Feminism vs. Feminism: A Treatise on Feminism

[Ask Jappleack]

So collective feminism is just for pushing their limits, its sort of normal for this to occur but spoiling them wont do any good for anybody. That is assuming what you say is completely and wholely accurate of course.

[Where Pretty Lies Perish]

We Do Not Kneel

Where Pretty Lies Perish

We Do Not Kneel

Where Pretty Lies Perish

We Do Not Kneel

Where Pretty Lies Perish

Why should one be given a more severe punishment if his crime was done out of hatred for a group rather than hatred of an individual. The victim is affected equally, so the only other justification is to assert one vet of values over another under the threat of violence. Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

in the case of hate crimes, whole communities are victimized. it's not an assertion of one values voer another, it is punishing a crime based on its severity, which is what the law is supposed to do. it is a natural extension of the law.

No, in the case of hate crimes, the only ones victimized are the ones directly affected by the crime. To call all members of the group "victimized" is to devalue the word.

but you fail to take into account the clockwork eggs and their machinations.

what

I'm not sure how you think feminists are going to come screaming out of the Capitol Building with AK-47s, but it seems a bit of a wild fantasy.

Now, let me tell you a story about a camel...

When did I suggest such a thing?

[Where Pretty Lies Perish]

Riviera de la Mancha

I will give a more full reading of this later, but let me begin by saying that I already dislike it when people call something a 'treatise' when it clearly isn't.

ok?

[Where Pretty Lies Perish]

We Are Organisms

So collective feminism is just for pushing their limits, its sort of normal for this to occur but spoiling them wont do any good for anybody. That is assuming what you say is completely and wholely accurate of course.

No, they aren't pushing the limits of first-wave feminism, they are going in a completely different direction.

[Ask Jappleack]

Where Pretty Lies Perish

We Are Organisms

So collective feminism is just for pushing their limits, its sort of normal for this to occur but spoiling them wont do any good for anybody. That is assuming what you say is completely and wholely accurate of course.

No, they aren't pushing the limits of first-wave feminism, they are going in a completely different direction.

I dont think so. Its like there are two sisters who were under a very bossy parent who was being unfair, one sister fought for equality and then the father finally gave in because the wife asked him to or something or explained it, then the other sister is like HM I wonder how much I can get out of him, and tries to push for unfairness in her favor.

[Where Pretty Lies Perish]

We Are Organisms

Where Pretty Lies Perish

We Are Organisms

So collective feminism is just for pushing their limits, its sort of normal for this to occur but spoiling them wont do any good for anybody. That is assuming what you say is completely and wholely accurate of course.

No, they aren't pushing the limits of first-wave feminism, they are going in a completely different direction.

I dont think so. Its like there are two sisters who were under a very bossy parent who was being unfair, one sister fought for equality and then the father finally gave in because the wife asked him to or something or explained it, then the other sister is like HM I wonder how much I can get out of him, and tries to push for unfairness in her favor.

Yeah, if you are using a balance of power scale, you could say it was in the same direction.

I was thinking more of a dependence/independence scale.

[Bricked Up Mule]

I see nothing wrong with the forms of collective feminisism that you seem to dislike.
Collectivist Feminism:
-Ensuring favoritism for women in professions (affirmative action, quotas): This is not a matter of favoritism. This is put in place to counteract barriers placed by cultural ideas and biases of women in regards to some sectors of the working world. Areas such as construction and science sectors have problems with people hiring women due to ideas that women lack the physical strength or do not have the mindset equal to a mans. Of course this needs to be adjusted by changing statistics like the fact that women are now exceeding men in gaining college degrees should mean that there should not be any quota or action for general college admissions.
-Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men: It is true that women should not be set in such a light in general. If a woman commits spousal abuse she should face the same consequences as a man. On the other hand if a crime is committed against a woman she should not be given undo blame as a victim with arguments like she shouldn't have dressed that way or she knows how to push buttons.
-Bullying people who portray women in an allegedly negative light
-Supporting hate crime laws that create a tiered system of justice: I am on the fence on this one. Hate is wrong and any crime motivated by it should be punished. Such laws seem to be geared towards emphasizing how wrong misogyny.
-Supporting hate speech laws that effectively bar opponents from joining the debate: Hate speech laws really only keep people from inciting others to commit crimes. No argument that encourages illegal actions against others is valid anyways. It's not really a debate when either side is just spewing insults and ignorance.
-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)

[Bricked Up Mule]

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies): Abortions and birth control needs to be available to women as a matter of health. Abortions can be important to a woman whose health is endangered by a pregnancy or when the baby has already died or miscarried. No matter how you argue there are risks to any pregnancy many are minor but there are also some major ones that can result in permanant harm or death. Birth control can be taken for reasons other then to prevent pregnancy. Many women take the pill to alleviate PMS, cramping, hormonal imbalances, etc. Other forms of contraception are also performed for similar reasons. Giving women birth control is also smart financially for the government and insurance companies since it is far cheaper to pay out for the pill rather then pay for a pregnancy that was not wanted. Directly it is expensive in potential costs in emergency pregnancy care and children placed in government care to start wih.
As a matter of enabling women to have sex I would remind you that there are many drugs paid for by insurance companies that enable men to have sex like viagra.

[Robot Macai]

hahahalolwut

Where Pretty Lies Perish

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)

...

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)
So which is it: "I am women, hear me roar" or "I am needy, give me more"? Feminism was supposed to be about women kicking a** out on their own, without a need for the help of anyone else. Individualist feminism asked for the respect woman as hero earned. Collectivist feminism now asks for unearned respect, and free s**t.

Objection: "I have the right to do what I want with my body."
Not with my money.

you can either pay for abortions, or pay for welfare. pick your poison.

False dichotomy. We can pay for neither, and let the children women can't support on their own simply die.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

If only there were more individualist feminists. Then maybe I could use that title instead of egalitarian. emo

[Nero Lepus]

Jessi Danger

Where Pretty Lies Perish

Jessi Danger

Where Pretty Lies Perish

Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men

A point of defense for the collectivists, literally all people do this to everyone. In America it is popular to use trauma and injustice to trivialize everything and everyone.

Fair enough. It's just frustrating when they parrot "grrl power" bromides, and then play victim every time something doesn't go their way.

Well I'm speaking of the fact that society in general tends to trivialize people as being "poor unfortunate victims," especially when those people do things we don't approve of or like.

The best example is women in porn. Feminists and Social Conservative alike have set up the meme that women in porn must be poor unfortunate victims of some past trauma thus trivializing their life choices and allowing society to continue to maintain the idea that porn is bad and being in porn is bad, and thus nobody chooses it unless life circumstances force them to.

Really? Because the people in porn say differently.

[hahahalolwut]

Robot Macai

hahahalolwut

Where Pretty Lies Perish

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)

...

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)
So which is it: "I am women, hear me roar" or "I am needy, give me more"? Feminism was supposed to be about women kicking a** out on their own, without a need for the help of anyone else. Individualist feminism asked for the respect woman as hero earned. Collectivist feminism now asks for unearned respect, and free s**t.

Objection: "I have the right to do what I want with my body."
Not with my money.

you can either pay for abortions, or pay for welfare. pick your poison.

False dichotomy. We can pay for neither, and let the children women can't support on their own simply die.

we could, but good luck getting that through congress.

[Robot Macai]

hahahalolwut

Robot Macai

hahahalolwut

Where Pretty Lies Perish

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)

...

-Demanding that society pays for abortions or birth control (whether in the form of government or insurance companies)
So which is it: "I am women, hear me roar" or "I am needy, give me more"? Feminism was supposed to be about women kicking a** out on their own, without a need for the help of anyone else. Individualist feminism asked for the respect woman as hero earned. Collectivist feminism now asks for unearned respect, and free s**t.

Objection: "I have the right to do what I want with my body."
Not with my money.

you can either pay for abortions, or pay for welfare. pick your poison.

False dichotomy. We can pay for neither, and let the children women can't support on their own simply die.

we could, but good luck getting that through congress.

I wouldn't regard it so sarcastically. Isn't that basically what Republicans want?

[hahahalolwut]

Robot Macai

I wouldn't regard it so sarcastically. Isn't that basically what Republicans want?

idealogically? sure. but if they actually tried to remove the totality of welfare they'd get their s**t handed to them in the next election to the point that the democrats would have total control of the country, and they know it.

[Jessi Danger]

Judgmental Skull Crusher

Jessi Danger

Where Pretty Lies Perish

Jessi Danger

Where Pretty Lies Perish

Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men

A point of defense for the collectivists, literally all people do this to everyone. In America it is popular to use trauma and injustice to trivialize everything and everyone.

Fair enough. It's just frustrating when they parrot "grrl power" bromides, and then play victim every time something doesn't go their way.

Well I'm speaking of the fact that society in general tends to trivialize people as being "poor unfortunate victims," especially when those people do things we don't approve of or like.

The best example is women in porn. Feminists and Social Conservative alike have set up the meme that women in porn must be poor unfortunate victims of some past trauma thus trivializing their life choices and allowing society to continue to maintain the idea that porn is bad and being in porn is bad, and thus nobody chooses it unless life circumstances force them to.

Really? Because the people in porn say differently.

Yes, a few hated it, and others loved it.

You are aware there are more then one porn actress on this planet right? Shelley Lubben? Great good for her, she didn't like it and left.

On the other hand there are others out there. For example I am reminded of Sasha Grey, who was paraded around on the Tyra Banks show, they dressed her up to make her look different and try to imply that she was dumb, immature or had "issues," thus trivializing her decisions in life.