Ferguson v. Bundy Ranch

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

I'm not sure exactly how to word my question, but I'm interested in your guys' opinions on each occasion. Both are examples of citizens essentially protesting, and standing against a highly militarized, and heavily armed police Force.

I don't think I need to explain Ferguson at all, considering the popularity of the events, but if you don't know about Bundy Ranch: Out in Nevada, a man had cattle grazing in land he deemed was his. However, The Bureau of Land Management Said no. Tensions grew, and it turned into this:





This images look shockingly similar to same ones we've seen in Ferguson:





So... Thoughts? I suppose one major difference is that Bundy Ranch is based out of Greed, while Ferguson is based out of in-justice. However, ferguson's popularity is raised from some-what already present racial tensions, and length.

[Project 429]

Based out of greed and based out of injustice?

Any side could say that both parties in both situations were "motivated" by both. I can't even give you a response because there's no foundation for me to give you a response on.

[l_Shamrock_l]

"Based off of greed" is a massive stretch. The people who partook in the Bundy Ranch protests believed Bundy was being wrongly persecuted and looked on it as ridiculous government oppression over... Cattle (Seriously, Cattle? Did they just give up on busting those Meth Labs and Human/Arms traffickers out there and just choose to pick on someone for something so tedious?). They stood up for one another for dozens of reasons, many of which were a distrust of the government and what they saw as government bullying.

The Ferguson riots were violent from the start as a reaction to a cop shooting someone after that someone had actually attacked the cop. Initially thought of as "A white cop shooting a black teenager", people used that as if it was somehow a reasonable excuse to escalate the issue. After the initial riots cleared, peaceful protests sprung up, which again began to turn violent as rubber bullets were needlessly deployed to put peaceful protesters down and the media was turned away. Groups such The New Black Panthers (An admitted Black Supremacy group) egged protesters on, looting, violence, vandalism, etc. ensues and for some reason the police are being looked on as the bad guys despite it being the people themselves whom are actually the problem. Regardless of who was in the wrong at the beginning of the ordeal, the people themselves have been at fault ever since. The media, as well as people, were saying the police were being needlessly violent using tear gas and several other tools for crowd-control but neglect that the people were throwing Molotov cocktails and shooting at police.

I hardly see how the two are even remotely comparable.

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

Project 429

Based out of greed and based out of injustice?

Any side could say that both parties in both situations were "motivated" by both. I can't even give you a response because there's no foundation for me to give you a response on.

That's fine, I just thought it was an interesting comparison worth sharing.

[God Emperor Baldur]

l_Shamrock_l

"Based off of greed" is a massive stretch.

It's not. The Bundy Ranch Standoff happened because some rancher was butthurt that he couldn't mooch off the government

[Suicidesoldier#1]

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

The issue seems to be in exaggerated fears rather than true problems. In both cases Bundy and the militia men as well as the rioters are clearly in the wrong. Even if the U.S. did something wrong, the response by the rioters are not justified, and in any case is incredibly disproportional to what the U.S. government might have done; 50 eyes for an eye isn't right no matter how you look at it.

[l_Shamrock_l]

God Emperor Baldur

l_Shamrock_l

"Based off of greed" is a massive stretch.

It's not. The Bundy Ranch Standoff happened because some rancher was butthurt that he couldn't mooch off the government

What part was mooching off the government?

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

l_Shamrock_l

"Based off of greed" is a massive stretch. The people who partook in the Bundy Ranch protests believed Bundy was being wrongly persecuted and looked on it as ridiculous government oppression over... Cattle (Seriously, Cattle? Did they just give up on busting those Meth Labs and Human/Arms traffickers out there and just choose to pick on someone for something so tedious?). They stood up for one another for dozens of reasons, many of which were a distrust of the government and what they saw as government bullying.

The Ferguson riots were violent from the start as a reaction to a cop shooting someone after that someone had actually attacked the cop. Initially thought of as "A white cop shooting a black teenager", people used that as if it was somehow a reasonable excuse to escalate the issue. After the initial riots cleared, peaceful protests sprung up, which again began to turn violent as rubber bullets were needlessly deployed to put peaceful protesters down and the media was turned away. Groups such The New Black Panthers (An admitted Black Supremacy group) egged protesters on, looting, violence, vandalism, etc. ensues and for some reason the police are being looked on as the bad guys despite it being the people themselves whom are actually the problem. Regardless of who was in the wrong at the beginning of the ordeal, the people themselves have been at fault ever since. The media, as well as people, were saying the police were being needlessly violent using tear gas and several other tools for crowd-control but neglect that the people were throwing Molotov cocktails and shooting at police.

I hardly see how the two are even remotely comparable.

Fair enough, this is exactly the response I was hoping for...

As far as the Greed goes, I suppose I should have been more clear when I meant that the govt. body was greedy. So far as I know, the Govt. wanted Ted Bundy to pay taxes, but he refused with the thought that "He was there first." Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

In terms of injustice, I am a firm believer that if the officer who Shot Michael Brown was doing his job correctly then the young man would still be alive, regardless of who the aggressor was. Also, as for blaming the people for the escalation... That's really hard to say for sure. I was talking to one of my good friends about the situation, and he served a few tours over-sea. He said that one of the constant drills, classes, and practices that he and his peers had to partake in was riot and crowd control. According to him: If a response force is sent to an area of concern, then their presence alone heightens the situation ten-fold.

On the same hand however, How else are you supposed to deal with the looting other than a response force. It's really hard to pick sides on this one.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

l_Shamrock_l

God Emperor Baldur

l_Shamrock_l

"Based off of greed" is a massive stretch.

It's not. The Bundy Ranch Standoff happened because some rancher was butthurt that he couldn't mooch off the government

What part was mooching off the government?

He wouldn't pay the taxes or grazing fees equaling over a million dollars, over a 20 year time period, and eventually he was of course going to be forcefully evicted. The primary issue is that he's on public land, so there are grazing fees if you let your cows roam over them.

"The Bundy standoff is a 20-year legal dispute between the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and cattle rancher Cliven Bundy in southeastern Nevada over unpaid grazing fees that developed into an armed confrontation between protesters and law enforcement.

The ongoing dispute began in 1993, when in protest against changes to grazing rules, Bundy declined to renew his permit for cattle grazing on BLM-administered lands near Bunkerville, Nevada. In 1998, Bundy was prohibited from grazing his cattle on the Bunkerville Allotment by the United States District Court for the District of Nevada in United States v. Bundy. In July 2013, the BLM complaint was supplemented when federal judge Lloyd D. George ordered that Bundy refrain from trespassing on federally administered land in the Gold Butte, Nevada, area in Clark County."

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

Yes, which is why it's sad and tragic.

But I highly doubt it's some major police state thingamajig trying to eat babies for no reason, particularly when these types of incidents are rare in general.

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

Yes, which is why it's sad and tragic.

But I highly doubt it's some major police state thingamajig trying to eat babies for no reason, particularly when these types of incidents are rare in general.

Yea, I agree that it probably won't end in a Police State/Illuminati/NWO as everyone probably would like to be. I'm not even sure we'll even see a change In police protocol.

These ARE rare events indeed, but for how long? Racial tensions seem to be really high on this one, and a lot of people over social-media support Michael Brown as a martyr. Of course looking back on history, of minority Riots, and riots in general on U.S. soil, nothing has really come of it, and U.S. democracy still stands. Difference being this time is the social media aspect of it.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

Yes, which is why it's sad and tragic.

But I highly doubt it's some major police state thingamajig trying to eat babies for no reason, particularly when these types of incidents are rare in general.

Yea, I agree that it probably won't end in a Police State/Illuminati/NWO as everyone probably would like to be. I'm not even sure we'll even see a change In police protocol.

These ARE rare events indeed, but for how long? Racial tensions seem to be really high on this one, and a lot of people over social-media support Michael Brown as a martyr. Of course looking back on history, of minority Riots, and riots in general on U.S. soil, nothing has really come of it, and U.S. democracy still stands. Difference being this time is the social media aspect of it.

Most the people claiming that there is a new racist police state are the same people who want you to give all your money to the government for them to give you back healthcare, to give up all your guns and so on saying that we the citizens are the primary cause of crime, and so on and so forth. They'll probably realize the contradiction and go either or, and since all their policies are based on increased government control, likely go over to the other side.

I don't think all black people are really rioting or even support it. I doubt most of the Ferguson rioters are from Ferguson or even black. I think the racial tensions are also being exaggerated since many black people respect the police and the military and the government and don't believe in the deranged conspiracy stuff, especially over the shooting of one man. Sure, a lot of times the same people telling you guns are evil and only police and military should have them ALSO tell you we are in a corrupt state that is invading country's to steal their resources (I.E. oil) which are the same organizations they claim should only have them, but they didn't really do much then either. They'll get over it. Sure they live in two different universes, but they'll gravitate to whichever one benefits them more usually, and usually that's being pro-government.

[Banarama Clamcrotch]

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

Yes, which is why it's sad and tragic.

But I highly doubt it's some major police state thingamajig trying to eat babies for no reason, particularly when these types of incidents are rare in general.

Yea, I agree that it probably won't end in a Police State/Illuminati/NWO as everyone probably would like to be. I'm not even sure we'll even see a change In police protocol.

These ARE rare events indeed, but for how long? Racial tensions seem to be really high on this one, and a lot of people over social-media support Michael Brown as a martyr. Of course looking back on history, of minority Riots, and riots in general on U.S. soil, nothing has really come of it, and U.S. democracy still stands. Difference being this time is the social media aspect of it.

Most the people claiming that there is a new racist police state are the same people who want you to give all your money to the government for them to give you back healthcare, to give up all your guns and so on saying that we the citizens are the primary cause of crime, and so on and so forth. They'll probably realize the contradiction and go either or, and since all their policies are based on increased government control, likely go over to the other side.

I don't think all black people are really rioting or even support it. I doubt most of the Ferguson rioters are from Ferguson or even black. I think the racial tensions are also being exaggerated since many black people respect the police and the military and the government and don't believe in the deranged conspiracy stuff, especially over the shooting of one man. Sure, a lot of times the same people telling you guns are evil and only police and military should have them ALSO tell you we are in a corrupt state that is invading country's to steal their resources (I.E. oil) which are the same organizations they claim should only have them, but they didn't really do much then either. They'll get over it. Sure they live in two different universes, but they'll gravitate to whichever one benefits them more usually, and usually that's being pro-government.

Yea man, you make a lot of sense. Thanks!

[Suicidesoldier#1]

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

IMisterNinjaI

Suicidesoldier#1

The police only showed up in the way they did because over 15,000 armed militia members showed up.

And they didn't end up killing or shooting at anyone. It seems to me that the fears are cosmetic. The police didn't kill or grievously injure anyone in the Ferguson riots nor the Bundy Ranch situation, so the problems are being way, way overplayed.


The "look" scary; they wear "riot gear", which automatically makes them evil and even violent despite the fact they haven't done such things.

Well, it's very easy for a crowd who feed immediately into racism to look across the road, see the opposite race, and get mad. I know they're not evil, but everyone would want you to believe that they are... And like I said, it's very easy to feed into that belief.

Yes, which is why it's sad and tragic.

But I highly doubt it's some major police state thingamajig trying to eat babies for no reason, particularly when these types of incidents are rare in general.

Yea, I agree that it probably won't end in a Police State/Illuminati/NWO as everyone probably would like to be. I'm not even sure we'll even see a change In police protocol.

These ARE rare events indeed, but for how long? Racial tensions seem to be really high on this one, and a lot of people over social-media support Michael Brown as a martyr. Of course looking back on history, of minority Riots, and riots in general on U.S. soil, nothing has really come of it, and U.S. democracy still stands. Difference being this time is the social media aspect of it.

Most the people claiming that there is a new racist police state are the same people who want you to give all your money to the government for them to give you back healthcare, to give up all your guns and so on saying that we the citizens are the primary cause of crime, and so on and so forth. They'll probably realize the contradiction and go either or, and since all their policies are based on increased government control, likely go over to the other side.

I don't think all black people are really rioting or even support it. I doubt most of the Ferguson rioters are from Ferguson or even black. I think the racial tensions are also being exaggerated since many black people respect the police and the military and the government and don't believe in the deranged conspiracy stuff, especially over the shooting of one man. Sure, a lot of times the same people telling you guns are evil and only police and military should have them ALSO tell you we are in a corrupt state that is invading country's to steal their resources (I.E. oil) which are the same organizations they claim should only have them, but they didn't really do much then either. They'll get over it. Sure they live in two different universes, but they'll gravitate to whichever one benefits them more usually, and usually that's being pro-government.

Yea man, you make a lot of sense. Thanks!

blaugh

I usually try not to be so cynical but the democrats are kind of insane right now; but, they'll get over it. They'll at least become functional again once the fervor dies down or something new in the news pops up. 3nodding


I mean I don't really like Republicans much, but...