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Karma Faerie
I have been in many various religions devoting myself utterly to them, but after many years I became agnostic. What is said is true and I think many people misconcieve the true meaning. It is to give people a sorce of hope and faith when they need support, not to condemn everyone to damnation. So people, please, I beseech you, know your religion and then come preach to us, ok? 3nodding



are you talking to me? because if so...i'm sorry i had to rewrite my post, as i realzied a few words that were mistyped...however if you want my full plate of beliefs I'd be glad to share them with you....
Demon_Flare
in leviticus 18 22 it clearly states "do not practice homsexuality for it is a detestable sin or niv 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.


Woot! Fodder for linaloki's bombardment!

Quote:
Topic 2, Leviticus: Christian Law?

Leviticus 19:27, NIV
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.


So. Those that shave are sinning.

Leviticus 19:19, NIV
Keep my decrees.
Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.


So. Those that crop in cycles, wear polyester cotton mixes, or breed mules are sinning.

Leviticus 15, NIV
The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has a bodily discharge, the discharge is unclean. Whether it continues flowing from his body or is blocked, it will make him unclean. This is how his discharge will bring about uncleanness:

" 'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and anything he sits on will be unclean. Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever sits on anything that the man with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Whoever touches the man who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'If the man with the discharge spits on someone who is clean, that person must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Everything the man sits on when riding will be unclean, and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'A clay pot that the man touches must be broken, and any wooden article is to be rinsed with water.

" 'When a man is cleansed from his discharge, he is to count off seven days for his ceremonial cleansing; he must wash his clothes and bathe himself with fresh water, and he will be clean. On the eighth day he must take two doves or two young pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and give them to the priest. The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the LORD for the man because of his discharge.

" 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.

" 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

" 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.

" 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

" 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.

" 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.' "

These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


So. Semen is "unclean". Women on periods must be cast out due to their uncleanliness.

Leviticus 11, NIV
The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.

" 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. The coney, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

" 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales-whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water-you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

" 'These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

" 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.

" 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Every animal that has a split hoof not completely divided or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. They are unclean for you.

" 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. Any food that could be eaten but has water on it from such a pot is unclean, and any liquid that could be drunk from it is unclean. Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.

" 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches the carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.

" 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "


So. You can't eat lobster or crawfish. Or pork.

So why just pick at the verses against homosexuals? Oh, by the way. Christians do not have to follow Levitican Law.


Have any evidence against what was said?
i read an article explaining creationism
the evidence for it was that dust settles on earth at a constant rate. thereby it also settles on the moon at a constant rate.
astronauts expected several feet of dust when they landed on the moon, but only found a few inches. proving that the universe was created only a few thousand years ago
Demon_Flare
death_by_hammer
NOt every christian believes there is a hell....well not that hell is a fiery place of torment anyways...hell to some christians is simply death...

And now, Homosexuality may be a sin, but why would god send homoseuxuals to hell just for commiting that sin, when thousands of straight people commit sins everyday some worse then homosexuality, why would god punish someone for being happy? ok take this possibility:

A very very rich man is head of a huge corporation, and he's gay, however him and his partner gerously donate to many charities, and often take visits to third world nations to help the kids as unicef ambassadors, and donate huge sums to all these different causes...would god really send these people to burn all because of them being gay, when they hwelped so much in the world???

but thats if you believe that hell really is a place of fiery torment....however I don't...as I have already stated...yes I am christian but i would really not like to get into what denomination or what all of my beliefs are....cause that would be a thread worthy topic on it's own....
you dont get into heaven by your good deeds just by simply accepting god into ur heart and acknowledging that jeus died 4 ur sins. and if ur gay thats a sin and ur going to hell. the reason so many christians that sin cuz yes were all sinners dont go to hell is because they ask for forgiveness. now if ur going to ask for forgiveness and repeatedly do what your doing wrong then it doesnt work like that


Actually, according to this article, you're incorrect.

the article
...when Jesus was asked about the criteria for admission to eternity, he offered a fourfold answer: love God with all that you are, love your neighbor (like the Samaritan loved his neighbor), do God's will by obeying his moral commands, and be willing, if he asks, to drop everything and leave it behind in order to follow him....Jesus never taught easy believism. Whether he was telling the rich young ruler to sell all and follow him or telling a miracle-hungry crowd near Capernaum that to do the work of God was, yes, to believe on him (John 6:28-29), he called people to abandon their own agenda and trust him radically. Radical trust calls for both belief and action.
(emphasis mine)

God's moral code, according to the teachings of Jesus, does not include Leviticus and nowhere does it say that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore showing love and charity ARE mandates of getting into heaven. Showing acceptance and not judging people ARE mandates of heaven. Thanks.
bootslof2
i read an article explaining creationism
the evidence for it was that dust settles on earth at a constant rate. thereby it also settles on the moon at a constant rate.
astronauts expected several feet of dust when they landed on the moon, but only found a few inches. proving that the universe was created only a few thousand years ago


Except that the Moon has 1/6th the gravity of Earth and is hypothesized to have been a fragment broken off when an object about the size of Mars collided with the proto-Earth. Also, if it is a factor, the Moon lacks an atmosphere.
death_by_hammer
Merc Pip Bernadotte
Demon_Flare
death_by_hammer
NOt every christian believes there is a hell....well not that hell is a fiery place of torment anyways...hell to some christians is simply death...

And now, Homosexuality may be a sin, but why would god send homoseuxuals to hell just for commiting that sin, when thousands of straight people commit sins everyday some worse then homosexuality, why would god punish someone for being happy? ok take this possibility:

A very very rich man is head of a huge corporation, and he's gay, however him and his partner gerously donate to many charities, and often take visits to third world nations to help the kids as unicef ambassadors, and donate huge sums to all these different causes...would god really send these people to burn all because of them being gay, when they hwelped so much in the world???

but thats if you believe that hell really is a place of fiery torment....however I don't...as I have already stated...yes I am christian but i would really not like to get into what denomination or what all of my beliefs are....cause that would be a thread worthy topic on it's own....
you dont get into heaven by your good deeds just by simply accepting god into ur heart and acknowledging that jeus died 4 ur sins. and if ur gay thats a sin and ur going to hell. the reason so many christians that sin cuz yes were all sinners dont go to hell is because they ask for forgiveness. now if ur going to ask for forgiveness and repeatedly do what your doing wrong then it doesnt work like that

Your proof that being gay is a sin?



i'd say that the part of the bible most people use to say that homosexuality is a sin is this one the aprt in Leviticus (20:13) that it is a sin....
it's wording differs according to version....but mine says:

"And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them."
----Taken from Leviticus 20:13 of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

However 1st peter 2:16 says that "you are slaves to no one but God" so i would interpret that as only god is the true judge, so only he can determine right from wrong no matter what anyone else says...

However everything is based on interpretation....because in my beliefs god gives mankind free will, so why would man be punished for exercising the free will, and doing soemthing they are happy for???? it's all based on interpretation...i still firmly believe that homosexuality is not a sin, as i do not believe that God would punish someone for being happy....



I've not heard of the New World Translation, and it doesn't appear on biblegateway.com. What denomination of Christianity are you?

Secondly, being gay is not a choice. It's genetic.


Sexuality and Choice
- Wikipedia on Sexual Orientation
- Gay Men Respond Differently to Pheremones
- Gay Men's Brains Found Different
- The Homosexual Brain
- APA on Homosexuality
- Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
- Homosexuality-A Natural Cause?
- A Difference in Hypothalmic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men (study published in Science, 253: 1034-1037, 1991)
- NewScientist.com: Pheromone attracts straight women and gay men
- Sexuality Is Not A Choice
- APA On Sexuality
- Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture
- Twin Studies of Homosexuality
...

Jedediah, I will get to you and your flagrant misrepresentations of my beliefs.

To anyone who has said at any point: "Ananel hasn't responded yet. That means you're wrong," I've been effectively gone since the Advent season. It was a self-imposed haitus, combined with the fact that I almost NEVER come to Extended Discussion.

My silence means precisely d**k. I came back after a 3 month haitus I needed, and within 24 hours of my return, Jedediah has been flung in my face, and Barraketh's idiocy has been shoved beneath my nose.

You people have not made me a happy camper. Don't expect the punches to be pulled this time. Jedediah should have ******** KNOWN BETTER THAN TO LIE ABOUT ME BY NOW.
Ananel
...

Jedediah, I will get to you and your flagrant misrepresentations of my beliefs.

To anyone who has said at any point: "Ananel hasn't responded yet. That means you're wrong," I've been effectively gone since the Advent season. It was a self-imposed haitus, combined with the fact that I almost NEVER come to Extended Discussion.

My silence means precisely d**k. I came back after a 3 month haitus I needed, and within 24 hours of my return, Jedediah has been flung in my face, and Barraketh's idiocy has been shoved beneath my nose.

You people have not made me a happy camper. Don't expect the punches to be pulled this time. Jedediah should have ******** KNOWN BETTER THAN TO LIE ABOUT ME BY NOW.


I'm sorry if I offended you, I only asked if there was an existing rebuttal to his thesis. As for your busyness, I would think it shows how vital you are to about.... a full third of the ED. xD
Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori
I'm sorry if I offended you, I only asked if there was an existing rebuttal to his thesis. As for your busyness, I would think it shows how vital you are to about.... a full third of the ED. xD


Jedediah's phlegm is old. I am currently compiling the totality of his arguments with me. Honestly, the man stopped logging on back in December of last year. He and I parted on terse but silent terms, when he demanded I offer him my credentials, which I refuse to do on Gaia.

I have responded to him quite some time ago, and it appears that this is not new material on his part...
linaloki's avatar
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Ananel
...

Jedediah, I will get to you and your flagrant misrepresentations of my beliefs.

To anyone who has said at any point: "Ananel hasn't responded yet. That means you're wrong," I've been effectively gone since the Advent season. It was a self-imposed haitus, combined with the fact that I almost NEVER come to Extended Discussion.

My silence means precisely d**k. I came back after a 3 month haitus I needed, and within 24 hours of my return, Jedediah has been flung in my face, and Barraketh's idiocy has been shoved beneath my nose.

You people have not made me a happy camper. Don't expect the punches to be pulled this time. Jedediah should have ******** KNOWN BETTER THAN TO LIE ABOUT ME BY NOW.


O_O

Welcome back, Ananel? Whatever the silly people say, I still appreciate your help on these matters... (Note: You're in my thread! O_O)
Woah...back up...what the hell did I just miss?
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar
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linaloki
(Note: You're in my thread! O_O)


I know. eek Isn't that an honor?
linaloki
O_O

Welcome back, Ananel? Whatever the silly people say, I still appreciate your help on these matters... (Note: You're in my thread! O_O)


Linaloki... where the hell was this old thread? Jedediah hasn't been on Gaia since December of last year. Is this that hideous, misrepresenting bullshit I hammered the son of a b***h for doing in his journal an age and a half ago? I remember that, back some time ago, he decided to lie at my expence and misrepresent everything I believed in a journal article and refuse anyone the right to respond. I publicly called him out in a thread on that particular bit of lies and fallacies ages ago:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10951603&

Jedediah and I had a long and storied past for a while. The man was a calvinist bordering on a 7th day adventist with an almost painful perspective. *sighs* I will hammer out a detailed response to his individual points once more, for clarity's sake, but realistically seeing someone having brought him back indicates that people have chosen to hold onto copies of his old arguments with me, pretending that my persistent refutations did not exist.

I was actually accused of sneaking around and finding his threads for a while (I was. He was defaming my character for about a year in '05-'06.).

But yeah... give me a few days. There's a bit to dissemble in this ancient bit of phlegm.
TrunkstheSlayer
Woah...back up...what the hell did I just miss?


Oh, I think Elf_Lord and a few others ran across a citation of one of Jedediah Smith's old arguments with me, bereft of my voluminous responses to him. It makes me worry that people continue to use him as a response to me, even though I have refuted him time and again.

Heck... he's been gone for months and I don't think he had plans to return, honestly.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar
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Ananel
linaloki
O_O

Welcome back, Ananel? Whatever the silly people say, I still appreciate your help on these matters... (Note: You're in my thread! O_O)


Linaloki... where the hell was this old thread? Jedediah hasn't been on Gaia since December of last year. Is this that hideous, misrepresenting bullshit I hammered the son of a b***h for doing in his journal an age and a half ago? I remember that, back some time ago, he decided to lie at my expence and misrepresent everything I believed in a journal article and refuse anyone the right to respond. I publicly called him out in a thread on that particular bit of lies and fallacies ages ago:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10951603&

Jedediah and I had a long and storied past for a while. The man was a calvinist bordering on a 7th day adventist with an almost painful perspective. *sighs* I will hammer out a detailed response to his individual points once more, for clarity's sake, but realistically seeing someone having brought him back indicates that people have chosen to hold onto copies of his old arguments with me, pretending that my persistent refutations did not exist.

I was actually accused of sneaking around and finding his threads for a while (I was. He was defaming my character for about a year in '05-'06.).

But yeah... give me a few days. There's a bit to dissemble in this ancient bit of phlegm.


Well, I cannot say for certain, that Jedediah was a Calvinist. He and I had a debate on whether or not predestination was Biblical. He later did accept predestination.

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