Awaiting His Return
Elf Lord Chiewn
Awaiting His Return
Yoru Kurosawa
Awaiting His Return
Topic 4, New Testament: Condemning Gays?
Some will say that homosexuality falls under the category of sexual immorality, as mentioned in Acts 15:29. But commonly mistranslated for homosexuality is a section in Romans:
Umm... You kinda skipped over the parts of the verses that says homosexuality is a sin. Let me put them in color for you.
Your argument is... strange. Even if Adam and Eve weren't the first or only people, the Bible never gives account of a man "lying with" or "knowing" another man in a good context. It never gives account of God leading a man to another man.
Also, your argument about God supporting all love is just completely misused. Yes, God supports love. Sex... it isn't love. I love my brother, but... I mean, ya know? That's a silly argument. Love doesn't mean romantic love. We are commanded to love God, that doesn't mean we're to have physical relationships with Him. Do you understand what I'm saying? Your argument doesn't hold up. Despair turns into pain; anger turns into hate
Did you not take an English class? What do the words "Therefore" and "Because" mean?
EDIT: @Anakha Are you talking about the Centurion and his lover?
FURTHER EDIT: Back to the argument... Last I checked, God supports love. He never said what kind of love, which means it's an all-encompassing definition. Boy love, girl love, straight love, gay love, he doesn't care. Love is love is love. The other problem I have with your "argument" is that last I checked some people had sex to show their love to their partner. If you're saying that sex =/= love, then what the hell are straight people who love each other doing when they have sex?
Wait, let me guess... succumbing to lust! That's a sin no matter how you put it, doesn't matter who's doing it.
Revenge calls my name--spellbound by my rage
Look, I'm not trying to be hateful, and I know my answer seemed like it, but it did anger me (more than a little) about what I read. I should have been more careful with my words, and I'm sorry.
But I don't agree. God created sex for married people to enjoy, but He never spoke positively of gay sex in the Bible. If you can find otherwise, I'll be happy to read it.
He shouldn't have to.
Frankly, I don't have the time tonight to examine the Greek pertaining to the Centurion. As I generally prefer to stop short of but-it-speaks approvingly-of-homosexuality anyway, I'm just going to have to go ahead and let Ty fill you in on that manly chunk of the bible.
And yes, it is manly.
It is a very manly passage.
Moving on!
That's not how revealed religions work. If there is a revealed law against certain things, it stands to reason that the law is specific in its indictment and approach. And the law says nothing against gay sex in the way that it says nothing against heterosexual sex.
Since we're on the topic of known and revealed matters, could you support your claim that God created sex for married people to enjoy?
Awaiting His Return
Also, sex isn't love. Yes, married people have sex with each other
as a way of expressing their love, but sex in itself isn't love. You can go out and have sex with some random person you just met, and it doesn't mean you love them. Sex between married people isn't a sin either.
Why would sex between unmarried people be a sin, especially in today's society?
Our understanding of it does.
Considering the lack of so much as a concept for homosexuality, I do wonder why there is such a push to construe parts of the bible as anti-gay.
As to the writings therein, they most certainly do change in the sense that they are to and for specific audiences and under specific circumstances. This MUST be acknowledged and taken into account when reading anything. And the circumstances and audiences have changed greatly.
Scripture cannot mean the same for you as it did for the early Christian, or the disciples, or any of the ancient Israelites.
Awaiting His Return
God's Word doesn't change like cultures do. God expects us to uphold His Word despite what everyone around us is doing.
Considering how much we alter it in attempts to translate it for common consumption, I beg to differ.
If we are to uphold this word, we must determine what it says to the best of our ability and avoid unusual inferences and assumptions.
Awaiting His Return
The Bible speaks against adulterers and fornicators. Adultery is defined as "voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and a woman not his wife, or between a married woman and a man not her husband". Fornication is defined as "voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other".
But it does not say such things in the way you believe it does, and certainly not by an arbitrary subset of today's popular definitions.
Awaiting His Return
Here are verses that speak against both:
Matthew 5:27,28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery already in his heart." The Old Testament speaks against adultery in the Ten Commandments, and Jesus goes further to say that lusting after a woman is committing adultery in your heart.
And Yeshua was speaking to members of a society in which any such woman would have been married, and permanently. Furthermore, he is speaking to what he holds to be a corrupt society, bound by laws and twisting them. To lust after the woman of another would be to contemplate adultery, and by extension, this would be analogous to actually having sex with that woman.
Not in the sense of literal obedience (and lip service to) the law, but in the sense of respecting the spirit of the law. Commandments were not made against adultery in order that leering after one's neighbors' wives would be justified.
The entire speech to the (Jewish) crowds is also highly metaphorical.
Awaiting His Return
I Corinthians 6:9,10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effecminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Prove to me that pornos means fornication. I think that's bullshit, and I'll argue this to as great a depth as necessary to cover the linguistic and contextual problems here.
You're also citing Paul.
Bluntly put, he isn't YHWH, and neither is Yeshua (though Yeshua's words would be authoritative as far as Christianity is concerned and are more widely applicable).
