Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin: What Christ Said And More

[Lord Setar]

Psycho Ninja

error[dot]exe

Psycho Ninja

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Psycho Ninja

linaloki

Canada and the New England area. *has studied some Iriquois tales*

Question: If the flood of Genesis was just a local flood, then why is 3/4 of the worlds surface STILL FLOODED TO THIS VERY DAY? Look at a map, that's all the evidence one really needs of a worldwide flood. Besides, every culture having a flood story actually supports this, because after the flood, when people dispersed, they all took the same story of an actual event and made it into part of their history.

That doesn't necessarity mean it was from a global flood, the oceans were already there. Organisms *do* need water to survive.

I always thought a flood was being covered in water. The earth's surface is 3/4 flooded. We are STILL having a global flood.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between a flood and an ocean. A flood suggests the land wasn't originally covered in water.

That's the problem people run into when discussing Biblical events. For instance, you can't see the Sea of Reeds that Moses crossed because the Suez canal diverted the water and the sea dried up.

Anyways, my point is, how do we know, based on a modern map, what the earth looked like 4000 years ago, or however long ago it was? You have to think about how the earth looked then. At the time, there was probably little water then the world was flooded.

Can you provide proof that there was probably little water? See, single-celled and multicellular marine organisms are theorized to have been present during the Precambrian era, which ended some 500 million years ago. Trilobites and ammonoids, which were present during the Paleozoic era (ammonoids mid-Paleozoic to about the end of the Mesozoic) were also marine life. Also, where did the water come from? You can't make water out of nothing, you need a ratio of two H+ atoms per O-2 atom to make a single molecule of water, plus there needs to be combustion. The amount of hydrogen, oxygen, and combustion resulting to make the water in the oceans - and this is only DISTILLED water, we aren't factoring the high mineral content of the oceans - would have likely incinerated most humans.

This is just me speaking scientifically, but you do need an explanation as to where the water came from, and the only plausible explanation is 2H2 + 2O2 = 2H2O + Energy, as "It came from nowhere" isn't that plausible.

[TsuruTenTen]

Shennanigans

Getting onto the homosexual issue for a moment; it seems to me that you say that Sodom's sin is "Sodomy". So, wouldn't that mean that a*%$ s@x is a sin? Therefore, "moral homosexuality" has to be platonic or at least avoid that particular s@x act?

I contend, rather, that their arrogance in rejecting the discipline of God through Lot's witness was their downfall.

I think you need to look up the sins of Sodom again.

Ezekiel 16:49 (NIV)

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

[TsuruTenTen]

Psycho Ninja

linaloki

ty_ping

Ereaes

Did you know that the story of noah was actually a christian depiction of the Sumerian Story of Gilgamesh? Bassically the same events happen but it was just a natural disaster of a flood of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Every culture has a flood myth but thats because at some point every culture had a massive flood as the world was settling itself. Native Americans in Canada have flood myths. So does Japan and India and China and Australia.
Did one world flood take place? Well if it did God did a shoddy job of smiting people since it looked like they did fine.
But historically they all happened at different times so most of the world at some point has been under water, just not all at the same go.

Canada and the New England area. *has studied some Iriquois tales*

Question: If the flood of Genesis was just a local flood, then why is 3/4 of the worlds surface STILL FLOODED TO THIS VERY DAY?

Gravity. See all those oceans? they're down lower than the mountains.
Ever noticed how when you pour a glass of water, the water goes down instead of sideways?
Same thing.

Quote:

Look at a map, that's all the evidence one really needs of a worldwide flood. Besides, every culture having a flood story actually supports this, because after the flood, when people dispersed, they all took the same story of an actual event and made it into part of their history.

Japan doesn't have one. I think you need to do some research before using the word "every".

[TsuruTenTen]

Psycho Ninja

Scare Tactic Propaganda

Psycho Ninja

linaloki

ty_ping

Every culture has a flood myth but thats because at some point every culture had a massive flood as the world was settling itself. Native Americans in Canada have flood myths. So does Japan and India and China and Australia.
Did one world flood take place? Well if it did God did a shoddy job of smiting people since it looked like they did fine.
But historically they all happened at different times so most of the world at some point has been under water, just not all at the same go.

Canada and the New England area. *has studied some Iriquois tales*

Question: If the flood of Genesis was just a local flood, then why is 3/4 of the worlds surface STILL FLOODED TO THIS VERY DAY? Look at a map, that's all the evidence one really needs of a worldwide flood. Besides, every culture having a flood story actually supports this, because after the flood, when people dispersed, they all took the same story of an actual event and made it into part of their history.

That doesn't necessarity mean it was from a global flood, the oceans were already there. Organisms *do* need water to survive.

I always thought a flood was being covered in water. The earth's surface is 3/4 flooded. We are STILL having a global flood.

Uh, no.

American Heritage Dictionary

flood (flŭd) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. An overflowing of water onto land that is normally dry.
2. A flood tide.
3. An abundant flow or outpouring: received a flood of applications. See Synonyms at flow.
4. A floodlight, specifically a unit that produces a beam of intense light.
5. Flood In the Bible, the covering of the earth with water that occurred during the time of Noah.

Emphasis mine.

[linaloki]

Denzyz

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

Oh, it may very well have been a world wide flood. However, I don't think that Noah was the only survivor. Cultures all over the world, spread about thanks to the Tower of Babel, have flood tales. And, of course, there's always the possibility that world meant THEIR world... But those are merely two theories.

About the 'Tower of Babel' thing. I heard someone say awhile back that the tower was god's way of seperating races, by making them unable to understand one another, and he was using that to try and support his thinking that god doesn't want interracial couples or something. Does the Babel incident have anything to do with interracial coupling at all, or does the bible even mention that sort of thing and/or condemn it?

*is asking Loki cause he/you appears to be really well read with the biblical thing)

The support for anti-interracial couples comes from the OT when God told the Israelites to not marry into the other countries around them, for they were godless and such. Needless to say, it's a bad defense for their bigotry, considering it was to the Jewish peoples ONLY.

And the OT isn't in use anymore? Something about once Jesus came, he fulfilled all those laws or something, thus making them unecessary to follow any longer, I thought.
And...that means we shouldn't marry Jewish people?

Well, it means that Jewish people weren't supposed to marry non-Jews. I would have to do more research to see if this is still held as true amongst Jews... But it certainly isn't true for Christians.

Denzyz

quote]Tower of Babel was merely God not wanting humans to be able to work together 100%, because they might try to do stupid things like build stairways to heaven.

So to thwart human intelligence, perserverance and hardwork towards achieving their goals...he made it so they couldn't understand one another?

More to thwart human attempts to get to heaven on works.

[JayJaySmoke]

OMG! I love you. You are so right about Leviticus and Sodom and... everything else. I'm a Christian and I don't understand why so many other Christians think being gay is a sin. It's nice to see someone who is so knowledgeable about the bible and willing to share.

Nice sig!

[Denzyz]

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

Oh, it may very well have been a world wide flood. However, I don't think that Noah was the only survivor. Cultures all over the world, spread about thanks to the Tower of Babel, have flood tales. And, of course, there's always the possibility that world meant THEIR world... But those are merely two theories.

About the 'Tower of Babel' thing. I heard someone say awhile back that the tower was god's way of seperating races, by making them unable to understand one another, and he was using that to try and support his thinking that god doesn't want interracial couples or something. Does the Babel incident have anything to do with interracial coupling at all, or does the bible even mention that sort of thing and/or condemn it?

*is asking Loki cause he/you appears to be really well read with the biblical thing)

The support for anti-interracial couples comes from the OT when God told the Israelites to not marry into the other countries around them, for they were godless and such. Needless to say, it's a bad defense for their bigotry, considering it was to the Jewish peoples ONLY.

And the OT isn't in use anymore? Something about once Jesus came, he fulfilled all those laws or something, thus making them unecessary to follow any longer, I thought.
And...that means we shouldn't marry Jewish people?

Well, it means that Jewish people weren't supposed to marry non-Jews. I would have to do more research to see if this is still held as true amongst Jews... But it certainly isn't true for Christians.

Huh.I didn't know that. Are jews really a 'race' though?I thought judeaism(sp) was a religion.

Denzyz

quote]Tower of Babel was merely God not wanting humans to be able to work together 100%, because they might try to do stupid things like build stairways to heaven.

Quote:

So to thwart human intelligence, perserverance and hardwork towards achieving their goals...he made it so they couldn't understand one another?

More to thwart human attempts to get to heaven on works.

Bah. I think that was a cool thing to try, all that work and whatnot. It shouldn't have been discouraged.

[linaloki]

Denzyz

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

Denzyz

About the 'Tower of Babel' thing. I heard someone say awhile back that the tower was god's way of seperating races, by making them unable to understand one another, and he was using that to try and support his thinking that god doesn't want interracial couples or something. Does the Babel incident have anything to do with interracial coupling at all, or does the bible even mention that sort of thing and/or condemn it?

*is asking Loki cause he/you appears to be really well read with the biblical thing)

The support for anti-interracial couples comes from the OT when God told the Israelites to not marry into the other countries around them, for they were godless and such. Needless to say, it's a bad defense for their bigotry, considering it was to the Jewish peoples ONLY.

And the OT isn't in use anymore? Something about once Jesus came, he fulfilled all those laws or something, thus making them unecessary to follow any longer, I thought.
And...that means we shouldn't marry Jewish people?

Well, it means that Jewish people weren't supposed to marry non-Jews. I would have to do more research to see if this is still held as true amongst Jews... But it certainly isn't true for Christians.

Huh.I didn't know that. Are jews really a 'race' though?I thought judeaism(sp) was a religion.

It's both. There is a Jewish race and a Jewish religion. I think it's 3 grandparents Jewish makes you Jewish? Something like that. Anyways, there's a Jewish peoples, which is why we have Jews for Christ and such.

Denzyz

Quote:

Denzyz

Quote:

Tower of Babel was merely God not wanting humans to be able to work together 100%, because they might try to do stupid things like build stairways to heaven.

So to thwart human intelligence, perserverance and hardwork towards achieving their goals...he made it so they couldn't understand one another?

More to thwart human attempts to get to heaven on works.

Bah. I think that was a cool thing to try, all that work and whatnot. It shouldn't have been discouraged.

Well, man can't get to heaven through works alone. 3nodding

[ty_ping]

John Calvin

ty_ping

what about mitzvas and that a good deed cannot be done without the desire to do it for it is good? If you do things out of a fear of punishment or out of a desire for reward have you really done them for God or for yourslef? Are they then not sin? Flawed actions because your faith is wicked although your actions are good?

I dunno it's 3 am and I don't agree with either of you but I can't say why.

I am not sure what "mitzvahs" have to do with eternal life or eternal punishment. Nor am I sure as to why you have brought up a question on doing good in fear that if you do not do so, that you'll be punished. But, from what I see, it appears to me that you're commiting a red herring.

Beyond it supposed relation to the russians I'm not sue wat a red herring is.

I remember reading, which is never sound but this is just philosophy on philosophy. That within the Jewish faith that if you do something simply for fear of punishment, or for desire for the reward, then it in a sense does not count towards a reward, or against the punishment. Mitzvash I believe are good deeds. Which are only done when you're heart believes in the goodness of the deed. Which corrilates towards the goodness of God. However if you perform these actions with bitterment, or greed, they are not only not Mitzvahs but bad actions.

Connecting this to when Jesus said to think a bad actions is to do them, and Paul says Action without faith is useless and faith without action is just as much so (not useless but justified?) would then that not be an accuret theory that to do good without the desire to do good nullifies the acctual deed on a spiritual playing ground.

But then I also believe in reincarnation so there is punishment and reward, it's just not neccisarily eternal.

[Denzyz]

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

Denzyz

linaloki

The support for anti-interracial couples comes from the OT when God told the Israelites to not marry into the other countries around them, for they were godless and such. Needless to say, it's a bad defense for their bigotry, considering it was to the Jewish peoples ONLY.

And the OT isn't in use anymore? Something about once Jesus came, he fulfilled all those laws or something, thus making them unecessary to follow any longer, I thought.
And...that means we shouldn't marry Jewish people?

Well, it means that Jewish people weren't supposed to marry non-Jews. I would have to do more research to see if this is still held as true amongst Jews... But it certainly isn't true for Christians.

Huh.I didn't know that. Are jews really a 'race' though?I thought judeaism(sp) was a religion.

It's both. There is a Jewish race and a Jewish religion. I think it's 3 grandparents Jewish makes you Jewish? Something like that. Anyways, there's a Jewish peoples, which is why we have Jews for Christ and such.

Cool. How do you know all this stuff? Like, you a religion student or some such? Or just a curious fellow with bibles?

Denzyz

Quote:

Denzyz

Quote:

Tower of Babel was merely God not wanting humans to be able to work together 100%, because they might try to do stupid things like build stairways to heaven.

So to thwart human intelligence, perserverance and hardwork towards achieving their goals...he made it so they couldn't understand one another?

More to thwart human attempts to get to heaven on works.

Bah. I think that was a cool thing to try, all that work and whatnot. It shouldn't have been discouraged.

Quote:

Well, man can't get to heaven through works alone. 3nodding

Belief is a big part of it too, yes?

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

ty_ping

Beyond it supposed relation to the russians I'm not sue wat a red herring is.

And I don't know how it has anything to do with what I've said before.

ty_ping

I remember reading, which is never sound but this is just philosophy on philosophy. That within the Jewish faith that if you do something simply for fear of punishment, or for desire for the reward, then it in a sense does not count towards a reward, or against the punishment. Mitzvash I believe are good deeds. Which are only done when you're heart believes in the goodness of the deed. Which corrilates towards the goodness of God. However if you perform these actions with bitterment, or greed, they are not only not Mitzvahs but bad actions.

That's fine and dandy, but it's not something I raised in the argument I was in with PoeticVengeance. So, I don't find it necessary to answer. Furthermore, I am not a Jew, so I could really care less as to whether or not doing a good mitzvah with a bad attitude means bad actions.

ty_ping

Connecting this to when Jesus said to think a bad actions is to do them,

I still don't see how this follows anything I said previously.

ty_ping

and Paul says Action without faith is useless and faith without action is just as much so (not useless but justified?)

That was James, not Paul.

ty_ping

would then that not be an accuret theory that to do good without the desire to do good nullifies the acctual deed on a spiritual playing ground.

Where did I make mention of this?

[Marshal67]

Denzyz

Cool. How do you know all this stuff? Like, you a religion student or some such? Or just a curious fellow with bibles?

How shall I put this...

John knows what every Christian should no but sadly hardly any know. He is a true practioner of the faith.

Quote:

Belief is a big part of it too, yes?

It is my personal belief that there will be a lot of people in hell who believed in God. Unfortunately faith is not enough, nor are works. "What good is a tree without fruit?" They go hand in hand. Most people consider this a bad thing or something, at least inconvenient. But a true Christian follows the Law of Agape and therefor should have an inate desire to do good for God.

[compudemon]

I am pretty sure Christianity is not a religion but a group of similar religions, they are all different so you should not generalize across the different faiths.

[linaloki]

Marshal67

Denzyz

Cool. How do you know all this stuff? Like, you a religion student or some such? Or just a curious fellow with bibles?

How shall I put this...

John knows what every Christian should no but sadly hardly any know. He is a true practioner of the faith.

Psst. What about Loki?

Marshal67

Quote:

Belief is a big part of it too, yes?

It is my personal belief that there will be a lot of people in hell who believed in God. Unfortunately faith is not enough, nor are works. "What good is a tree without fruit?" They go hand in hand. Most people consider this a bad thing or something, at least inconvenient. But a true Christian follows the Law of Agape and therefor should have an inate desire to do good for God.

Well, the book of Revelations does mention stars in the crowns... It seems indicitive that faith gets you to heaven, and works gets you your heavenly rewards.