Fatass or Giant Prune: What's the Point?

[Stygian Soleil]

eikocarol212

Again, the weight loss itself is not the reason for living healthier, it's the factors that cause said weight loss (eating right, non-sedentary lifestyle, etc). Weight loss is but the symptom, not the cause.

You don't have sufficient proof to state this as a fact. I'm afraid the CDC disagrees with you.

[I got bored one day]

eikocarol212

It is a byproduct for some, but not for all. I mean one can lose weight by not eating anything but a piece of bread a day, others by simply increasing their activity. It is a byproduct, but it shouldn't be considered the ultimate byproduct of health. As the study said, just because you didn't lose weight doesn't mean you aren't healthy. It just means you didn't lose weight. The health benefits were STILL there, INDEPENDENT of weight loss.

I understand what you're trying to say but you really aren't saying it well. Yes, everything culminates and a proper weight is not a great indicator of perfect health, but alongside this you are arguing against something I don't think you agree with in the first place. The problem here is no one is fighting you, really. The point you brought up is something no one is contesting.

[eikocarol212]

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

Again, the weight loss itself is not the reason for living healthier, it's the factors that cause said weight loss (eating right, non-sedentary lifestyle, etc). Weight loss is but the symptom, not the cause.

You don't have sufficient proof to state this as a fact. I'm afraid the CDC disagrees with you.

On what demographic though? Does the CDC disagree with me on ALL people who are overweight? Or is it just for the morbidly obese folks everyone thinks of when we say the word "fat?" I'd like some clarification. As my link stated, those who didn't lose weight still had health benefits.

Death and Misery

I understand what you're trying to say but you really aren't saying it well. Yes, everything culminates and a proper weight is not a great indicator of perfect health, but alongside this you are arguing against something I don't think you agree with in the first place. The problem here is no one is fighting you, really. The point you brought up is something no one is contesting.

Meh, it's 2 am, and I'm burned out from school, so my logic is a bit iffy at the moment.

[Stygian Soleil]

eikocarol212

On what demographic though? Does the CDC disagree with me on ALL people who are overweight? I'd like some clarification. As my link stated, those who didn't lose weight still had health benefits.

The CDC has a great deal of proof that being overweight causes health problems.

[eikocarol212]

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

On what demographic though? Does the CDC disagree with me on ALL people who are overweight? I'd like some clarification. As my link stated, those who didn't lose weight still had health benefits.

The CDC has a great deal of proof that being overweight causes health problems.

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

[Stygian Soleil]

eikocarol212

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

Everything is clearly defined here.

[eikocarol212]

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

Everything is clearly defined here.

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

[I got bored one day]

eikocarol212

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

Everything is clearly defined here.

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Can we agree that 3% Increased Risk is unhealthier than 5%?

[eikocarol212]

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

Everything is clearly defined here.

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Can we agree that 3% Increased Risk is unhealthier than 5%?

If you mean that a 5% increased risk is unhealthier than 3% then yes.....I hope that's what you meant....

[I got bored one day]

eikocarol212

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

So being 5 pounds overweight causes health problems? 10? I'm trying to get a range here, dearie. Work with the sleep deprived fat girl....

Everything is clearly defined here.

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Can we agree that 3% Increased Risk is unhealthier than 5%?

If you mean that a 5% increased risk is unhealthier than 3% then yes.....I hope that's what you meant....

Haha, yes. That said, since you can agree, then you can agree that being closer to a healthier weight is better than being further, correct?

[eikocarol212]

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Stygian Soleil

Everything is clearly defined here.

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Can we agree that 3% Increased Risk is unhealthier than 5%?

If you mean that a 5% increased risk is unhealthier than 3% then yes.....I hope that's what you meant....

Haha, yes. That said, since you can agree, then you can agree that being closer to a healthier weight is better than being further, correct?

To an extent. Some people are NOT healthy at their "ideal weight" while some are. It depends on the body makeup and all that other fine jazz. Weight isn't a one size fits all glove for people. It varies a LOT.

And btw, I found a report backing me up on the whole not needing to lose weight to be healthier:HAES approach and the NIH

Quote:

"Increasing evidence supports the belief that diseases associated with obesity can be reversed or minimized through lifestyle changes, even without weight loss, and people can improve their health while remaining obese," says Bacon, who -- incidentally -- at 5 feet tall and 105 pounds has a low BMI of 20.5. For heavy people who have tried unsuccessfully to lose weight, a health-centered rather than a weight-centered approach may help them get healthy if not thin.

3nodding

[I got bored one day]

eikocarol212

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Death and Misery

eikocarol212

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:


Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Can we agree that 3% Increased Risk is unhealthier than 5%?

If you mean that a 5% increased risk is unhealthier than 3% then yes.....I hope that's what you meant....

Haha, yes. That said, since you can agree, then you can agree that being closer to a healthier weight is better than being further, correct?

To an extent. Some people are NOT healthy at their "ideal weight" while some are. It depends on the body makeup and all that other fine jazz. Weight isn't a one size fits all glove for people. It varies a LOT.

And btw, I found a report backing me up on the whole not needing to lose weight to be healthier:HAES approach and the NIH

Quote:

"Increasing evidence supports the belief that diseases associated with obesity can be reversed or minimized through lifestyle changes, even without weight loss, and people can improve their health while remaining obese," says Bacon, who -- incidentally -- at 5 feet tall and 105 pounds has a low BMI of 20.5. For heavy people who have tried unsuccessfully to lose weight, a health-centered rather than a weight-centered approach may help them get healthy if not thin.

3nodding

Your article: "In the overweight group, more than half (51.3%) were metabolically healthy; as were nearly a third (31.7%) of the obese group." If I can count that means that 48% of overweight people and 68% of obese people aren't on the road to glorious health."

The problem here is that Mr. Bacon and your statement are far too vague. No one is saying that other goals are bad, good health is ultimately the best goal of course, but on the contrary how many cases are actually reversed? The fact that it can be minimalized is going back to "trying is better than not trying", an obvious truth.

To be absolutely clear when I say "target weight" I mean a healthy weight for your body not an ideal weight based on the BMI scale.

[Stygian Soleil]

eikocarol212

Um....yeah...I'm gonna pull a Vixianna here....Increased RISK does NOT equal CAUSE. Seriously.

Quoting the CDC link you gave:

Quote:

Research has shown that as weight increases to reach the levels referred to as "overweight" and "obesity,"* the risks for the following conditions also increases:

Nowhere in that link does it say "Obesity CAUSES heart disease." That link needs to be renamed to RISKS not CAUSES. It's very misleading to the public and shows a bit of bias.

Anyways, it still doesn't refute my point in saying that the people in the study still got healthier even though they didn't lose the weight. Healthier habits are key. We focus on weight way too much for our own good.

Obesity isn't the cause of any and all health defects. Everyone knows that. However, being obese can cause health defects. If you're at higher risk for certain health conditions because you're overweight, that means that your excess adiposity is causing you health problems, because had you not been overweight, you may not have suffered those health defects.

While healthy habits may be more important than weight loss, that still does not discount the fact that being overweight makes you less healthy.

In other words, when comparing two people; level of activity, genetics, environment, and diet aside, a normal-weighted person is going to be healthier than an overweight person.

Also, as an addendum, healthy habits generally lead to fat loss, so it's a win/win.

[Hyperdryve]

Supa Beanie

Hyperdryve

There's overall health. There's feeling better and having more energy. Social confidence. No, maybe they will or will not look good without clothes on but we don't walk around naked all day. It can help people feel better about themselves and have more confidence in day to day life.

Besides, you got to figure they come up with new and improved medical procedures all the time. Maybe in a few years or more they will better be able to get rid of stretch marks and for cheaper. *shrug*

Don't make me laugh, social confidence my a**! The only reason it gives you social confidence is because of the fake perception that you have to be what people want you to be so that you can be socially acceptable. Being fat doesn't make you not have energy, it's lack of exercise, which does not go hand in hand with being overweight. The lack of energy comes from poor eating choices, lack of exercise, lack of healthy productive activity. It's a proven fact that people who have jobs, are more healthy than those who don't, not only because of physical activity but because of the sense of fulfillment and accomplishment they get from working and earning a paycheck. So you can get fulfillment and accomplishment which also can equal out to happiness just by having a job! The women who are house wives also get the same effect by cleaning their house and taking care of their family. If your weight determines who you are in society then screw society they're not worth the time or sweat it would take to get skinny just to fit in. Get a job, get some money, pay some bills, have real fulfillment and accomplishment and PURPOSE in life and be happy.

What gives a person social confidence is different for each person. If it's something they feel selfconscious about, which I assume at least some out there are, then yes it would improve THEIR self confidence. I'm not seeing the issue there.

Lack of energy thing I admit I was making assumptions there but I was imagining in my mind obese folk not just those a little overweight. Still, if one is healthy and overweight and then later healthy and skinny...I would still imagine with their health being the same simply having less weight would improve overall stamina. Gravity can be a b***h sometimes ya know...

Anyways I'm not on one side of the fence or the other on this topic. I was mostly just responding to the OP's comment of "what's the point" of doing this or that. I was just trying to give an example or two that might be reason enough for some people.

[Kaosgirl]

eikocarol212

Stygian Soleil

eikocarol212

Again, the weight loss itself is not the reason for living healthier, it's the factors that cause said weight loss (eating right, non-sedentary lifestyle, etc). Weight loss is but the symptom, not the cause.

You don't have sufficient proof to state this as a fact. I'm afraid the CDC disagrees with you.

On what demographic though? Does the CDC disagree with me on ALL people who are overweight? Or is it just for the morbidly obese folks everyone thinks of when we say the word "fat?" I'd like some clarification. As my link stated, those who didn't lose weight still had health benefits.

I'd also like to see some evidence that the CDC is relying on good data, and not just being mistakenly cited as an Infallible Authority when they could very well be flat-out wrong.