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Witty Lunatic

well, this exists
Where Pretty Lies Perish
Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

rofl

Government is always about encouraging one set of beliefs over another. The point of a government is that there is a given state with a certain set of laws. Furthermore, governments exists within a given cultural context where certain values are promoted over others, for the purpose of ensuring a stable government is maintained and a certain social environment is created.

You are a fish trying to swim on land here; you have no idea what you are talking about.
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish

Why should one be given a more severe punishment if his crime was done out of hatred for a group rather than hatred of an individual. The victim is affected equally, so the only other justification is to assert one vet of values over another under the threat of violence. Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

in the case of hate crimes, whole communities are victimized. it's not an assertion of one values voer another, it is punishing a crime based on its severity, which is what the law is supposed to do. it is a natural extension of the law.

No, in the case of hate crimes, the only ones victimized are the ones directly affected by the crime. To call all members of the group "victimized" is to devalue the word.
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish

Any nuance is inconsequential. .

and this is where i just leave you to your goosery. nuance is essentially what determines whether policy will succeed or fail. you cannot ignore the finer points of an issue and still manage it effectively. talking to you is pointless.
No, my point is that in the cases I mentioned, any manner of nuance is intolerably bad. I don't mind nuance in discussions of economics for example.

There can be no compromise on the issue of outlawing "hate speech" versus permitting all speech; to be in the middle is to side with evil. As John Galt said, "In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win."
We Do Not Kneel
hahahalolwut
We Do Not Kneel
and hate crimes are sentences based on intent and severity, which is the same distinction between, say, murder charges and manslaughter. stop trying to create an exception where none exists.


the difference between murder charges and manslaughter are that there is intent, not what kind. this is not relevant to hate crime legislation.

it is, because as i said to the other silly goose, it affects more than just the murdered.
Nope. It affects the other members of the group only to the extent that it offends them. The Offense Principle is not a valid one for a free society.
Celebrez la Folie
well, this exists
question
The Willow Of Darkness

Government is always about encouraging one set of beliefs over another. The point of a government is that there is a given state with a certain set of laws. Furthermore, governments exists within a given cultural context where certain values are promoted over others, for the purpose of ensuring a stable government is maintained and a certain social environment is created.

You are a fish trying to swim on land here; you have no idea what you are talking about.
Encouraging a general and universal set of principles, yes. Stealing is discouraged by government, but encouraging the value that stealing is wrong is permissible because it stabilizes society and it can be universally applied.

Stealing is stealing and all stealing is wrong. Sure, sometimes stealing of some form is permitted (or perpetrated) by government, but this is indicative of a failed state.

Hate crimes are a priori unequal treatment under the law. A crime is a crime. It is the victim who is entitled to retribution. The motivations of the criminal should be of little concern, unless perhaps it is discovered that he or she was incapable of acting rationally at the time of the crime (for what it's worth, I'm not a huge fan of the insanity defense).

As I've said before, all crimes not committed for monetary (or some similar material) gain are hate crimes. Their intent is to harm another for reasons of vengeance or sadism.

Committing a violent crime against someone is the worst thing you can do to a person. To suggest that this ultimate violation of human rights is somehow worse when the crime is committed because the criminal hated to group to which the criminal belonged is disgusting.


Yawns deeply
We Do Not Kneel
hahahalolwut
We Do Not Kneel
hahahalolwut

the specific motivation is irrelevant.

motivation is a huge part of sentencing. to say otherwise is pure ignorance.


yes. but right now it's entirely up to the discretion of the judge how it's factored in to sentencing. i want to leave it that way.

so what you're saying is it's fine to have a two-tiered system as long as the judge says so.


But are you suggesting perhaps a mandatory minimum sentencing for specific crimes?
Where Pretty Lies Perish
Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men


A point of defense for the collectivists, literally all people do this to everyone. In America it is popular to use trauma and injustice to trivialize everything and everyone.
Jessi Danger
Where Pretty Lies Perish
Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men


A point of defense for the collectivists, literally all people do this to everyone. In America it is popular to use trauma and injustice to trivialize everything and everyone.
Fair enough. It's just frustrating when they parrot "grrl power" bromides, and then play victim every time something doesn't go their way.
Where Pretty Lies Perish
Jessi Danger
Where Pretty Lies Perish
Portraying women as helpless victims in their dealings with men


A point of defense for the collectivists, literally all people do this to everyone. In America it is popular to use trauma and injustice to trivialize everything and everyone.
Fair enough. It's just frustrating when they parrot "grrl power" bromides, and then play victim every time something doesn't go their way.


Well I'm speaking of the fact that society in general tends to trivialize people as being "poor unfortunate victims," especially when those people do things we don't approve of or like.

The best example is women in porn. Feminists and Social Conservative alike have set up the meme that women in porn must be poor unfortunate victims of some past trauma thus trivializing their life choices and allowing society to continue to maintain the idea that porn is bad and being in porn is bad, and thus nobody chooses it unless life circumstances force them to.
Where Pretty Lies Perish
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish

Why should one be given a more severe punishment if his crime was done out of hatred for a group rather than hatred of an individual. The victim is affected equally, so the only other justification is to assert one vet of values over another under the threat of violence. Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

in the case of hate crimes, whole communities are victimized. it's not an assertion of one values voer another, it is punishing a crime based on its severity, which is what the law is supposed to do. it is a natural extension of the law.

No, in the case of hate crimes, the only ones victimized are the ones directly affected by the crime. To call all members of the group "victimized" is to devalue the word.

but you fail to take into account the clockwork eggs and their machinations.
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish

Why should one be given a more severe punishment if his crime was done out of hatred for a group rather than hatred of an individual. The victim is affected equally, so the only other justification is to assert one vet of values over another under the threat of violence. Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

in the case of hate crimes, whole communities are victimized. it's not an assertion of one values voer another, it is punishing a crime based on its severity, which is what the law is supposed to do. it is a natural extension of the law.

No, in the case of hate crimes, the only ones victimized are the ones directly affected by the crime. To call all members of the group "victimized" is to devalue the word.

but you fail to take into account the clockwork eggs and their machinations.
what
Where Pretty Lies Perish
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish
We Do Not Kneel
Where Pretty Lies Perish

Why should one be given a more severe punishment if his crime was done out of hatred for a group rather than hatred of an individual. The victim is affected equally, so the only other justification is to assert one vet of values over another under the threat of violence. Weren't liberals supposed to be against the government encouraging one set of beliefs over another? Or was that only with regard to Christianity?

in the case of hate crimes, whole communities are victimized. it's not an assertion of one values voer another, it is punishing a crime based on its severity, which is what the law is supposed to do. it is a natural extension of the law.

No, in the case of hate crimes, the only ones victimized are the ones directly affected by the crime. To call all members of the group "victimized" is to devalue the word.

but you fail to take into account the clockwork eggs and their machinations.
what

I'm not sure how you think feminists are going to come screaming out of the Capitol Building with AK-47s, but it seems a bit of a wild fantasy.

Now, let me tell you a story about a camel...
I will give a more full reading of this later, but let me begin by saying that I already dislike it when people call something a 'treatise' when it clearly isn't.

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