Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin: What Christ Said And More

[ty_ping]

rockmanx

linaloki

Welcome, all! Loki, here, to try to teach everyone a thing or two about a little religion I ascribe to. People think they know about it, and yet they fail to know even the most basic knowledge from this religions holy texts. I am, of course, talking about Christianity. It’s a religion that, in America, 83% of people claimed in 2004. Yet, out of that 83%, maybe only 40% can name the 10 Commandments. Shameful, isn’t it? Therefore, I’m going to try to give a little view of what Christianity at it’s most naked is. I won’t tell you that your denomination is wrong and mine is right. Rather, I will refer to the Bible, not denominational beliefs. Also, I will tend to only include books from the standard protestant Bible, NIV edition. If you have a problem with that, www.biblegateway.com has all the Bibles you could never read. It is to now be noted that this thread will be long. We’re going to cover a lot of subjects, including definitions of some terms, certain misconceptions popularly permeated through the Christian world, as well as defend Catholicism from those that would claim it is not Christianity. The posts will go as follows.

Post 1: Introduction
Post 2: Definitions
Post 3: Misconceptions About Homosexuality
Post 4: Big Misconceptions: About Hell and Abortion
Post 5: Misconceptions About the Literal Infallibility of the Modern Bible
Post 6: Misconceptions About Catholicism
Post 7: Other Misconceptions
Post 8: Other Threads on Christianity

I see you qoute the NIV which is not a good translation if anyhting,

I see you didn't read the rest of the OP (I know I know it is long) where he does go back to the original language and translate from there. it may be one of the worst out there. No that would most likely be the first King James, or the Bad Bible (I can't remember it's officialized name) where there were many misprints in it saying things like "Blessed are the adulturers"

Quote:

Go back to the Hebrew and the act of sex between two men is a sin

A nope.
and Jesus did state that the law will not pass till this Earth Age goes away. A nope.

Quote:

Now the law dealing with homosexual sex was a health law,

A-n...kinda but I wouldn't say "Health"

Quote:

that still in effect, to keep us health.

healthy.

And A Nope! Not unless women not wearing pants, men neve wearing makeup, never seeing your family members naked, reading your horoscope or the food laws are all "Still in effect" which then the big question of "What the hell did Jesus die for?" comes into quesion.

Quote:

Even the Hebrew text, in which the bible is translated from, says that it is un-natural.

Nope, no it doesn't. It says:

שאת-זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה תִעבה הוא

Which isn't what you think it is.

[ty_ping]

rockmanx

Lexenos the Bard

ty_ping

Lexenos the Bard

And animals don't apparently have souls and thus can't go to Heaven/Hell, and thus not all gays go to hell. =D

Temporarily sick of my flob.

Acctually, they do have souls and can go to heaven or hell.


(Haven't you seen the movie "All dogs go to heaven"? Oddly enough, biblical.)

0.o I must be reading the wrong thing, or remembering what I read wrong. Do you have a verse?

Temporarily sick of my flob.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ah yea, there are a few more verses than that which ellude to animals having souls but it's never been my focus of study.

[ty_ping]

Temba

linaloki

Lexenos the Bard

Temba

proof?

there is no proof that animals don't have souls.

Quote:

*snip*

according to these Catholics, they do.

You're acting like I made a positive claim, when in fact I really had no idea. Thus the "apparently."

And that thing you quoted? Those weren't verses, that looked a lot like personal opinion that actually had nothing to do with religion.

Didn't read the link, because I don't care enough about the subject to do anything more than take the word of an accepted scholar (ty).

However, rockmanx has provided what I asked for (thank you, by the way), actual verses. I'm quite interested to see if ty is interested enough to reply, and what she has to say.

Temporarily sick of my flob.

What he quoted was messed up and out of context. The verses he had actually seem to support animal souls.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21, NIV

I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

As for animal heaven, it seems to offer a "who knows?" But I do believe Christ mentioned cattle in heaven... but Revelation throws question into what exactly he was referring to...

Also, that quoted chunk Temba gave... It seemed to suggest that animals have souls because they aren't cruel to humans (and, btw, cats have been known to bite off babies' toes), which would suggest humans don't have souls because some are cruel to humans?

when people say, Animals aren't cruel like humans, they usually mean they don't do things like putting living things into microwaves, or tying dogs to the back of trucks and dragging to their death, or cruel bloody tortures humans have done in the past, and in some places still do. yes animals do do some cruel things too, but it pales in comparison.

Plus animals are generally considered to be intallectually inferior to humans and for some reason humans think that if something is dumb or cognitivly incapable of devising or understanding "Evil" it is incapable of performing evil.

Which is why I think it is so funny that people think children are kind and innocent when really they are malicious self serving little SOB's. Much like animals.

They're cruelty isn't a thought out plan of cruelty to be mean. It's just a natual enjoyment of what is happening. They don't have to force themselves to be cruel, they don't have to pre-plan it, it's not done with an evil intent. It's an inability to realize that they are hurting the other being and an enjoyment of whatever they're doing to it.

[ty_ping]

Ok on the whole "Animals and Souls" thing I've just PM'ed Ete, he's the resident expert when it comes to the soul and metaphysical and cats. Hopefully he'll pop on sometime this week and post that info dump.

[Eteponge]

GENESIS 1:30 And to every animal of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth on the earth, in which is a living soul, every green herb for food. And it was so.

NOTE: The word for Living Soul used in the above verse in Hebrew is Nephesh, meaning "Breath", the same word used when God "Breathed" Life into Adam, it's God's "Breath of Life". The Hebrew and Greek word for Spirit (Nephesh / Pneuma), both literally mean "Breath", as in God's Breath.

JOB 12:7-10 You have only to ask the cattle, for them to instruct you, and the birds of the sky, for them to inform you. The creeping things of earth will give you lessons, and the fish of the sea provide you an explanation: there is not one such creature but will know that the hand of God has arranged things like this! In his hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of every human being!

Clearly stating that in God's hand is the soul of *every living thing* and the breath of every human being.

And this is interesting, animals on the earth *and* in Heaven, praising God...

REVELATION 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

[linaloki]

Well, as I said, I do believe Christ said there'd be cattle.

Now, if only there'll be video games... ninja

[ty_ping]

linaloki

Well, as I said, I do believe Christ said there'd be cattle.

Now, if only there'll be video games... ninja

Video games are the Devil.

Which is why Hell is only full of awesome people having a super rad time. Only the prudish think it's a hell because they don't like things being super rad.

Bunch of squares.

RAAAWWWKKKK twisted

[Isaac488]

ty_ping

linaloki

Well, as I said, I do believe Christ said there'd be cattle.

Now, if only there'll be video games... ninja

Video games are the Devil.

Which is why Hell is only full of awesome people having a super rad time. Only the prudish think it's a hell because they don't like things being super rad.

Bunch of squares.

RAAAWWWKKKK twisted

So THAT'S why Lou was brought in to Guitar Hero 3 and was kept....

[Capitalist Revolutionary]

Funny, faith is so contradictory that you get to pick and choose which gospels you accept.

[Yuki Goes Rawr]

Capitalist Revolutionary

Funny, faith is so contradictory that you get to pick and choose which gospels you accept.

Thank goodness Loki and others were here with a bit of common sense so that every bit of it could be explained and accepted for what it is instead of being piced apart and used for hate :3

[Dear Dearest]

i agree, homosexuality is not a sin, i have lots of gay friends

[linaloki]

Capitalist Revolutionary

Funny, faith is so contradictory that you get to pick and choose which gospels you accept.

How's faith contradictory?

Not to mention, I accept all four gospels of the Protestant Bible. neutral

[Isaac488]

linaloki

Capitalist Revolutionary

Funny, faith is so contradictory that you get to pick and choose which gospels you accept.

How's faith contradictory?

Not to mention, I accept all four gospels of the Protestant Bible. neutral

I think he meant 'religion' in that. I've had people confuse faith and religion a lot.

[Lsuboymatt]

linaloki

First off, we need to define a few terms. These are terms that will help guide the path of this thread, as well as understand the differences between things. Terms shall be added as confusions arise.

Christianity – Christianity is, typically, a belief in the teachings of Jesus the Christ. It is a belief that He is the Son of God and the Son of Man, Alpha and Omega, and the Messiah prophesied in the Holy Texts of the prophets. Belief in the resurrection of Christ, endowment of the Holy Spirit, and the Bible are also normally beliefs included in Christianity.

Gnosticism – Gnosticism is a form of Christianity that, to be honest, I don’t have much of a clue about. However, it is to be noted that Gnostic Christianity is distinctly different from Established Christianity, that of the Church founded by the Apostle Paul. I merely want it to be known that we will not be discussing Gnosticism in this thread. For more on Gnosticism, look for the threads mentioned in the last post.

Popular Christianity – We’ll note now that, yes, this one is a tad different from Christianity. Unfortunately, it’s also what nearly everyone claims or thinks is Christianity, and it’s been giving Christians a bad name for a while. Another name for this might be embellished Christianity. Basically, it is a faith in the Church or the Clergy, a faith that whatever they say on matters pertaining to the Bible and the Spirit. People that ascribe to this version of Christianity almost never have actually read the Bible, are unable to list the Ten Commandments, and are laden with other woes and ignorance that is found easily in the Scripture. It’s this type of Christianity that spawns so many problems and misconceptions, especially thanks to the Catholic Church and the Papacy being able to say whatever they wanted about the Bible and be infallible. Misconceptions that sprout from this PC include Hell, homosexuality is a sin, the Deadly Sins, etcetera. Those misconceptions spawned from this form of Christianity are what we’ll be covering.

Sin – Here’s a word some people use a tad liberally. A sin is simply a transgression against God and His Laws. Cursing is not necessarily sinful, but cursing God is. Lashing out in anger is ALSO not sinful. Jesus Christ Himself did it on at least two occasions. Once in the Temple, and once on a road, striking a fig tree with withering plague. Also, just because it is sinful does not mean it is horrendously wrong. Imagining someone in a sexually pleasing to you manner is lust, a sin. However, it is not a “great evil”. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And that’s a Biblical fact.

EDITED 2/26/07

I've noticed that people are having troubles with prayer vs. worship and the term homosexuality. This last is a problem as it seems to be this thread's main attraction. Therefore, we shall define them.

Prayer – Prayer is merely talking to someone of a higher realm. A prayer can be as simple as "Dear God, please help!", or as used as the Pater Noster (Our Father). Prayer, it is to be noted, does not mean worship. They are seperate terms. Merriam-Webster tells us that to pray is merely to entreat, implore, or address God or a god.

Worship – Worship, as I said, is different from prayer. Merriam-Webster says it well with "reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence". Prayer is not an act of expressing reverence. It is an act of talking to someone of a higher power.

Homosexuality – Homosexuality is the natural sexuality that makes a person or animal find an attraction towards those of the same gender as they. Homosexuality is not the state of having sex with members of the same sex. Also, homosexual has been commonly used to refer to the male homosexuals, though it applies to males and females.

These next posts will deal with common MAJOR misconceptions Christians have.

Her is one thing:
It says man and a woman not man and man or woman and woman but MAN AND WOmAN to be together!

[Maiafay]

Lsuboymatt

linaloki

First off, we need to define a few terms. These are terms that will help guide the path of this thread, as well as understand the differences between things. Terms shall be added as confusions arise.

Christianity – Christianity is, typically, a belief in the teachings of Jesus the Christ. It is a belief that He is the Son of God and the Son of Man, Alpha and Omega, and the Messiah prophesied in the Holy Texts of the prophets. Belief in the resurrection of Christ, endowment of the Holy Spirit, and the Bible are also normally beliefs included in Christianity.

Gnosticism – Gnosticism is a form of Christianity that, to be honest, I don’t have much of a clue about. However, it is to be noted that Gnostic Christianity is distinctly different from Established Christianity, that of the Church founded by the Apostle Paul. I merely want it to be known that we will not be discussing Gnosticism in this thread. For more on Gnosticism, look for the threads mentioned in the last post.

Popular Christianity – We’ll note now that, yes, this one is a tad different from Christianity. Unfortunately, it’s also what nearly everyone claims or thinks is Christianity, and it’s been giving Christians a bad name for a while. Another name for this might be embellished Christianity. Basically, it is a faith in the Church or the Clergy, a faith that whatever they say on matters pertaining to the Bible and the Spirit. People that ascribe to this version of Christianity almost never have actually read the Bible, are unable to list the Ten Commandments, and are laden with other woes and ignorance that is found easily in the Scripture. It’s this type of Christianity that spawns so many problems and misconceptions, especially thanks to the Catholic Church and the Papacy being able to say whatever they wanted about the Bible and be infallible. Misconceptions that sprout from this PC include Hell, homosexuality is a sin, the Deadly Sins, etcetera. Those misconceptions spawned from this form of Christianity are what we’ll be covering.

Sin – Here’s a word some people use a tad liberally. A sin is simply a transgression against God and His Laws. Cursing is not necessarily sinful, but cursing God is. Lashing out in anger is ALSO not sinful. Jesus Christ Himself did it on at least two occasions. Once in the Temple, and once on a road, striking a fig tree with withering plague. Also, just because it is sinful does not mean it is horrendously wrong. Imagining someone in a sexually pleasing to you manner is lust, a sin. However, it is not a “great evil”. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And that’s a Biblical fact.

EDITED 2/26/07

I've noticed that people are having troubles with prayer vs. worship and the term homosexuality. This last is a problem as it seems to be this thread's main attraction. Therefore, we shall define them.

Prayer – Prayer is merely talking to someone of a higher realm. A prayer can be as simple as "Dear God, please help!", or as used as the Pater Noster (Our Father). Prayer, it is to be noted, does not mean worship. They are seperate terms. Merriam-Webster tells us that to pray is merely to entreat, implore, or address God or a god.

Worship – Worship, as I said, is different from prayer. Merriam-Webster says it well with "reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence". Prayer is not an act of expressing reverence. It is an act of talking to someone of a higher power.

Homosexuality – Homosexuality is the natural sexuality that makes a person or animal find an attraction towards those of the same gender as they. Homosexuality is not the state of having sex with members of the same sex. Also, homosexual has been commonly used to refer to the male homosexuals, though it applies to males and females.

These next posts will deal with common MAJOR misconceptions Christians have.

Her is one thing:
It says man and a woman not man and man or woman and woman but MAN AND WOmAN to be together!

All because it doesn't say man and man or woman and woman doesn't mean it's evil. How does not mentioning something that isn't common to begin with make it wrong? Explain please. And take this verse:

Matthew 19:11-12

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Seems to be he's saying not every man is for a woman.