Dukonnaire
@Gho the Girl: Sorry, I lack the formatting skills to carry to a quote war.
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But thank you for your honest reply.
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I'll just reply to each of your points in a list.
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Yeah, and it's not like there's a bunch of straight guys looking down on gay guys for "faggotry" or anything.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm straight. Sorry.
razz That's irrelevant. Some gay men look down on straight men, and some straight men look down on gay men.
Whoop de ******** doo.
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See, now this is just self-limiting. Many men have pushed and grown these fields by leaps and bounds.
What you're proposing is limiting self-expression and identifying. Should men all really just try and fit into the small boxes we've built for ourselves?
Women freed themselves from societal expectations, when the hell are men going to catch up?
This is a thinking process that I believe the gays have received from the feminists. They believe that - since women have come so far - men should follow suit and change.
But exactly what kind of change is beneficial? They seem to think that the "sensitive New-Age guy" is the way to go, but if all the guys were SNGs who wanted to be hairdressers and dancers, then society would fail.
If all women were automechanics, society would fail!
Holy appeal to ridicule Batman!
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Society of any kind (be it human, wolf, buffalo, etc.) needs strongly male males and strongly female females to function properly.
But it doesn't need all males to be strong males, nor does it require all females to be strong females. There's enough space for everyone to be themselves.
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Women need to be what men are programmed to be attracted to - ample breasts (for being able to feed his young), ample hips (for being able to house his young), and so on.
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Het men have different tastes in women.
Some like manly women, some like sub women, some like women who are also into women.
It isn't possible for any woman to be what men want, as what men want is so wide spread and self-contradictory.
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Society depends on having feminine females so that men will be attracted to them and mate with them.
Funny, but even masculine straight women are getting laid with enough frequency as to not impede the spread of the human race.
Your protests are coming across as stupid.
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Society ALSO depends on having masculine males, who are fertile (to fertilise the female), strong (so that they can defend their families), and so on. Polar opposites are necessary for society to function.
Actually, no, they aren't. Societies tend to work better if there are strings of similarity between members of the society. Otherwise, it becomes self-conflicting. Even Democrats and Republicans have strings of similarity. If half of this society was Anarchist and the other Totalitarion, guess what? You'd have a conflict, and if current history can be used as an indicator, civil war would break out.
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(please don't talk to me about ugly women or weak men. That's not where my thoughts are at the moment. Women who are attractive in one way or another are far more common than quintessentially undesirable women, and the same goes for men.)
Desirability is relative to the desirer. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what straight men, assumptions that a lot of striaght men would disagree with.
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So, in effect, what feminists are trying to do is make males see things from their point of view. To make them more feminine. This would ultimately be detrimental to society.
That's not what feminists are trying to do. Advocates of freedom of gender/sexual identity approve of people defining themselves according to their own desires instead of outside influences.
People don't exist in black and white and polar opposites, they exist in spectrums. Some women are naturally feminine, and some women are naturally masculine, and this isn't even touching the queer community. And funny enough, for every type of woman, there's a straight man who's into that. I've met enough straight guys to confirm this.
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Admittedly, there are some straight men who are able to embrace femininity in one way or another. But this is an exception, rather than the rule. Men should not be forced into changing by these feminists, since it would not be noticeably beneficial to society.
Inny belly buttons aren't noticeably beneficial to society. Thankfully, worth is not merely defined by benefit to society. Writing in a journal isn't noticeably beneficial to society. Singing to yourself while in the elevator alone isn't noticeably beneficial to society.
If we were to follow your flimsy argument, we'd have to shun inny belly buttons, journal writing, singing to oneself in the elevator, snapping fingers, whistling, growing long hair, growing short hair, etc etc etc.
Fortunately, we have common sense.
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And all the straight men who dance/hairdress/design/do any activity you deem "unmanly" do it for . . .what then?
Are you going to tell me that their defiance of social expectations is following social expectations?
As I said in my edit of that post (which you would've missed since you clicked "Quote" before I managed to change it), I said "in most cases". The fact still remains that the men who do these things are gay, more often than not.
Not to my notice. IN fact, if what you were saying was true, I'd have gotten alot more action in highschool.
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didn't do ballet to attract men. I did it because i found it to be fun. That's all.
Further, plenty of straight men enjoy butch women. Loads of guys would love to date a woman who's into football, or car repair, belching, etc.
It's really not all that different.
I don't mean to make a personal attack here, but the way I see it, either you were genuinely interested in ballet, and you still would have been if you had turned out to be a straight male, OR, your mind thought you would enjoy it because of society's gentle nudging in that direction. It sounds contradictory, but I believe it is true.
I assure you it's the former.
Funny enough, I was homophobic when I was in ballet. I actually wanted gays to be killed and strung up. Yet I still loved dance.
Holy s**t, did I just blow your social theory out of the water?
Whoops.
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At one stage I thought I was genuinely interested in textiles. I designed throw cushions in a drawing pad. But after I experienced the clarity that provoked me to think this way and post here today, I realised that I was not at all interested in it. I thank my careers advisor in school for steering me away from choosing it as an elective.
I was one of those gays who was subconsciously told to like textiles. My unconscious brain told me that I would enjoy textiles. But now it knows better.
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If for some reason you've all logged off and don't reply before I leave, I thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. I truly am interested in your points of view; I came to ED to learn and find new perspectives.
Thanks again.
biggrin I think you're making a lot of assumptions about society, straight people, and hardiness or lack thereof of the human ability to procreate.
