Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin: What Christ Said And More

[Nation shaker]

Yuki The Uke

Nation shaker

linaloki

mluck24

Effiminate is a greek word meaning homosexual. Here are 27 different translations of this one verse stating homosexuality is a sin. From the New testament, not the "don't cut your hair" old testament in leviticus.

...effeminate is not even a Greek word. neutral

And strength in numbers doesn't mean you're correct... especially since some of the ones you have quoted don't say homosexuals. "Sexual pervert"? "Pederasts"? Seriously, did you read everything you quoted?

we need to b aware that when jesus died the old testiment does not apply to us n e more

...you can't even spell "be" correctly. Is that apathy, ignorance, or lazyness?

its out of lazyness im on my phone inter net and hate to type words on it cuz i dont have akey board

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Maiafay

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Maiafay

Actually, any sex outside marriage is immoral. Fornication is immoral. The fact that it's forced sex makes it even worse. Rape shows no love for your neighbor, yes? Therefore it's breaking the commandment to love one another.

If you go back a few pages, I think you'll find I'm still quite on the fence about FORNICATION being immoral and why. In fact, I'm not even on the fence- I'm enjoying all the pleasures fornication/God has to offer. So don't just say "actually" without responding to all the points I had made up until then plz; at least others TRIED to put up quotes.

I did put up a quote tagged with your name...so I'm not seeing the problem. I was responding to that point and only that point. It shouldn't be a prerequisite to "go back" several pages to filter through all the posts for my response to one single point pages later. Whatever argument you brought up I doubt I would agree with.

If it's your personal belief that fornication isn't a big deal, then that does go strictly against what the bible reflects on that subject.

There is a problem because if you're going to make a claim, you have to back it up.

Quote:

at least others TRIED to put up quotes.

See how easy it is to put in the extra effort to quote for a sound argument? Now you try doing the same with that claim there.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Herald of Lies

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

I think there's a reason why "sexual immorality" shows up on God's "Hayte" list, and yes, I think it's very cut and dry. I'm not going to take "sexual immorality" in context with the Jewish laws, because, once again, Jesus fulfilled them, I do not follow the laws of the Hebrews, and rather, I follow the law of Love. The reason why sexual immorality is railed against is because- well think about it. People are EASILY broken by sexual acts. It hurts so much, of course God would want to stop anything like rape or the kind of divorce that leaves someone abandoned.

If you don't take it in context with those laws, how exactly are we supposed to determine what is sexually immoral?

*headdesk* You know as well as I, being that you bring it up next.

Herald of Lies

If you simply say sexual stuff that does not fall under the Law of Agape, then why warn about sexual immorality and not the Law of Agape? It would simply go without saying would it not?

Yeah, wouldn't it? Unfortunately lots of humans are stupid and need to be told not to break other humans' hearts. This was something that Jesus knew they could see at the time. Even if governmental documentation is, in the end, a paltry way of joining souls, people tend to take it a bit more seriously than other ways and think twice about breaking it.

Herald of Lies

Clearly Jesus condemns adultery as well, or at least is that not how it appears in that passage? And what is adultery? Having sex with someone you aren't married to.

No, my dear, that is fornication, which is in and of itself now something of a cacophemism when it used to be a euphemism. Frankly, I think many of you are getting caught up in labels that you refuse to understand within cultural context, or you will mix up contexts from ancient to modern times. Fornication no more holds the same meaning now than tyrant does for what it once did in Rome. Tyrant used to be a positive word, and fornication used to be a word used for PROSTITUTION in Rome then, and, before that, SLAVERY. Hardly a positive way to have sex. Now, we view it differently because we have a new culture. Unmarried sex between consenting adults, whether either is/has been married. Adultery, in this passage, is merely sex after having ripped and separated yourself from UNION with another. An adulterer is a moichos. When they also willingly commit become a moichos with the absence of love, it is pornea.

Herald of Lies"

And to make clear the importance of marriage we just need to look at the next passage:

Matthew 5:31-32

"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

If the part about divorce was to protect people from being abandoned why exactly is anyone who remarries the woman an adulterer now?

Because she's already an adulteress, thanks to the divorce, of course, and so that is quite literally what happened. Her soul was one with another, and it has been rent as it should not have been, and now it would be attempting to join with another. It is just technically what is happening. It does not mean that it is necessarily her fault (Jesus doesn't specify in this instance) or that it is porneia in all situations, but it is still adultery. Divorce does not separate souls. I do not think Jesus is trying to discourage taking care of a woman, by any means, after she has been divorced. But she will be committing adultery and joining her already-joined soul with yet another. Which then brings him into the loop. Very simple.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

ty_ping

Okay.

Lets start this afresh.

Now God does claim to be with us at all times. Is Psalms 139 David calls out that there is no place that he can go that is away from the spirit of God. Jeremiah 23 God says that he is a being that fills the heaven and the earth, Jesus says in Matthew 6 that if you fully give yourself to God you must become like birds or lilies of the field in that God still cares for them, gives them food and shelter so we do not need to seek anything but God, that he will provide all things. So in that aspect you are right in that there are no other Gods but God and that all things are God.
However, Idolatry is taking a gift from God and putting it in place of giving praise to the gift giver. The Bible tells us to give everything to God, EVERYTHING (Deut 6, Mat 22, Mark 12, Luke 10) focusing on an idol, even for a moment, even with the knowledge that it's going to God anyway isn't directly, quickly and efficiently giving everything to God.

biggrin I think we're getting somewhere. I agree.

ty_ping

It's like being told to deliver some ice cream to Sally, and then giving some to Bob because he's related to Sally and taking a walk around the park before you finally head over to Sally's house. Sure you've still given her the ice cream, but did you do it with the amount of conviction that "All your heart soul and mind" commands of you?

Yes. Because Bob is a part of Sally. As Jesus said, whatever you do unto even the lowliest person, you do unto me. Therefore, it is certainly loving towards God to spend time with a friend. If, however, Sally had tonsillitis and needed it right away, I would not dilly dally with Bob.

ty_ping

If you loved me and we were talking and you were staring at my breasts while we spoke, and I told you to stop. It doesn't matter how much you love me, how dedicated you are to me, isn't it mighty disrespectful to stare directly at my tits when we speak especially if I've told you on numerous occasions that my eyes are in my face and not nestled between my cleavage.

Now I think you're just being silly. Staring at your cleavage would not be following the Law of Love. But if your really want to use this analogy- clearly, some people, like Rachel, ARE allowed to stare at God's tits. And I don't do so any more than she does. It is not as though I put Dionysos or Krishna above YHWH when I enjoy what is part of their domain. I merely recognize it. Dionysos is the liberator, and I enjoy being liberated by getting drunk wink It doesn't mean I hold him above YHWH as an investment banker would hold money over Him.

Nor do I bow down to any physical representation any more than I do the entire universe in thanks for what God has provided. Why would I need to when God is all around me? Why would he want me to? Clearly, he doesn't, as you've said, because when one has a physical representation one tends to blow it out of proportion. I agree with David that one should lift their hearts directly to God Himself, who is all around us. It really isn't physical idols I'm trying to defend; I never would other than as to use them as art insofar as we use crucifixes.

ty_ping

Even if you know in your mind that Dionysis is God as God is all things and all Gods, it's an act of redundancy to bother to do it. Would I talk to your shoe in order to talk to you? Why not? It's your shoe and you might be in the room at the time. Would I address your breasts every time I want to talk to you directly? Wouldn't you find it terribly rude if I only spoke to your mother or faced a wall when trying to talk to you? If you wouldn't accept it than why should God? ESPECIALLY when you are talking to his chest/wall/shoe and still claiming to be dedicated to him with all your heart soul and mind. Doesn't seem very dedicated when you ignore what he says and talk to objects instead of him directly.

Well, I find it terribly difficult to enter a total state of Being, and can usually only achieve it after a couple weeks of "fasting". I feel that I have even "seen" (A faulty English representation) the "universal form" of God, and experienced direct connection with him in at least that way, though I could not comprehend or remember much afterwards. Therefore, I do not think it unreasonable to seek God through the portions of Himself he offers us in the physical universe and waking world whenever I am not in meditation, whether in the form of sexual union or enjoying something that I am eating or enjoying a sunset or listening to music or even creating something of my own. One can't be a total ascetic wink Then you'd just be like the slave who didn't invest his master's bank note or enjoy it. I don't consider Dionysos to be the shoe, either, so much as a different part of anatomy... XDDD

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

I saw that some people were debating the word arsenokoites. I think it is worth stating here and now that NO Greek scholar with whom I have spoken has EVER been able to translate that word with surety wink

The woman I trust the most would be the woman who lived in Greece and knew modern Greek first and who has been studying the Greek language and religion for nigh on eighty years now... okay, maybe not that long, but she LOOKS like she could be that old. Anyway, I discussed this with her too of course because I feel certain topics are misunderstood in today's culture. So far as the consensus goes, it would merely be a word like malakos, which is to say, a sort of insult that would now equate to "p***y". The Greeks were not fond of "pussies" because they don't defend what's good and right. wink Being that Paul made it up, though, he could really have meant something as silly as "people who take naps too much", I dunno.

[Anakha the Silver]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

I saw that some people were debating the word arsenokoites. I think it is worth stating here and now that NO Greek scholar with whom I have spoken has EVER been able to translate that word with surety wink

The woman I trust the most would be the woman who lived in Greece and knew modern Greek first and who has been studying the Greek language and religion for nigh on eighty years now... okay, maybe not that long, but she LOOKS like she could be that old. Anyway, I discussed this with her too of course because I feel certain topics are misunderstood in today's culture. So far as the consensus goes, it would merely be a word like malakos, which is to say, a sort of insult that would now equate to "p***y". The Greeks were not fond of "pussies" because they don't defend what's good and right. wink Being that Paul made it up, though, he could really have meant something as silly as "people who take naps too much", I dunno.

In what study I've done on the word, it seems to refer to abusive same-sex relationships where one has some sort of authority or (major) advantage over the other in some way.

[Desdamona_the_beautiful]

linaloki
I'm impressed by your research

[Bento the spazcat]

Nation shaker

Yuki The Uke

Nation shaker

linaloki

mluck24

Effiminate is a greek word meaning homosexual. Here are 27 different translations of this one verse stating homosexuality is a sin. From the New testament, not the "don't cut your hair" old testament in leviticus.

...effeminate is not even a Greek word. neutral

And strength in numbers doesn't mean you're correct... especially since some of the ones you have quoted don't say homosexuals. "Sexual pervert"? "Pederasts"? Seriously, did you read everything you quoted?

we need to b aware that when jesus died the old testiment does not apply to us n e more

...you can't even spell "be" correctly. Is that apathy, ignorance, or lazyness?

its out of lazyness im on my phone inter net and hate to type words on it cuz i dont have akey board

Whoop de do. I have posted from my mp3 player, and still spelled correctly. Turn on t9.

[Isaac488]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Maiafay

Actually, any sex outside marriage is immoral. Fornication is immoral. The fact that it's forced sex makes it even worse. Rape shows no love for your neighbor, yes? Therefore it's breaking the commandment to love one another.

If you go back a few pages, I think you'll find I'm still quite on the fence about FORNICATION being immoral and why. In fact, I'm not even on the fence- I'm enjoying all the pleasures fornication/God has to offer. So don't just say "actually" without responding to all the points I had made up until then plz; at least others TRIED to put up quotes.

I thought Ty and loki DID put up quotes as to why it's immoral.

sex outside of marriage/with other people while married = adultery/fornication = sin

Then perhaps you missed that I have a differing interpretation of those quotes. I believe they were speaking only of fornication which did not follow the Law of Love. I believe there are types which certainly may and are holy and worship God well.

I don't think it matters how you personally believe something or not. God just says "don't do it" not "don't do it unless you are glorifying me doing it"

God sez don't have homogeysecks!

...really, if you're not even going to try to address anything I'm actually saying with some kind of valid refutation? Please try to at least prove something.

Commandment #7
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

I think that's pretty plain as day don't you.

[xLady Tsukiyox]

mluck24

Nation shaker

linaloki

mluck24

Effiminate is a greek word meaning homosexual. Here are 27 different translations of this one verse stating homosexuality is a sin. From the New testament, not the "don't cut your hair" old testament in leviticus.

...effeminate is not even a Greek word. neutral

And strength in numbers doesn't mean you're correct... especially since some of the ones you have quoted don't say homosexuals. "Sexual pervert"? "Pederasts"? Seriously, did you read everything you quoted?

we need to b aware that when jesus died the old testiment does not apply to us n e more

being a sexual pervert and being a pederasts is a sin, along with being a homosexual. a sexual pervert also is a homosexual, because it is twisting what is supposed to happen. Also, the old testament should NOT be discarded because of Jesus. Both versions are true and still hold virtue. As the time has rolled on, sure haircuts are not a sin. but there are stories like shadrach meshac and abednigo in the old testament showing that God is true. And there are many other stories and history is learned in the bible. Also there are virtues and morals learned in the old testament, although the extraneous ones, such as haircuts, may not be valid anymore.

Being a sexual pervert means that you like sex. There are homosexuals who abstain from sex therefore they're not committing a sin.

[xLady Tsukiyox]

mluck24

Effiminate is a greek word meaning homosexual. Here are 27 different translations of this one verse stating homosexuality is a sin. From the New testament, not the "don't cut your hair" old testament in leviticus.

Okay let's look at the dictionary, shall we?

Quote:

Main Entry: 1ef·fem·i·nate
Pronunciation: -nət
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin effeminatus, from past participle of effeminare to make effeminate, from ex- + femina woman — more at feminine
Date: 15th century
1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement <effeminate art> <an effeminate civilization>

Now lets look at the etymology or origin of the word.

Quote:

Etymology: Middle English, from Latin effeminatus, from past participle of effeminare to make effeminate, from ex- + femina woman — more at feminine

Now according to this, origin of the word is LATIN not greek. And it also doesn't mean homosexual. Now let's go onto the definition.

Quote:

1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement <effeminate art> <an effeminate civilization>

Nowhere does it say anything about homosexuals. There are men who are straight and effeminate. I have friend who is very effeminate, he can cook clean, and he can sew. However he's not gay or bi. He is very much straight.

However in Paul's context the word effeminate refers to those who are not disciplined. Which can refer to heterosexuals.

Definition courtesy of m-w.com

[linaloki]

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

I thought Ty and loki DID put up quotes as to why it's immoral.

sex outside of marriage/with other people while married = adultery/fornication = sin

Then perhaps you missed that I have a differing interpretation of those quotes. I believe they were speaking only of fornication which did not follow the Law of Love. I believe there are types which certainly may and are holy and worship God well.

I don't think it matters how you personally believe something or not. God just says "don't do it" not "don't do it unless you are glorifying me doing it"

God sez don't have homogeysecks!

...really, if you're not even going to try to address anything I'm actually saying with some kind of valid refutation? Please try to at least prove something.

Commandment #7
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

I think that's pretty plain as day don't you.

...

Yeah, that quote works, too. >.<

[Isaac488]

linaloki

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

I thought Ty and loki DID put up quotes as to why it's immoral.

sex outside of marriage/with other people while married = adultery/fornication = sin

Then perhaps you missed that I have a differing interpretation of those quotes. I believe they were speaking only of fornication which did not follow the Law of Love. I believe there are types which certainly may and are holy and worship God well.

I don't think it matters how you personally believe something or not. God just says "don't do it" not "don't do it unless you are glorifying me doing it"

God sez don't have homogeysecks!

...really, if you're not even going to try to address anything I'm actually saying with some kind of valid refutation? Please try to at least prove something.

Commandment #7
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

I think that's pretty plain as day don't you.

...

Yeah, that quote works, too. >.<

You just like to over-complicate things ^^

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Isaac488

linaloki

Isaac488

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Isaac488

I don't think it matters how you personally believe something or not. God just says "don't do it" not "don't do it unless you are glorifying me doing it"

God sez don't have homogeysecks!

...really, if you're not even going to try to address anything I'm actually saying with some kind of valid refutation? Please try to at least prove something.

Commandment #7
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

I think that's pretty plain as day don't you.

...

Yeah, that quote works, too. >.<

You just like to over-complicate things ^^

So you don't wear polyester cotton blends either? Not that I disagree with the commandment. I'm just wondering why you defend something from Levitical law in accordance with Christ. Why not just use what he said? Which is also frowning upon adultery in the sense that one should not rend one's soul from another. And I never disagreed with that.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Anakha the Silver

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

I saw that some people were debating the word arsenokoites. I think it is worth stating here and now that NO Greek scholar with whom I have spoken has EVER been able to translate that word with surety wink

The woman I trust the most would be the woman who lived in Greece and knew modern Greek first and who has been studying the Greek language and religion for nigh on eighty years now... okay, maybe not that long, but she LOOKS like she could be that old. Anyway, I discussed this with her too of course because I feel certain topics are misunderstood in today's culture. So far as the consensus goes, it would merely be a word like malakos, which is to say, a sort of insult that would now equate to "p***y". The Greeks were not fond of "pussies" because they don't defend what's good and right. wink Being that Paul made it up, though, he could really have meant something as silly as "people who take naps too much", I dunno.

In what study I've done on the word, it seems to refer to abusive same-sex relationships where one has some sort of authority or (major) advantage over the other in some way.

Or it could have been male prostitutes. *shrug* It's totally up in the air. Your translation works just as well considering such relationships were a common way of expressing homosexual urges for the upperclass in Roman society.