijuana related deaths can you think of?


I can think of one.
But that guy was both drunk and high.
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Noxidot
hahahalolwut
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Cannabis is illegal because anyone can produce it and if anyone can produce it, no one would buy cigarettes or alcohol anymore causing big businesses to go to s**t.


...you can make your own alcohol and tobacco.

It's a much more time consuming process than growing marijuana though.


Yes and all the added chemicals in tobacco make it expensive to reproduce just on the sheer variety of s**t in cigs. The fact that there is no nutrition labels on cigs or chew makes it almost impossible to determine the ingredients. Nicotine addiction is a pretty easy habit to kick, but the real problem is besides the nicotine obvie you really don't know what it is you are addicted to.

I'm not saying the goverment has controlled our minds into paying a "Sin" tax but it's something to ponder.

And as for cannabis being illegal -Smoking with the president-
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Dezga 34527
alcohol causes waaaaay more problems than marijuana. there are so many alcohol related deaths. how many marijuana related deaths can you think of?


I can think of one.
But that guy was both drunk and high.


I disagree no matter the circumstances of your argument. Cannabis did not cause the death the individual did. In any scenario possible the effects of the plant cannot and will not kill you. (And you said he was drunk also which doesn't help my post. BUT it most certainly does not help yours)

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