Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin: What Christ Said And More

[N3bu]

Leucrotta

ironman_mendez

Leucrotta

Reinharted

Leucrotta

For the first comment: My Uncle Johnny was a gay man. Everyone knew it. He lusted after men. However, once he became a Chirstian, he never did so again. He resisted. He won. So... I think it can happen... Everyone is born with temptations.

Homosexuality isn't a temptation, or a choice. And what Loki said about the lust part. Lust is completely different from Love.

What you Uncle is, is either lying to himself and everyone around him, or bisexual.

I can easily ******** a woman, and after the extreme projectile vomiting and eventually going limp without any thought on men, I'd still end up gay than straight, no matter how many times I ******** a woman, even if I successfully managed to have an orgasm by some miracle.

The real question is, should a homosexual lie to himself, others, and God? Or should he be who he is and feel at ease with himself and his religion and no longer have to lie to others?

Leucrotta

And to the second one, I'm not only loving certain people. I try and love everyone how God intends. I just don't love what sinners do, and wish they would change.

Which only encourages the depression, suicidal thoughts, despair, and hatred among those that have no ability to change what is absolutely natural to them. How can they change what is a part of the very core of their being? They can't. Sexuality is not a choice. It never was, and never has been.

I'd have to disagree as to it being a choice, so that makes this whole argument nil on me. And I can see that I'm not swaying the view on that topic. x__x;

Are you saying Homosexuality IS a choice or isnt?

I'm saying it is. I... though I made that clear. Oh well. >__>; Now I did.

So people choose to be ostracised by society or at least the major religions of the world? Yes that makes a whole lot of sence. That and that they can choose who they are attracted to.

[Leucrotta]

Reinharted

Leucrotta

I'd have to disagree as to it being a choice, so that makes this whole argument nil on me. And I can see that I'm not swaying the view on that topic. x__x;

Denial of reality does not change reality. Homosexuality has never been a choice.

Homosexuality is Not a Choice
- APA on Sexuality
- Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
- LiveScience: Gay Men and Straight Women's Brains

Sexuality and biology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/ap_050510_pheremones.html
http://www.genuinejeff.com/researchdata.htm
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web1/Rana.html
http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html
Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
-
Lesbians and hormones

'Reality' is different to you and I, apparently.

And as to all your links, I'm pretty sure that all those do is back up your point of view. Which, granted, is what you want, and the point of you posting them.

But a better argument would be to show some from my point of view and point out without deniable evidence that they are wrong. I'm honestly not going to read all those.

[PoeticVengeance]

Leucrotta

Okay... so we don't have any that are 100%. Oh wait... yes we do. God.

Do you have a direct line to God? One you can share with us?

No? Then you have to make the best assessment yourself.

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Now this part is... kinda only for believers. Because those who aren't will just think that it makes no sense. No offense here, because even though I'm against the views that aren't Christian, I don't want to start an all-out fight.

I'm a former Christian, so your views aren't foreign to me.

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Moving on...

If you read your Bible, no particular translation (though most agree that KJV is the closest), and you pray as you do so, asking God to show you what the meanings are, you will know. Now in all likelyhood, He isn't going to descend from On High and tell you exact wording, but you'll just... know. It's hard to explain.
This... well, really has no proof. But that's back to the whole 'faith' issue, which is a bit off-topic maybe?

Actually the KJV is quite possibly the absolute worst translation. Most biblical scholars abhor it for study, although many agree its the prettiest translation.

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Okay... and here we have the 'gays aren't alive' or 'they shouldn't exist' thing. Alrighty... well... They are alive. That's just... common sense. O__o; They aren't inhuman, they just don't preform normal sexual behaviour.
In my line of thinking, which to me is God's line of thinking, this is a sin. Then again, so is stealing. So ir rape, murder, incest, etc. But we don't always kill those people, so then gays can exist in the sense that they are allowed to live.

Your line of thinking, as has been established, is not supported by the Bible.

And not normal =/= bad

it merely means that it doesn't occur in the average human.

[Leucrotta]

PoeticVengeance

Leucrotta

Okay... so we don't have any that are 100%. Oh wait... yes we do. God.

Do you have a direct line to God? One you can share with us?

No? Then you have to make the best assessment yourself.

Quote:

Now this part is... kinda only for believers. Because those who aren't will just think that it makes no sense. No offense here, because even though I'm against the views that aren't Christian, I don't want to start an all-out fight.

I'm a former Christian, so your views aren't foreign to me.

Quote:

Moving on...

If you read your Bible, no particular translation (though most agree that KJV is the closest), and you pray as you do so, asking God to show you what the meanings are, you will know. Now in all likelyhood, He isn't going to descend from On High and tell you exact wording, but you'll just... know. It's hard to explain.
This... well, really has no proof. But that's back to the whole 'faith' issue, which is a bit off-topic maybe?

Actually the KJV is quite possibly the absolute worst translation. Most biblical scholars abhor it for study, although many agree its the prettiest translation.

Quote:

Okay... and here we have the 'gays aren't alive' or 'they shouldn't exist' thing. Alrighty... well... They are alive. That's just... common sense. O__o; They aren't inhuman, they just don't preform normal sexual behaviour.
In my line of thinking, which to me is God's line of thinking, this is a sin. Then again, so is stealing. So ir rape, murder, incest, etc. But we don't always kill those people, so then gays can exist in the sense that they are allowed to live.

Your line of thinking, as has been established, is not supported by the Bible.

And not normal =/= bad

it merely means that it doesn't occur in the average human.

Wel already kinda covered all of that. Except that last part seems to come up a lot. Okay, I believe that it is supported by the Bible. And thus far teh arguments against that haven't changed me. And won't.

[PoeticVengeance]

Leucrotta

Reinharted

Leucrotta

You've prayed about it? Honestly?

I've tried hard in the past to be straight. God made me gay, and intends for me to be gay. Why? Perhaps to get a broader view and test me. To see if I can still remain faithfull inspite of all the hatred and dispise disguised as "love".

Leucrotta

In that case, He must be showing us two different things.

One is love, one is spiritual discrimination based upon who is loved. (And no one is harmed by it. Covering this just incase it's brought up about child-molestors or zoophiles. They aren't the same thing as there's nothing consensual there.) Care to guess which is which?

For the first comment: My Uncle Johnny was a gay man. Everyone knew it. He lusted after men. However, once he became a Chirstian, he never did so again. He resisted. He won. So... I think it can happen... Everyone is born with temptations.

Self repression is always possible. A person can resist the urge to eat untill they starve to death.

That doesn't make it good.

[Leucrotta]

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode, that food being cooked causes cancer, and that God doesn't exist.

[N3bu]

Leucrotta

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode, that food being cooked causes cancer, and that God doesn't exist.

Misconceptions and genralisations... No wonder you don't believe in scientists.

[Leucrotta]

ironman_mendez

Leucrotta

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode, that food being cooked causes cancer, and that God doesn't exist.

Misconceptions and genralisations... No wonder you don't believe in scientists.

Misconceptions? Okay, so a study that 'proved' that food being cooked causes cancer is a misconception?

Okay, I relent that not all scientists are atheists. In fact, most who've tried to dis-prove the existence of God come out as Christians. But they still aren't the most accurate in my book.

[Reinharted]

Leucrotta

'Reality' is different to you and I, apparently.

Yes, as apparently your "reality" is nothing but fairies, goblins, and magic. Has no basis with science which explains reality itself.

Leucrotta

And as to all your links, I'm pretty sure that all those do is back up your point of view.

They back up reality, my point of view just happens to be backed up as well.

Leucrotta

Which, granted, is what you want, and the point of you posting them.

And the fact that...well...they're facts.

Leucrotta

But a better argument would be to show some from my point of view and point out without deniable evidence that they are wrong.

Your job is provide such links. It's our job to refute said links. That's how debate works. That's how things work in ED itself. If you want to be intellectually lazy though, go right ahead.

Leucrotta

I'm honestly not going to read all those.

I wouldn't think you'd read the book, as it costs money. However, if you choose to deny yourself knowledge of reality, then it's no wonder you deny the reality of reality. wink

[PoeticVengeance]

Leucrotta

Wel already kinda covered all of that.

Yeah I'm a little behind at the moment.

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Except that last part seems to come up a lot. Okay, I believe that it is supported by the Bible.

Yet you have no reason to believe that.

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And thus far teh arguments against that haven't changed me. And won't.

And if I believe that the sky is orange and made of floating toads?

If I refused to accept that the sky is blue (relatively) and made of layers of air and water vapor, despite all the evidence presented, what would you think of me?

Not to be offensive but that is exactly what I'm thinking of you right now.

[N3bu]

Leucrotta

ironman_mendez

Leucrotta

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode, that food being cooked causes cancer, and that God doesn't exist.

Misconceptions and genralisations... No wonder you don't believe in scientists.

Misconceptions? Okay, so a study that 'proved' that food being cooked causes cancer is a misconception?

Okay, I relent that not all scientists are atheists. In fact, most who've tried to dis-prove the existence of God come out as Christians. But they still aren't the most accurate in my book.

Science is based on the correction of theories. We all can't be right the first time. Life just doesn't work that way.

And a study that says cookign food causes cancer? Sounds like pseudo science to me.

Most who try to dis-prove the existence of god, can't. Mostly because its impossible to both prove and disprove. As for turning Christian I would liek some statistics of that. If its true they must be weak minded.

[PoeticVengeance]

Leucrotta

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode,

Um... no they really don't.

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that food being cooked causes cancer,

Um... no for this too.


Do you actually know any scientists?

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and that God doesn't exist.

Hmmmm quite a few scientists I know are also Christians, maybe you ought to tell them that and see how they react.

[N3bu]

You also didn't respond to my point about homosexuals wanting to be ostracised from society.

[Jaaten Syric]

Leucrotta

Oh yeah, and to the tune of scientific evidence, I'm not the most trusting in scientists. They think the world is going to explode, that food being cooked causes cancer, and that God doesn't exist.

Ah, for some reason hasty generalizations and straw men even smell better at 4:30 in the mornin'. Next time you're hospitalized best tell those ebul sciency types to keep away, after all they think penicillin cures disease for some strange reason.

@ Rein: many thanks for single-handedly rebuilding my long lost homosexuality debate folder. I owe you one.

[Leucrotta]

Reinharted

Leucrotta

'Reality' is different to you and I, apparently.

Yes, as apparently your "reality" is nothing but fairies, goblins, and magic. Has no basis with science which explains reality itself.

Leucrotta

And as to all your links, I'm pretty sure that all those do is back up your point of view.

They back up reality, my point of view just happens to be backed up as well.

Leucrotta

Which, granted, is what you want, and the point of you posting them.

And the fact that...well...they're facts.

Leucrotta

But a better argument would be to show some from my point of view and point out without deniable evidence that they are wrong.

Your job is provide such links. It's our job to refute said links. That's how debate works. That's how things work in ED itself. If you want to be intellectually lazy though, go right ahead.

Leucrotta

I'm honestly not going to read all those.

I wouldn't think you'd read the book, as it costs money. However, if you choose to deny yourself knowledge of reality, then it's no wonder you deny the reality of reality. wink

Hmm... okay. So all these arguments are based in science. Which I have little faith in when it comes to deciding morality. ;3 Sorry, just not working for me.