Fatass or Giant Prune: What's the Point?

[Stygian Soleil]

Kaosgirl

Lies and myths that people want to believe don't get exposed all that easily.

There's no practical reason why people would "want to believe" lies about fat being unhealthy. Even if there were, there are always tenacious people who want to reveal poor research and political plots.

Quote:

It does reduce your mortality rate, though:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606692519/abstract
(hint: this means "fatties" die less often than "skinny ********." Or even "healthy" weighted people.)

Shall I troll around for other studies with similar results? I can if you'd like.

The obesity paradox has various explanations. There is no causal relationship between excess adiposity and survival rates, just correlative.

[Kaosgirl]

Stygian Soleil

Kaosgirl

Lies and myths that people want to believe don't get exposed all that easily.

There's no practical reason why people would "want to believe" lies about fat being unhealthy.

ROFL!

Seriously?

Stygian Soleil

Even if there were, there are always tenacious people who want to reveal poor research and political plots.

And just look how must respect Gaia's resident example of that group gets...

Stygian Soleil

Quote:

It does reduce your mortality rate, though:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606692519/abstract
(hint: this means "fatties" die less often than "skinny ********." Or even "healthy" weighted people.)

Shall I troll around for other studies with similar results? I can if you'd like.

The obesity paradox has various explanations. There is no causal relationship between excess adiposity and survival rates, just correlative.

But what does that imply about alleged causal relationships between excess adiposity and mortality?

I've got another one for you too:
Hip Fat is Good For You.

[Stygian Soleil]

Kaosgirl

ROFL!

Seriously?

What, the media? Diet companies? What dreck are you looking to peddle that insinuates a conspiracy against fat people?

Quote:

And just look how must respect Gaia's resident example of that group gets...

From whom, me? Facts speak for themselves.

Quote:

But what does that imply about alleged causal relationships between excess adiposity and mortality?

Absolutely nothing, really.

Quote:

I've got another one for you too:
Hip Fat is Good For You.

I have never said that all fat is bad for you. This could be valid. It remains to be seen, because as clearly stated they don't understand the relevance of the results.

[Kaosgirl]

Stygian Soleil

Kaosgirl

ROFL!

Seriously?

What, the media? Diet companies? What dreck are you looking to peddle that insinuates a conspiracy against fat people?

"Conspiracy" implies deliberate intent. This is more 'accidental convergence.'

But you really don't have to look hard to see that most people out there only pay lip-service to the health ideal. It's all about the eye-candy. "Fatties might be healthy? Eww gross."

Then you've got a for-profit medical industry looking for new ways to sell services with low overhead. "Oh hay, snap diagnosis based on superficial data = more demand for product? I'm in!" Whether it's a new "healthy lifestyle" diet plan, or some surgeon looking to peddle gastric bypasses.

Stygian Soleil

Quote:

And just look how must respect Gaia's resident example of that group gets...

From whom, me? Facts speak for themselves.

Except when they need interpreting. But hey, we've got the CDC telling us how to interpret things, so anyone offering alternative ideas must be whacko.

Stygian Soleil

Quote:

But what does that imply about alleged causal relationships between excess adiposity and mortality?

Absolutely nothing, really.

Really? You're going to stretch "correlation does not imply causation" to the point of "negative correlation says absolutely nothing"?

Stygian Soleil

Quote:

I've got another one for you too:
Hip Fat is Good For You.

I have never said that all fat is bad for you.

What you have said seems to parse out that way more plausibly than it parses out any other way. If I'm in error, I think it's an understandable one.

[Kobanya]

eikocarol212

Vixianna

Including the stuff padding your organs and in your brain!!!! Right Eiko? Cause all fat be bad fat. razz

Damn straight girl. Make that deadly fat go away! Fat free is the way to be!!! 3nodding

Yay! I'm so happy you guys understand my cause. Now once I loose all that fat, I'll go tanning and club-hopping every night. And because I'm skinny, there won't be any negative consequences! biggrin biggrin biggrin

[Stygian Soleil]

Kaosgirl

"Conspiracy" implies deliberate intent. This is more 'accidental convergence.'

But you really don't have to look hard to see that most people out there only pay lip-service to the health ideal. It's all about the eye-candy. "Fatties might be healthy? Eww gross."

This is exactly the kind of attitude I'd expect from an insecure fat person. I see no evidence that people are disturbed by the idea that fat people might be healthy. In fact, I've never met anyone who thought people were inherently unhealthy because they were fat.

Quote:

Then you've got a for-profit medical industry looking for new ways to sell services with low overhead. "Oh hay, snap diagnosis based on superficial data = more demand for product? I'm in!" Whether it's a new "healthy lifestyle" diet plan, or some surgeon looking to peddle gastric bypasses.

I'm afraid that doesn't constitute enough political power to deliberately cover up flawed research, and research to the contrary under the auspices of the CDC, WHO and numerous other prominent health organizations. To insinuate so would be utterly ludicrous, but hey that seems to be the flavor of this movement.

Quote:

Except when they need interpreting. But hey, we've got the CDC telling us how to interpret things, so anyone offering alternative ideas must be whacko.

You're really verging on tinfoil hat, the government's after me territory here.

Quote:

Really? You're going to stretch "correlation does not imply causation" to the point of "negative correlation says absolutely nothing"?

What are you talking about? What I said was that the correlation between mortality and overweight and obesity can be explained otherwise, and since there's no causative element then there's no definitive reason to suggest being overweight or mildly obese will make you less likely to die from heart failure.

Quote:

What you have said seems to parse out that way more plausibly than it parses out any other way. If I'm in error, I think it's an understandable one.

What I've said is that having excess body fat (key word: excess) i.e. being fat, is not good for you.

[Vixianna]

Stygian Soleil

Kaosgirl

Lies and myths that people want to believe don't get exposed all that easily.

There's no practical reason why people would "want to believe" lies about fat being unhealthy. Even if there were, there are always tenacious people who want to reveal poor research and political plots.

Quote:

It does reduce your mortality rate, though:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606692519/abstract
(hint: this means "fatties" die less often than "skinny ********." Or even "healthy" weighted people.)

Shall I troll around for other studies with similar results? I can if you'd like.

The obesity paradox has various explanations. There is no causal relationship between excess adiposity and survival rates, just correlative.

The bold...No what do you think HAES is doing? That would be the exposures here. Also, there is a practical reason. It's called American culture, if someone can make something a moral failing in this country it will be shunned. Why? Because America is built on self-determinism, and any individual that is morally weak, weakens the whole fabric of our "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" country. Even if Fat is only neutral, when it is vindicated by authority, and vilified by the social standards of beauty, and connected to weakness, it's only natural in our society, that people would believe anything about fat being negative.

[Vixianna]

Stygian Soleil

The obesity paradox has various explanations. There is no causal relationship between excess adiposity and survival rates, just correlative.

Also it's interesting it's called a paradox, because it shows up in even the sickest patients with the weakest bodies. Those with heart, lung, and kidney disease, those will cancers, and liver problems. Either there's some individual factor for each of these different disorders,(rather needlessly complicated) OR there is something that is common and has been recorded consistently. They are fat. You would think sense there fat to "horribly" detrimental to their health they would kick the bucket sooner or something, but they don't. The only explanation I have heard is, people figuring that the "fatties" got better treatment, blatantly false from a proven fat bias and patient's own testimony all across this nation, OR the skinnier people have more serious diseases, which either means
1) They ARE more unhealthy than fat people, which I'm sure isn't your intention of saying,
2) They diseases are "natural" and a result of genetics, while the
fatties" diseases are "unnatural" and the result of the fat. However, there has been no demonstrated difference in the disease course and severity between them, other than fat folks surviving longer, AND I believe somewhere I saw their diseases are more severe from lack of follow-up care from multiple reasons, the fat bias for one, and belittlement and embarrassment for another. But they still live longer. I'd have to check on quality of life for you though.

OR There is something about the fat that helps an ill body stay stronger longer. If you can think of another reason please post it.

[Vixianna]

Kobanya

eikocarol212

Vixianna

Including the stuff padding your organs and in your brain!!!! Right Eiko? Cause all fat be bad fat. razz

Damn straight girl. Make that deadly fat go away! Fat free is the way to be!!! 3nodding

Yay! I'm so happy you guys understand my cause. Now once I loose all that fat, I'll go tanning and club-hopping every night. And because I'm skinny, there won't be any negative consequences! biggrin biggrin biggrin

Oh course not honey. Now munch on carrots and celery all day, and go run a few miles between meals.

[-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-]

i'm fat- 185 lbs.

I got stretch marks on my stomach and sides



>_>


I did not have these marks when I was skinny and 98 lbs

ergo they must be from the fat

[Vixianna]

Stygian Soleil

This is exactly the kind of attitude I'd expect from an insecure fat person. I see no evidence that people are disturbed by the idea that fat people might be healthy. In fact, I've never met anyone who thought people were inherently unhealthy because they were fat.

You are such a ******** liar you know that? Do I need to link to Sciamancer's thread about "why fat is deemed unattractive?" Causes there was plenty in there, and unless you didn't even peek inside, you would know she is telling the truth. That's almost a direct quote of some of those posters.

Stygian Soleil

What are you talking about? What I said was that the correlation between mortality and overweight and obesity can be explained otherwise, and since there's no causative element then there's no definitive reason to suggest being overweight or mildly obese will make you less likely to die from heart failure.

Unless you have another explanation yourself, or you know someone who does, stop discounting it. In other words, put up or shut up.

Stygian Soleil

What I've said is that having excess body fat (key word: excess) i.e. being fat, is not good for you.

Yes and what's excess for me isn't for you. How about we use actual measures of health, like blood tests, and percentage of body fat. I also think you missed the study I posted where men, Thin framed Korean men, with a BMI over 25, but not a body fat percentage over 25% had little or no heart problems. Other studies where they actually did tests to measure actual obesity, and not assumed obesity from BMI, have found the same results. Like the Osteoporosis study on black and white women, that concluded that even though the black women had higher BMI's, they DID NOT have higher levels of Obesity, and the differences were due to lean tissue increases between the two groups.(It was a minor finding tangent to what they were actually studying) So all of those studies that assume BMI automatically=actual obesity, their conclusions can be flawed. And lead to confusing conclusions counter to prevailing "wisdom" about fat, like the "Obesity Paradox".

[Vixianna]

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

i'm fat- 185 lbs.

I got stretch marks on my stomach and sides



>_>


I did not have these marks when I was skinny and 98 lbs

ergo they must be from the fat

Did you gain the weight really quickly? Cause yeah that ill do it, but what he's talking about is after you slim down, the stretch marks wont go away, and they are areas of skin that won't "shirk" back with you, leaving you with excess skin hanging off of you not filled with flesh. the "giant prune" part of the title.

[Michael Noire]

Vixianna

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

i'm fat- 185 lbs.

I got stretch marks on my stomach and sides



>_>


I did not have these marks when I was skinny and 98 lbs

ergo they must be from the fat

Did you gain the weight really quickly? Cause yeah that ill do it, but what he's talking about is after you slim down, the stretch marks wont go away, and they are areas of skin that won't "shirk" back with you, leaving you with excess skin hanging off of you not filled with flesh. the "giant prune" part of the title.

that's part of it, but even if the skin "shrinks" back into place, the stretched skin has no collagen underneath it and looks like you've been victimized by a wild animal from the Amazon jungle

[Irahatam]

Michael Noire

Some of you are skinny. Some of you were born skinny and stayed skinny. Some of you, are fat, or became fat after your metabolism slowed down, after you got pregnant, or after you moved to a city full of junk food.

Those of you who are skinny, are often directly or indirectly opposed to Fat people - like fat people aren't normal and need to lose weight to look like they belong. Kind of like in that Episode of Hell's kitchen where the guy is too fat to be permitted on the Helicopter ride (with several other people).

Now, what a lot of you who are fat don't know, and most of you who are skinny have probably forgotten, is something called Stretch marks. I did some checking, and they do not go away naturally. They cost upwards of $15,000 to remove with less than a good chance of success. Now some of you, who are fat, have probably been on several diets. You might have tried exercise, granola bars, yogurt, salads and lean meats. A few of you have actually figured out how to lose weight. What you aren't telling the rest of the fatties is itself more disgusting than a bucket of liposuctioned lard. You aren't telling them that even if they Do lose weight, they will be scarred for life. And the fatter they were, the more scars they will have.

Seriously, I have to ask at this juncture: What's the point?

Is weight loss - even the kind that reduces waste size, and builds muscle - is it worth it, when you will never be able to wear a swimsuit again? I put forward the idea that weight loss and dieting are largely pointless if your weight isn't going to kill you - because the stretch marks are going to look just as unpleasant to strangers as the fat would have been.

Why do you think fat people should still lose weight, if they are going to still look gross even after all the effort (such as the TV show "Biggest Loser)? Discuss.

So...we're suppose to lose weight so we can look good in a bathing suit instead of lose weight for our health now.
I wish they'd get it right for a change! gonk

[Nonesuch Solo]

Vixianna

Kobanya

eikocarol212

Vixianna

Including the stuff padding your organs and in your brain!!!! Right Eiko? Cause all fat be bad fat. razz

Damn straight girl. Make that deadly fat go away! Fat free is the way to be!!! 3nodding

Yay! I'm so happy you guys understand my cause. Now once I loose all that fat, I'll go tanning and club-hopping every night. And because I'm skinny, there won't be any negative consequences! biggrin biggrin biggrin

Oh course not honey. Now munch on carrots and celery all day, and go run a few miles between meals.

Well just so long as anytime she drinks, she drinks enough that she vomits. Cuz alcohol is high in calories and you gotta keep yourself thin!