Gender Roles are a GOOD THING

[They Came to Kill GSK]

S'up, ho's.

This s**t again, huh? More people trying to guilt me using large scale statistics into making babies and cooking in exchange for some p***s? Must be ******** Monday, man.

[They Came to Kill GSK]

Macodrone

They're biologically programmed to follow and be lead

Is that why I'm so damned determined to keep my supervisory position where I work?

By the way, hi, GSK, hater of self righteous dicks like you who try to dictate what my life should be like for the good of 'society', which hates my guts anyway.

[Mei tsuki7]

Tape Culture

Mei tsuki7

Tape Culture

Mei tsuki7

Tape Culture

Of course nobody should be shamed for wanting what they want. Unless you're a man who wants a woman with a small waist a big set of hooters. Especially if you want to look at them in the media. Then it's "sexual objectification" and is, like, really problematic.

Objectification is when someone is looked at as an OBJECT and not a PERSON. Objectification is WRONG and is a problem.

Also there is a difference between being free to want and being free to get. Such as, a ***** is free to be sexually aroused by children but they are not free to act on those urges.

The kind of thought policing you're doing right now is way more of a "problem" than someone viewing a woman as a sex object, frankly.

I'm not doing any thought policing. You're free to think what you want but when it begins to effect myself and/or others then there is a problem. Objectification does not just stay in the mind. People who objectify women TREAT women like objects. THAT is the issue.

Listen, if I tell you to show me your tits or get the ******** out of here, it's because I'm convinced you don't have anything otherwise interesting to show or tell me, not because you're a woman. You should be grateful that you have that out, because a man does not.

You aren't entitled to my respect. If you want to be more than a sex object, you're going to have to prove to me -- and to everyone else -- that you're worth being treated that way. You don't get dignity for free. Nobody does.

And THAT is why the world is mostly a shithole.

[They Came to Kill GSK]

Mei tsuki7

And THAT is why the world is mostly a shithole.

No, no, he's right in one respect. Dignity and respect is something earned.

The thing is, trash like him is not worth having the respect of.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Macodrone

Riviera de la Mancha

wasabichan

Macodrone

I've long since held the opinion that feminism seeks to destroy our differences instead of celebrating our diversity.

That's a bit ironic since conforming to gender roles does just that - it destroys our differences and forces us to stay within the rather narrow spectrum of what's acceptable for either gender.

I don't think it destroys differences to say that one gender or sex has certain affinities or characteristics. I think it does when the social system around that allows for no deviation, but that's not necessarily part and parcel to saying there are gender roles.

To illustrate, to say that a steak knife is better at cutting steak than a butter knife doesn't by itself mean you can't use the butter knife to cut a steak. It just means one is better at it than another.

The real danger with gender roles however to me is exhibited in the OP's ascription of certain moral and ethical affinities to the sexes. This is not only untrue, but it presents very dangerous threats to much more crucial concepts like self-determination.

I haven't ascribed moral value or ethical affinities to the sexes.
I have said time and again that I *think* (based on my own observation) men are more dedicated to certain walks of life and able to sacrifice certain things like emotional connections, family, and social lives to achieve success. I think it's EASIER for a man to do that.

The closest thing to a moral value or ethical affinity I think I've said in this whole thread or in fact any other thread that draws a line between the sexes is that it's a man's duty to protect, defend and destroy anything which he values.
I've constantly brought up the "bump in the night" scenario. I *do* believe it's a man's ethical duty to protect his family and I think that's rooted deep in our instincts, men can't give birth, women can. We exist to give women our seed to propagate the species. Basically it's worse for a woman to die than a man.
That is the only thing I think I've said that has anything to do with a moral value or ethical behavior.
Which is good considering I'm an existential nihilist.

To say that men are "more dedicated to certain walks of life" and "able to sacrifice certain things...to achieve success." is a moral value or ethical affinity. Not to mention you affirmed my point that you have made assertions that the sexes have moral values or ethical affinities.

Nihilists are gross.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Mei tsuki7

Riviera de la Mancha

Mei tsuki7

Tape Culture

Mei tsuki7

I said her view fails due to this. She treats them as a universal constant. If her views were true then all gender roles would be the same, or at least far more similiar, throughout the world and history. Plus she ignores the fact that mixed gender roles have existed in many, many cultures. Strict gender roles are a very euro centric thing.

No they aren't. The vast majority of the human population has historically conformed to the same gender roles of father-as-provider and mother-as-nurturer since time immemorial. This is absolutely not a "euro centric" thing. This is a worldwide thing.

And you're completely wrong. In a great deal of cultures women were the main providers seeing as they were the farmers and creators of needed items like clothing and pottery. Most cultures also had men participating in the raising of children a great deal more than the gender roles of today and the recent past. The view that women should stay home with children and men should work is a very recent view and is very Eurocentric.

I think your post touches on another important point, and that is that what constitutes a "provider" and what constitutes "nurturing" has changed with time and with cultures. So even if it is true that most of the world adheres to the paradigm, different cultures vary as to just what fits into that paradigm. When this happens, it makes the paradigm pretty vapid when its applied outside of and between cultures.

Trying to set a global standard for gender roles is just too difficult. The conversation about gender roles needs to limited to a distinct culture for it to have any meaning at all. Once the culture is set, then it becomes more possible to discuss whether or not the roles are proper or have any value.

I actually completely agree. And of course that discussion on the roles will only be able to apply within that culture. Same with other cultural things such as economics and politics.

Economics have more applicability across cultures, but certain dimensions of politics certainly do. I can, for example, guarantee you that a moderate from San Francisco, CA is going to be still very left of a moderate from Austin, Texas.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Tape Culture

Riviera de la Mancha

Nihilists are gross.

They might be "gross" but they are more or less objectively correct. The meaning of life is subjective, all morals are made-up and there is no God. Happy hunting.

Try less correct. A great deal less. As in like, not at all.

[Macodrone]

Riviera de la Mancha

Macodrone

Riviera de la Mancha

wasabichan

Macodrone

I've long since held the opinion that feminism seeks to destroy our differences instead of celebrating our diversity.

That's a bit ironic since conforming to gender roles does just that - it destroys our differences and forces us to stay within the rather narrow spectrum of what's acceptable for either gender.

I don't think it destroys differences to say that one gender or sex has certain affinities or characteristics. I think it does when the social system around that allows for no deviation, but that's not necessarily part and parcel to saying there are gender roles.

To illustrate, to say that a steak knife is better at cutting steak than a butter knife doesn't by itself mean you can't use the butter knife to cut a steak. It just means one is better at it than another.

The real danger with gender roles however to me is exhibited in the OP's ascription of certain moral and ethical affinities to the sexes. This is not only untrue, but it presents very dangerous threats to much more crucial concepts like self-determination.

I haven't ascribed moral value or ethical affinities to the sexes.
I have said time and again that I *think* (based on my own observation) men are more dedicated to certain walks of life and able to sacrifice certain things like emotional connections, family, and social lives to achieve success. I think it's EASIER for a man to do that.

The closest thing to a moral value or ethical affinity I think I've said in this whole thread or in fact any other thread that draws a line between the sexes is that it's a man's duty to protect, defend and destroy anything which he values.
I've constantly brought up the "bump in the night" scenario. I *do* believe it's a man's ethical duty to protect his family and I think that's rooted deep in our instincts, men can't give birth, women can. We exist to give women our seed to propagate the species. Basically it's worse for a woman to die than a man.
That is the only thing I think I've said that has anything to do with a moral value or ethical behavior.
Which is good considering I'm an existential nihilist.

To say that men are "more dedicated to certain walks of life" and "able to sacrifice certain things...to achieve success." is a moral value or ethical affinity. Not to mention you affirmed my point that you have made assertions that the sexes have moral values or ethical affinities.

Nihilists are gross.

I'm sorry you feel that way about nihilists.

A moral is a value that ONE OUGHT TO ADHERE to. Ethics are just morals in practice, where morals are values in principal.

Men being more able to sacrifice or more willing to sacrifice is not a moral.
But if you want to redefine words just to bolster your argument... please, do continue.

Quote:

mor·al
ˈmôrəl/
adjective
adjective: moral

1.
concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
"the moral dimensions of medical intervention"
synonyms: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded, principled, honorable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, clean-living, law-abiding
"a moral man"
antonyms: dishonorable
concerned with or derived from the code of interpersonal behavior that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society.
"an individual's ambitions may get out of step with the general moral code"
synonyms: ethical, social, having to do with right and wrong
"moral issues"
examining the nature of ethics and the foundations of good and bad character and conduct.
"moral philosophers"
2.
holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct.
"he prides himself on being a highly moral and ethical person"

noun
noun: moral; plural noun: morals

1.
a lesson, especially one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms: lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, teaching
"the moral of the story"
2.
a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
"the corruption of public morals"
synonyms: moral code, code of ethics, (moral) values, principles, standards, (sense of) morality, scruples
"he has no morals"

Not even loosely related to the definition of a moral or ethic.


You realize my entire argument is predicated on the idea that all of the problems with contemporary feminism stem from arbitrary value. Right? Do those words make sense to you? Please, if you have to try and interpret my meaning, let me know and I will rephrase it for you.

I feel as though many things I have said have been deliberately or accidentally obscured by over interpretation, or by ignoring the bulk and focusing on perhaps a poorly worded sentence. As I have said english is my 3rd language and I'm trying to express myself as eloquently as possible.

[They Came to Kill GSK]

Tape Culture

This is why you should lay off the meth. You don't even know who I am and you're already calling me trash.

You're someone who's pissing me off within four seconds of reading what you write, that's who you are.

Quote:

Your amygdalae are flashing on hard at all times and for no reason.

my what?

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Macodrone

Riviera de la Mancha

Macodrone

Riviera de la Mancha

wasabichan

That's a bit ironic since conforming to gender roles does just that - it destroys our differences and forces us to stay within the rather narrow spectrum of what's acceptable for either gender.

I don't think it destroys differences to say that one gender or sex has certain affinities or characteristics. I think it does when the social system around that allows for no deviation, but that's not necessarily part and parcel to saying there are gender roles.

To illustrate, to say that a steak knife is better at cutting steak than a butter knife doesn't by itself mean you can't use the butter knife to cut a steak. It just means one is better at it than another.

The real danger with gender roles however to me is exhibited in the OP's ascription of certain moral and ethical affinities to the sexes. This is not only untrue, but it presents very dangerous threats to much more crucial concepts like self-determination.

I haven't ascribed moral value or ethical affinities to the sexes.
I have said time and again that I *think* (based on my own observation) men are more dedicated to certain walks of life and able to sacrifice certain things like emotional connections, family, and social lives to achieve success. I think it's EASIER for a man to do that.

The closest thing to a moral value or ethical affinity I think I've said in this whole thread or in fact any other thread that draws a line between the sexes is that it's a man's duty to protect, defend and destroy anything which he values.
I've constantly brought up the "bump in the night" scenario. I *do* believe it's a man's ethical duty to protect his family and I think that's rooted deep in our instincts, men can't give birth, women can. We exist to give women our seed to propagate the species. Basically it's worse for a woman to die than a man.
That is the only thing I think I've said that has anything to do with a moral value or ethical behavior.
Which is good considering I'm an existential nihilist.

To say that men are "more dedicated to certain walks of life" and "able to sacrifice certain things...to achieve success." is a moral value or ethical affinity. Not to mention you affirmed my point that you have made assertions that the sexes have moral values or ethical affinities.

Nihilists are gross.

I'm sorry you feel that way about nihilists.

A moral is a value that ONE OUGHT TO ADHERE to. Ethics are just morals in practice, where morals are values in principal.

Men being more able to sacrifice or more willing to sacrifice is not a moral.
But if you want to redefine words just to bolster your argument... please, do continue.

Quote:

mor·al
ˈmôrəl/
adjective
adjective: moral

1.
concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
"the moral dimensions of medical intervention"
synonyms: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded, principled, honorable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, clean-living, law-abiding
"a moral man"
antonyms: dishonorable
concerned with or derived from the code of interpersonal behavior that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society.
"an individual's ambitions may get out of step with the general moral code"
synonyms: ethical, social, having to do with right and wrong
"moral issues"
examining the nature of ethics and the foundations of good and bad character and conduct.
"moral philosophers"
2.
holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct.
"he prides himself on being a highly moral and ethical person"

noun
noun: moral; plural noun: morals

1.
a lesson, especially one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms: lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, teaching
"the moral of the story"
2.
a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
"the corruption of public morals"
synonyms: moral code, code of ethics, (moral) values, principles, standards, (sense of) morality, scruples
"he has no morals"

Not even loosely related to the definition of a moral or ethic.


You realize my entire argument is predicated on the idea that all of the problems with contemporary feminism stem from arbitrary value. Right? Do those words make sense to you? Please, if you have to try and interpret my meaning, let me know and I will rephrase it for you.

There is no need to interpret your meaning, since you have already said that you do think the genders have particular ethical affinities or moral values.

"That is the only thing I think I've said that has anything to do with a moral value or ethical behavior." -------- You

Don't care how I get there. Just care that I get there.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Tape Culture

Riviera de la Mancha

Tape Culture

Riviera de la Mancha

Nihilists are gross.

They might be "gross" but they are more or less objectively correct. The meaning of life is subjective, all morals are made-up and there is no God. Happy hunting.

Try less correct. A great deal less. As in like, not at all.

I take it you're religious, believe that life has inherent meaning, and morals have an objective source that is not "made-up"?

I am religious, but I think they are gross for reasons which have nothing to do with religion or faith.

Good try though! 3nodding heart